Rule Clarification:

Daseal · 09-28-2004, 01:00 AM

I know there's some odd rule about field goals and time running out. Does that only apply before the half? For extra-points? Or did we miss an oppurtunity? Or am I crazy? Maybe if it's if time runs out but you still get out of bounds. Something like that.

jamf · 09-28-2004, 01:04 AM

if you score a touchdown while time ran out, you can still kick the extra point.

aehs77 · 09-28-2004, 01:23 AM

the game also cant end on a penalty so if pass interference had been called on the last play we would have had a shot at a field goal

sportscurmudgeon · 09-28-2004, 01:24 AM

Game cannot end on a DEFENSIVE penalty. Since it was Gardner who did the pushing off on the final play, even if a penalty had been called the game would still have been over.

BleedBurgundy · 09-28-2004, 01:32 AM

Anyone think that Roy Williams had a helmet to helmet hit on Gardner on the final play?

offiss · 09-28-2004, 03:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BleedBurgundy

Anyone think that Roy Williams had a helmet to helmet hit on Gardner on the final play?

You beat me to it BB, I was waiting for a flag on that, but considering the job the ref's did on us tonight, there's no way they would make that call, I missed the first half [bowling] but caught the highlight's, those pass interference call's, and none call's, were a joke, I also wanted a challenge on the pass play to bryant when he leaped over Smoot, it looked like he fell on the ball, then resecured it as he rolled over, but as usual our booth official Stevey Wonder didn't see it, like all the rest of the call's he's missed over the last 3 week's, Gibb's threw the flag on that option pass on his own, he said he didn't hear anything from the booth [ what a shock ] so he took a shot hoping they just didn't have the angle on the replay yet, Gardner great game, how much can we bet that he drop's at least 3 easy passes next week? He's not fooling me with tonight's performance

O-line I grade a C, fairly unimpressive, D- I will give a B, they still have to be more disiplined in their coverages.

Daseal · 09-28-2004, 07:47 AM

Sports: That was how the receivers played all game long, and you know it was. It's when a DB get's thrown to the ground that it becomes obvious. The pushoff was nothing out of the ordinary.

MTK · 09-28-2004, 08:23 AM

Yeah I didn't think Gardner's pushoff was a penalty with the way they were calling that game, especially not when WR's can toss the DB to the ground and not get flagged.

Skins1573 · 09-28-2004, 08:44 AM

Offiss, I disagree with your comment on Gardner. I think if you get him the ball early in the game and often things will happen. I think durning the giants game he wasn't thrown too until the 2nd quater. I don't here you saying anything about coles and the drops he had (not includeing the 1 R. Williams hit him hard, which i think was helmet to helmet) Your opinion, which is cool, and I just see diffrent on this one. Also I think we need to get J.Thrash in the game, especially on returns. I think morton isn't helping us in anyway, and I still think Thrash has what it takes and he is very stable on performing

offiss · 09-28-2004, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skins1573

Offiss, I disagree with your comment on Gardner. I think if you get him the ball early in the game and often things will happen. I think durning the giants game he wasn't thrown too until the 2nd quater. I don't here you saying anything about coles and the drops he had (not includeing the 1 R. Williams hit him hard, which i think was helmet to helmet) Your opinion, which is cool, and I just see diffrent on this one. Also I think we need to get J.Thrash in the game, especially on returns. I think morton isn't helping us in anyway, and I still think Thrash has what it takes and he is very stable on performing

As I said, I missed the first half, so I didn't see any of coles drop's, but the fact is, one has nothing to do with the other, how many ball's did Coles drop last year? I can't remember many, and I don't remember him killing us with stupid penalties, time and again either, if you wan't to crown Gardner all pro after 1 game, go ahead, I know better, Gardner has remained in the starting lineup for 1 reason, he has tremendous potential, but petential as parcell's say's, mean's you ain't done nothing yet, rest assured I route for Gardner to reach the potential we all know he posesses, but until he does it on a consistant basis, where we know we can rely on him to make the big play, as well as the little play, I am not changing my stance, the little girl with the curl has burned us to many times.

