Second look at Ramsey

That Guy · 09-21-2004, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Good point. Tim Couch is no longer in the NFL. Cade McNown is longer in the NFL. Sometimes the pressure to produce immediately causes young QB's to digress or remain stagnant. Joey Harrington is leading the Lions. Carr is leading the Texans and Brady is commandeering his Patriots to a 18-0 winning streak and Ramsey is a work in progress. Is this what we want to settle for with all of the money we have spent?

hmm.. trent green... matt hasselbeck... they are lots of others, and all those guys you listed spent more than 1 offseason in their system before doing anything i believe.

That Guy · 09-21-2004, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Dude, Ramsey lost this game. He threw the first INT on the 7 yard. The pass was late, too short and no zip at all. The second INT I blame him for also. Coles wasn't within 10 ft. of the ball

umm... the score was 20-7 when he came in and 20-14 at the end... he didn't lose it, he just didn't win it... and ramsey threw to where coles should have been... thats how routes in the nfl work. You said he was held up before ramsey threw it, but unless you were there, i see no way from the tv angles you could have seen what coles was or wasn't doing when ramsey let go...

jdlea · 09-21-2004, 03:16 PM

Saying Ramsey lost the game is BS w/o Ramsey throwing the Skins wouldn't have been in it! Wack ass Brunell's arm got exposed in week 1. HE'S TOO OLD. Ramsey will grow out of pressing so much...there's no cure for the game passing you by. Brunell can't hack it, he plays scared. I can't remember if it was a play where Brunell fumbled (I think so) but he rolled out after a blitzer was PICKED UP by Clinton Portis, Brunell rolled right into a sack and I believe a turnover. Last week Brunell had at least 3 possessions end because he checked down and didn't go for the first down on third and long. Maybe taking a shot is better than throwing a 7 yard curl to Coles with 2 defenders on top of him as soon as he catches on a 3rd and 12 play.

In addition to his arm, he makes bad decisions. He made another hand off this week that he shouldn't have made. This one didn't result in a fumble, but when he's falling down and trying to hand the ball to Portis, he's essentially stripping him as soon as the ball gets there. Brunell is a mistake. They should let Ramsey learn.

Ramsey did make some horrible decisions against the Giants. However, had he not driven them for one score the Skins wouldn't have been in this game. Brunell wouldn't have done it. It's not in him anymore. I don't care how many picks he threw, if Ramsey plays he'll learn not to do it. They should go with Ramsey and leave him alone.

Everyone on this board calls Ramsey a "work in progress." That's fine. I'd like to point out that if the Redskins had any patience whatsoever he would be a great QB right now. Harrington and Carr are both playing well, they got to start from day 1. Ramsey has seen spot starting and a starting job that got him planted everytime they called a pass play. As far as his inability to call audibles in that system; take a look at the tape again Matty, everytime Brunell audibled the play materialized into nothing. Ramsey will be a good QB, he has better physical skills than any of the other 2 QB's he was drafted with, they just need to start him and not make him look over his shoulder. He's the better QB.

Scott · 09-21-2004, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SUNRA

Dude, Ramsey lost this game. He threw the first INT on the 7 yard. The pass was late, too short and no zip at all. The second INT I blame him for also. Coles wasn't within 10 ft. of the ball and Peterson had locked him up before Ramsey threw the ball. Ramsey was focused on just completing the ball to Coles and not throwing the ball away. The 3rd INT was the most dumb INT I've seen from Ramsey. He claimed there was pressure on him as he threw it. But if you review it, he rolled out to his right and tried to under throw the ball and have Gardner come back for it with double coverage? One great play, one stupid play. He should be moving along far better than this dude. What was training camp for?

The second interception was defensive holding....its called a timing route the CB saw it coming and had no other choice. Not even close to Ramseys fault...had coles gotten free and was able to finish his route you would be touting it as a well timed completion....

sportscurmudgeon · 09-21-2004, 04:10 PM

Patrick Ramsey did NOT lose the game on Sunday. Let's not get carried away here. That loss was a total team effort.

Patrick Ramsey did NOT look good in the game on Sunday. If you want to say that he had great footwork in the pocket and a timed release of the ball and is ready for his nomination to Canton Ohio, you are free to do so. You are also getting carried away in the other direction.

Gardner's drops were horrendous and did not help the Skins and made Ramsey's efforts less than wonderful. By the same token, Gardner's catch on Ramsey's "50 yard heave" was a circus catch. The ball was overthrown and Cardner put the Skins in a position to score with his extraordinary effort. It was not nearly enough.

