Clinton Portis over Ladell Betts is a no brainer

[dgack]

Oh wait, never mind, I just saw your alias and realized I must have offended you because I didn't praise Sean Taylor enough. My bad. He had another outstanding game in what was clearly a Pro Bowl season (damn conspiracy) and it was all Ladell's fault.

Forget I said anything, how could I have known to whom I was speaking???

[SkinEmAll]

Our non existant defense gave up OVER 500 yds! Betts got mugged, he didnt LOSE the game. It was a great play by the defender. Fumble or no fumble it should not have come down to that play anyway. If Im not mistaken, thats the most yds our defense has given up since GW has been here and probaly for many yrs prior. Betts is a great, starting caliber RB. But his place here is at #2. It will be awesome to see CP run behind our line as they are obviously gelling as a unit and with the blocking schemes. We now have 2 RBs opponents have to respect and will give us even more threats next yr. Bottom line is our D once again did nothing to help us win. Yeah a Defensive stop in OT is nice, but when we score 31 pts, should we really be in OT?

[dgack]

Originally Posted by SkinEmAll

Yeah a Defensive stop in OT is nice, but when we score 31 pts, should we really be in OT?

Careful, you shouldn't "come in here throwing a couple of ill researched stats around" and "malign the D" like that. Someone's liable to talk facts with you and inform you of the error of your ways.

[SkinEmAll]

yeah It appears that way, I mean cmon wheres all the 'Marry' Christmas spirit?

[onlydarksets]

I think you guys are arguing over semantics. Betts blew a chance for the win, but he wasn't responsible for us losing the game. You really can't argue the first - he screwed up by not putting both hands on the ball. If he had had both hands on the ball and the defender still got it out, then I would say that Betts did everything he could have. However, he didn't cover up the ball when he felt contact, and that's basic skills in that situation (tied, driving for win). CP doesn't cough that one up, IMO.

That said, I agree that Betts didn't "cost us the game" in the greater sense. That's on the D.

[dmek25]

Originally Posted by dgack

Betts has fumbled two times more than CP did last year (5), and has lost exactly as many as CP did (2). BFD. The replay was fairly clear, and I don't know how you defend against that, a guy had one half of his body wrapped and punched the ball out with the other hand, away from anyone on our team who could have fallen on it. It happens.
This one is on Grilliamss and his guys.

first of all, if betts would have had BOTH hands on the ball, there is no fumble, and the skins probably win. with that out of the way, i did not blame betts for the loss. only stating, like i have in other threads, that betts seems like he is going to fumble on just about all of his touches. i dont care if you run for 10000 yards a game, if you fumble, you are worthless in this league

[MTK]

Portis over Betts was a no-brainer from the start.

[jdlea]

Posted the wrong stat here. He does have 5. Announcers during the game it was his sixth...strange.

[dgack]

Originally Posted by dmek25

i dont care if you run for 10000 yards a game, if you fumble, you are worthless in this league

Well, like I said in the other thread, that means there are a lot of worthless RB's starting in this league, then. Might as well just say LT and Portis are the only RB's who aren't worthless.

And Lee Suggs. He hasn't fumbled at all this year. That guy is golden.

[DiehardSkin88]

yea... Redskin, you don't know what you're talking about. If you ask me, that was one hell of a strip by chavous, not betts making a dumb play. I do agree that if he held onto the ball we probably would have won the game. But, without betts having the performance he had, the score would have been what? 17 to 31? Come on, he was not the direct cause for losing the game. Don't come up in here saying how betts sucks just because your ass is pissed of we lost the game...

[Pocket$ $traight]

Once again. Dgack you can argue how many yards were put up and everything else. It was a good strip blah blah blah.

Here is the bottom line. The team was in a position to win the game. Betts had the ball and knows that someone is going to try and strip the ball (that is no secret). He didn't make the play.


I AM TIRED OF EXCUSES. When you have a chance to seal the game, do it. It is that simple. Make the play.

Our team has been deficient in making plays this year that is why they are 5-10.

I don't care if the D gave up 6000 yards. If there are 2:00 left in the game and you have just broken into the secondary, hold onto the ball.

By the way, Taylor was embarrassed yesterday, that is fine. He also won three games for us this year. Without him, we are 2-13 and probably the most disappointing team of all time.

[Redskin]

Originally Posted by dgack

Okay then, let's talk facts, since all the other stats I posted are apparently not real facts, since you disagree with my conclusions.