SmootSmack · 09-28-2004, 07:24 PM

I think Michaels and Madden were saying yesterday that the helmet to helmet hit was valid because by then Gardner was a runner, not a receiver so helmet to helmet is allowed. First I'd heard of that rule

Hogskin · 09-28-2004, 07:28 PM

I could be wrong, but I sure thought helmet-to-helmet penalties only applied to hits on the QB. They have a LOT of special rules for the QB, because they see him as a sitting duck.

AnonEmouse · 09-28-2004, 07:43 PM

First I'd point out Coles dislocated his finger on one of his drops and popped it back in (with a little help) then went out there and carried on playing (according to JG's press conference). Whilst maybe not a great idea, considering he dropped at least one more pass after that, I have to give him respect for his toughness. I've seen guys come off the field with dislocations first hand and believe me it can have an effect on the sideline seeing a guy come off with his hand looking like a swiss army knife! Almost made me sick the one time.

Second I think the helmet to helmet thing needs clarifying. As I understand it there are 3 situations a player gets called for helmet contact:
1) Spearing - using the crown of the helmet to inflict a hit. This is both stupid and dangerous for both parties, hence the rule (and fines).
2) Deliberate helmet to helmet contact with a QB, regardless of the manner of the tackle.
3) Deliberate helmet to helmet contact with no attempt to make an arm tackle (i.e. leading with your head).

None of these apply as I saw it to Gardners last catch as the defenders were attempting to tackle him. The helmet to helmet was more incidental than intended.

Hogskin · 09-28-2004, 10:52 PM

Thanks for the explanation, Mouse. Both 1 & 3 sound like spearing. So I guess the QB DOES get special consideration on that.

skinsfanthru&thru · 09-28-2004, 11:33 PM

I feel kinda iffy about that last hit by williams cuz it wasn't terribly blatant but on the other hand he could have easily had a personal foul for a helmet to helmet hit or launching himself (atleast I think that's still a foul.) I just wish the last pass had been a little more outside like that 49 yard connection on the previous drive and that way gardner could have fallen out of bounds and stopped the clock. All that being said it was the combination of 90% bad officiating and 10% bad play calling/clock management. But after the teams performance against one of the top rated defenses in the league, I am starting to have some faith in our offense coming together sooner rather than later.

09-28-2004, 01:00 AM	#1
Daseal Puppy Kicker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arlington, Virginia Age: 42 Posts: 8,341	Rule Clarification: I know there's some odd rule about field goals and time running out. Does that only apply before the half? For extra-points? Or did we miss an oppurtunity? Or am I crazy? Maybe if it's if time runs out but you still get out of bounds. Something like that.

09-28-2004, 01:24 AM	#4
sportscurmudgeon Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,159	Game cannot end on a DEFENSIVE penalty. Since it was Gardner who did the pushing off on the final play, even if a penalty had been called the game would still have been over. __________________ The Sports Curmudgeon www.sportscurmudgeon.com But don't get me wrong, I love sports...

09-28-2004, 07:24 PM	#11
SmootSmack Uncle Phil Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 45,256	I think Michaels and Madden were saying yesterday that the helmet to helmet hit was valid because by then Gardner was a runner, not a receiver so helmet to helmet is allowed. First I'd heard of that rule __________________ You're So Vain...You Probably Think This Sig Is About You

09-28-2004, 07:28 PM	#12
Hogskin Impact Rookie Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Hartselle, Alabama Age: 84 Posts: 659	I could be wrong, but I sure thought helmet-to-helmet penalties only applied to hits on the QB. They have a LOT of special rules for the QB, because they see him as a sitting duck. __________________ John Shaffer National Fantasy Sports Leagues, Inc. Home of "The BEST Game In Town" since 1990