What Ramsey lacks is consistency - same for Gardner. Is that lack of experience or lack of concentration or what? I don't read minds; I don't know. Here is what I do know. In September 2004, Patrick Ramsey is not capable of being the starting QB for an NFL football team that expects to go deep into the playoffs. Maybe a lightbulb will go off in his head and he'll "get it" all of a sudden and lead this team somewhere positive this year. But until I see on field evidence of that "got it" position, I'm not going to feel very confident if he as to start the next few games.

Kyle Boller is a second year QB with limited experience. He has played about as well as Ramsey has. Is anyone here ready to anoint Boller as a great QB yet? I didn't think so.

Marc Bulger has about the same experience base as Ramsey. Which one is better right now? Neither is star quality, but if you think Ramsey is better, you are deluding yourself.

Rex Grossman has significantly LESS experience than Ramsey. Who is the better starting QB FOR NEXT SUNDAY ?

How about AJ Feeley? I think I prefer Ramsey, but not by much?

Do not even put Ramsey in the same paragraph with Harrington or Carr as of September 2004. It makes no sense to do that.

And if you want to revel in the fact that Couch and McNown are out of the NFL (as is Akili Smith from that same draft), please do not forget to recall that Donovan McNabb and Duante Culpepper are still around and seem to have "gotten it" a whole lot sooner than Ramsey and those other guys. Or is someone here about to say that he'd rather have Ramsey over McNabb and/or Culpepper?

Hogskin · 09-21-2004, 05:01 PM

The play-by-play was interesting to read, but you could see a definite bias throughout it. One example: on one late throw, he said Ramsey double-clutched "due to pressure". Well I did not see it that way, and neither did Aikman who commented about his indecisiveness and the double-clutch. There are more like this, but no use dragging out details.

Bottom line is, we ALL hope Ramsey miraculously turns it around and becomes a stud - our QB of the future. The only difference is that some of use feel it has reached the point where it is an extremely remote possibility, and others of you feel he is just about there now.

As far as losing the game, the offense did it for sure. Ramsey played a big part, Gardner played a BIGGER part, and Portis/Brunell helped some. Now we gotta get ready to kick some cowboy ASS!!!!!!

bedlamVR · 09-21-2004, 05:04 PM

Culppepper has been though his growing pains but has been given time, McNabbs sucess is not based on his QB skills but the sucess of the team in general in my oppinion. He hasn't had alot of offensive tools but Feely took the keys to the Eagles and they hardly missed a beat a few years ago.

Look at the situation he was put into he starts his glittering NFL career as possible trade bait with the Bears then being mentored by Shane mathews and Dany W and inducted into the NFL under the toutelage of Steve Spurrier who changed QBs like his socks. The point of this... yes he should be further on his career but then his career could have been better thus far...

Hogskin · 09-21-2004, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bedlamVR

McNabbs sucess is not based on his QB skills but the sucess of the team in general in my oppinion.

That sounds like the Rush Limbaugh opinion (NOT referring to the racial aspect of it). The fact is, that the TEAM got better when McNABB arrived, not the reverse. His excellent presence in the pocket and running skills turned a less than average offense around.

Paintrain · 09-21-2004, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gmanc711

If we want to get technical, the score when Ramsey was in the game was Redskins 7 , Giants 0.

Ramsey entered the game on the 1st drive of the 2nd half. The halftime score was 20-7 Giants.

Gmanc711 · 09-21-2004, 05:47 PM

No I'm saying, If it were to be 0-0 when Ramsey entered the game... It was Redskins 7 Giants 0

That Guy · 09-21-2004, 06:12 PM

i used to think mcnabb was just another mediocre QB, but i've changed my opinion on that a bit

TO helps... he outplayed culpepper last night easily... but the eagles D is quite a bit better than the vikings D too...

McNabb wouldn't be at the top of my list, but he's definately be in the top 8 or so...

bedlamVR · 09-21-2004, 06:39 PM

No doubting the team got better when McNabb got there but he is a peice not the key, the team does not live through his physical talents. I cannot rember who he took over from but I seem to remember Pete ws thier starter for a while. McNabb is good don't get me wrong but he has a team, coaching staff and fan base that belive in him and he went some though some very rocky periods and you only have to look at his career compleation rate to wonder where he lies in notable mentions at the Qb position, but theEagles stook with him even after the booing he got from Rasicit bigoted fans they have up there in the City of brotherly love.

People argue the NFL is win now but without patience and giving players time to grow you never will win not now not tomorrow... rome was not built in a day

sportscurmudgeon · 09-21-2004, 07:01 PM

bedlamVR:

Two simple questions for you.

1. You are the Redskins GM. The Eagles call you and offer to trade Donovan McNabb for Patrick Ramsey even up. Do you tell them to pound sand up their butt or do you go to Joe Gibbs to see what he thinks about that?