Let's see... How do I blame Gregg Williams?

* 579 yards of offense allowed (Rams season high)
* 37 points allowed (2nd highest total Rams season, Detroit allowed 41)
* 25 first downs allowed
* 17 unanswered points allowed after holding a 14 point lead
* Allowed not only a 350 yard passer, but also an 150 yard rusher! Wow! Great defense!
* 1 OT period forced on the grace of an unlikely career long 52 yarder made by Suisham and an equally unlikely missed 41yarder by Jeff Wilkins.

Really, if you want to try and cast aspersions on my research, you ought to try bolstering your own arguments first. Of course the game would have been over had Betts held onto the ball. That's rather obvious. My point is that had the defense actually played like a pro football team rather than the Pop Warner crew we had out there today, Ladell's fumble would not have even occurred and if it did, it would not have cost us the game.

I love when a team plays poorly on one or both sides of the ball for an entire game and one guy takes the blame for making a mistake. How many blown plays did the secondary make today that lead DIRECTLY to points on the board for St. Louis? How many points did St. Louis score off Ladell's fumble, BTW?

Oh that's right, zero. Because our defense stopped them, right? Oh no, that's right, because a guy kicking 88% on the year missed a 40 yarder.

So, sure, Betts' fumble caused us to not ice the game. But it didn't put points on the board for St. Louis, and not because "that defense I've maligned" stopped them.

How close of a game would it have been without 129 yards and 2TD's from Betts today?

That was a first 40 yarder this year chief so hes not exactly an "automatic" kicker.

[SKINSnCANES]

Originally Posted by Grim21Reaper

Once again. Dgack you can argue how many yards were put up and everything else. It was a good strip blah blah blah.

Here is the bottom line. The team was in a position to win the game. Betts had the ball and knows that someone is going to try and strip the ball (that is no secret). He didn't make the play.


I AM TIRED OF EXCUSES. When you have a chance to seal the game, do it. It is that simple. Make the play.

Our team has been deficient in making plays this year that is why they are 5-10.

I don't care if the D gave up 6000 yards. If there are 2:00 left in the game and you have just broken into the secondary, hold onto the ball.

By the way, Taylor was embarrassed yesterday, that is fine. He also won three games for us this year. Without him, we are 2-13 and probably the most disappointing team of all time.

In the same argument that you said we lost because of Betts...you gave Taylor a get out of jail free card for giving up 3 touchdowns... Not sure how that works. If Betts doesnt fumble, and then we miss the field goal, is it the kickers fault we lost and still not the defense?

What about the defense in overtime when they let them score a TD?

my opininion is its a team sport, the whole team lost the game. you cant look at any one play because if another play had been different then that play might not matter. If we still have a two touchdown lead and were just running out the clock then it wouldnt have mattered that betts fumbled.

[Redskin]

Originally Posted by DiehardSkin88

yea... Redskin, you don't know what you're talking about. If you ask me, that was one hell of a strip by chavous, not betts making a dumb play. I do agree that if he held onto the ball we probably would have won the game. But, without betts having the performance he had, the score would have been what? 17 to 31? Come on, he was not the direct cause for losing the game. Don't come up in here saying how betts sucks just because your ass is pissed of we lost the game...

Errm can I get a fuck you? Read around before you post against me. K Thx. I have stated that the defense on the whole is the reason we lost but if i had to pick one play that cost us the game it was Betts Fumble, I dont know how you can argue that. Blaming the defense is almost like blaming the offense for not scoring enough points, they had oppertunities. A single play can change the game or end the game and that play was Betts' fumble, whether you like it or not if he holds onto that ball we win.

[wolfeskins]

Originally Posted by SKINSnCANES

In the same argument that you said we lost because of Betts...you gave Taylor a get out of jail free card for giving up 3 touchdowns... Not sure how that works. If Betts doesnt fumble, and then we miss the field goal, is it the kickers fault we lost and still not the defense?

What about the defense in overtime when they let them score a TD?

my opininion is its a team sport, the whole team lost the game. you cant look at any one play because if another play had been different then that play might not matter. If we still have a two touchdown lead and were just running out the clock then it wouldnt have mattered that betts fumbled.

i agree, the skins lost because they did not score as many points as the rams. one play does not win or lose a game, especially not a high scoring game.

looking at it from the rams side, i don't think that strip on betts won them the game, i would say steven jackson,issac bruce and mark bulger dominating our defense had more to do with it.