09-28-2004, 10:52 PM	#14
Hogskin Impact Rookie Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Hartselle, Alabama Age: 84 Posts: 659	Thanks for the explanation, Mouse. Both 1 & 3 sound like spearing. So I guess the QB DOES get special consideration on that. __________________ John Shaffer National Fantasy Sports Leagues, Inc. Home of "The BEST Game In Town" since 1990

09-28-2004, 01:04 AM	#2
jamf Pro Bowl Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: San Diego Ca Posts: 5,348	if you score a touchdown while time ran out, you can still kick the extra point.

09-28-2004, 01:23 AM	#3
aehs77 Special Teams Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: silver spring Age: 40 Posts: 486	the game also cant end on a penalty so if pass interference had been called on the last play we would have had a shot at a field goal

09-28-2004, 01:32 AM	#5
BleedBurgundy Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 4,471	Anyone think that Roy Williams had a helmet to helmet hit on Gardner on the final play?

09-28-2004, 07:47 AM	#7
Daseal Puppy Kicker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arlington, Virginia Age: 42 Posts: 8,341	Sports: That was how the receivers played all game long, and you know it was. It's when a DB get's thrown to the ground that it becomes obvious. The pushoff was nothing out of the ordinary.

09-28-2004, 08:23 AM	#8
MTK \m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 52 Posts: 99,832	Yeah I didn't think Gardner's pushoff was a penalty with the way they were calling that game, especially not when WR's can toss the DB to the ground and not get flagged.

09-28-2004, 08:44 AM	#9
Skins1573 Camp Scrub Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 24	Offiss, I disagree with your comment on Gardner. I think if you get him the ball early in the game and often things will happen. I think durning the giants game he wasn't thrown too until the 2nd quater. I don't here you saying anything about coles and the drops he had (not includeing the 1 R. Williams hit him hard, which i think was helmet to helmet) Your opinion, which is cool, and I just see diffrent on this one. Also I think we need to get J.Thrash in the game, especially on returns. I think morton isn't helping us in anyway, and I still think Thrash has what it takes and he is very stable on performing

09-28-2004, 07:43 PM	#13
AnonEmouse Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: UK Age: 59 Posts: 2,643	First I'd point out Coles dislocated his finger on one of his drops and popped it back in (with a little help) then went out there and carried on playing (according to JG's press conference). Whilst maybe not a great idea, considering he dropped at least one more pass after that, I have to give him respect for his toughness. I've seen guys come off the field with dislocations first hand and believe me it can have an effect on the sideline seeing a guy come off with his hand looking like a swiss army knife! Almost made me sick the one time. Second I think the helmet to helmet thing needs clarifying. As I understand it there are 3 situations a player gets called for helmet contact: 1) Spearing - using the crown of the helmet to inflict a hit. This is both stupid and dangerous for both parties, hence the rule (and fines). 2) Deliberate helmet to helmet contact with a QB, regardless of the manner of the tackle. 3) Deliberate helmet to helmet contact with no attempt to make an arm tackle (i.e. leading with your head). None of these apply as I saw it to Gardners last catch as the defenders were attempting to tackle him. The helmet to helmet was more incidental than intended.

09-28-2004, 11:33 PM	#15
skinsfanthru&thru Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Richmond, VA Age: 45 Posts: 3,814	I feel kinda iffy about that last hit by williams cuz it wasn't terribly blatant but on the other hand he could have easily had a personal foul for a helmet to helmet hit or launching himself (atleast I think that's still a foul.) I just wish the last pass had been a little more outside like that 49 yard connection on the previous drive and that way gardner could have fallen out of bounds and stopped the clock. All that being said it was the combination of 90% bad officiating and 10% bad play calling/clock management. But after the teams performance against one of the top rated defenses in the league, I am starting to have some faith in our offense coming together sooner rather than later.

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