2. Same scenario. The Vikes call and want to do the deal for Duante Culpepper even up. What do you do?

Here's a tougher one:

The Jaguars call and offer Leftwich for Ramsey even-up. Joe Gibbs asks your opinion; what do you tell him?

Hogskin · 09-21-2004, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bedlamVR

No doubting the team got better when McNabb got there but he is a peice not the key, the team does not live through his physical talents. I cannot rember who he took over from but I seem to remember Pete ws thier starter for a while.

You are way off on this one. As I said, the team got better when he arrived, and it appeared it was because of him. They were 3-13 in 1998 without him. He played less than half the time (mostly subbing) in 1999, and they were 5-11.

He started full time in 2000. They were 11-5 and made the playoffs - amazing turnaround. Then the next 3 years they went to the NFC championship. And all through that time, as Madden says, they have not had a #1 quality receiver. Their defense was great, and their offense went from horrible to good with McNabb as the catalyst. It should get VERY good now that they have a real #1 receiver.

BossHog · 09-21-2004, 07:38 PM

Hmmm. Some guys are willing to give Ramsey a chance, but no one is letting Gardner off the hook. Overall, it wasn't too bad a game. The score supported that.

09-21-2004, 04:10 PM	#20
sportscurmudgeon Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,159	Patrick Ramsey did NOT lose the game on Sunday. Let's not get carried away here. That loss was a total team effort. Patrick Ramsey did NOT look good in the game on Sunday. If you want to say that he had great footwork in the pocket and a timed release of the ball and is ready for his nomination to Canton Ohio, you are free to do so. You are also getting carried away in the other direction. Gardner's drops were horrendous and did not help the Skins and made Ramsey's efforts less than wonderful. By the same token, Gardner's catch on Ramsey's "50 yard heave" was a circus catch. The ball was overthrown and Cardner put the Skins in a position to score with his extraordinary effort. It was not nearly enough. What Ramsey lacks is consistency - same for Gardner. Is that lack of experience or lack of concentration or what? I don't read minds; I don't know. Here is what I do know. In September 2004, Patrick Ramsey is not capable of being the starting QB for an NFL football team that expects to go deep into the playoffs. Maybe a lightbulb will go off in his head and he'll "get it" all of a sudden and lead this team somewhere positive this year. But until I see on field evidence of that "got it" position, I'm not going to feel very confident if he as to start the next few games. Kyle Boller is a second year QB with limited experience. He has played about as well as Ramsey has. Is anyone here ready to anoint Boller as a great QB yet? I didn't think so. Marc Bulger has about the same experience base as Ramsey. Which one is better right now? Neither is star quality, but if you think Ramsey is better, you are deluding yourself. Rex Grossman has significantly LESS experience than Ramsey. Who is the better starting QB FOR NEXT SUNDAY ? How about AJ Feeley? I think I prefer Ramsey, but not by much? Do not even put Ramsey in the same paragraph with Harrington or Carr as of September 2004. It makes no sense to do that. And if you want to revel in the fact that Couch and McNown are out of the NFL (as is Akili Smith from that same draft), please do not forget to recall that Donovan McNabb and Duante Culpepper are still around and seem to have "gotten it" a whole lot sooner than Ramsey and those other guys. Or is someone here about to say that he'd rather have Ramsey over McNabb and/or Culpepper? __________________ The Sports Curmudgeon www.sportscurmudgeon.com But don't get me wrong, I love sports...

09-21-2004, 05:01 PM	#21
Hogskin Impact Rookie Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Hartselle, Alabama Age: 84 Posts: 659	The play-by-play was interesting to read, but you could see a definite bias throughout it. One example: on one late throw, he said Ramsey double-clutched "due to pressure". Well I did not see it that way, and neither did Aikman who commented about his indecisiveness and the double-clutch. There are more like this, but no use dragging out details. Bottom line is, we ALL hope Ramsey miraculously turns it around and becomes a stud - our QB of the future. The only difference is that some of use feel it has reached the point where it is an extremely remote possibility, and others of you feel he is just about there now. As far as losing the game, the offense did it for sure. Ramsey played a big part, Gardner played a BIGGER part, and Portis/Brunell helped some. Now we gotta get ready to kick some cowboy ASS!!!!!! __________________ John Shaffer National Fantasy Sports Leagues, Inc. Home of "The BEST Game In Town" since 1990

09-21-2004, 07:01 PM	#28
sportscurmudgeon Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,159	bedlamVR: Two simple questions for you. 1. You are the Redskins GM. The Eagles call you and offer to trade Donovan McNabb for Patrick Ramsey even up. Do you tell them to pound sand up their butt or do you go to Joe Gibbs to see what he thinks about that? 2. Same scenario. The Vikes call and want to do the deal for Duante Culpepper even up. What do you do? Here's a tougher one: The Jaguars call and offer Leftwich for Ramsey even-up. Joe Gibbs asks your opinion; what do you tell him? __________________ The Sports Curmudgeon www.sportscurmudgeon.com But don't get me wrong, I love sports...

09-21-2004, 03:16 PM	#18
jdlea Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arlington, VA Age: 41 Posts: 3,109	Saying Ramsey lost the game is BS w/o Ramsey throwing the Skins wouldn't have been in it! Wack ass Brunell's arm got exposed in week 1. HE'S TOO OLD. Ramsey will grow out of pressing so much...there's no cure for the game passing you by. Brunell can't hack it, he plays scared. I can't remember if it was a play where Brunell fumbled (I think so) but he rolled out after a blitzer was PICKED UP by Clinton Portis, Brunell rolled right into a sack and I believe a turnover. Last week Brunell had at least 3 possessions end because he checked down and didn't go for the first down on third and long. Maybe taking a shot is better than throwing a 7 yard curl to Coles with 2 defenders on top of him as soon as he catches on a 3rd and 12 play. In addition to his arm, he makes bad decisions. He made another hand off this week that he shouldn't have made. This one didn't result in a fumble, but when he's falling down and trying to hand the ball to Portis, he's essentially stripping him as soon as the ball gets there. Brunell is a mistake. They should let Ramsey learn. Ramsey did make some horrible decisions against the Giants. However, had he not driven them for one score the Skins wouldn't have been in this game. Brunell wouldn't have done it. It's not in him anymore. I don't care how many picks he threw, if Ramsey plays he'll learn not to do it. They should go with Ramsey and leave him alone. Everyone on this board calls Ramsey a "work in progress." That's fine. I'd like to point out that if the Redskins had any patience whatsoever he would be a great QB right now. Harrington and Carr are both playing well, they got to start from day 1. Ramsey has seen spot starting and a starting job that got him planted everytime they called a pass play. As far as his inability to call audibles in that system; take a look at the tape again Matty, everytime Brunell audibled the play materialized into nothing. Ramsey will be a good QB, he has better physical skills than any of the other 2 QB's he was drafted with, they just need to start him and not make him look over his shoulder. He's the better QB.

09-21-2004, 05:04 PM	#22
bedlamVR Special Teams Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 389	Culppepper has been though his growing pains but has been given time, McNabbs sucess is not based on his QB skills but the sucess of the team in general in my oppinion. He hasn't had alot of offensive tools but Feely took the keys to the Eagles and they hardly missed a beat a few years ago. Look at the situation he was put into he starts his glittering NFL career as possible trade bait with the Bears then being mentored by Shane mathews and Dany W and inducted into the NFL under the toutelage of Steve Spurrier who changed QBs like his socks. The point of this... yes he should be further on his career but then his career could have been better thus far...

09-21-2004, 05:47 PM	#25
Gmanc711 Thank You, Sean. Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Gaithersburg, MD Age: 39 Posts: 7,506	No I'm saying, If it were to be 0-0 when Ramsey entered the game... It was Redskins 7 Giants 0

09-21-2004, 06:12 PM	#26
That Guy Living Legend Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: VA Age: 42 Posts: 17,620	i used to think mcnabb was just another mediocre QB, but i've changed my opinion on that a bit TO helps... he outplayed culpepper last night easily... but the eagles D is quite a bit better than the vikings D too... McNabb wouldn't be at the top of my list, but he's definately be in the top 8 or so...

09-21-2004, 06:39 PM	#27
bedlamVR Special Teams Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 389	No doubting the team got better when McNabb got there but he is a peice not the key, the team does not live through his physical talents. I cannot rember who he took over from but I seem to remember Pete ws thier starter for a while. McNabb is good don't get me wrong but he has a team, coaching staff and fan base that belive in him and he went some though some very rocky periods and you only have to look at his career compleation rate to wonder where he lies in notable mentions at the Qb position, but theEagles stook with him even after the booing he got from Rasicit bigoted fans they have up there in the City of brotherly love. People argue the NFL is win now but without patience and giving players time to grow you never will win not now not tomorrow... rome was not built in a day

09-21-2004, 07:38 PM	#30
BossHog Registered User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Norfolk, Va Posts: 665	Hmmm. Some guys are willing to give Ramsey a chance, but no one is letting Gardner off the hook. Overall, it wasn't too bad a game. The score supported that.

Second look at Ramsey

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