How will you measure success?

[GTripp0012]

It's not like the shots downfield didn't happen, and often, it's that after Week 8, we just never connected on one. Which is pathetic. If Moss is your big play guy, and he has no big plays over three months (Lions defense notwithstanding), he's not good enough for that role.

[AnimateYYZ]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

It's not like the shots downfield didn't happen, and often, it's that after Week 8, we just never connected on one. Which is pathetic. If Moss is your big play guy, and he has no big plays over three months (Lions defense notwithstanding), he's not good enough for that role.

No question. It's obvious that WR is one of the weaker positions on the team. I'm still glad we never made that trade for Ocho Cinco, though.

Also, It seems teams would roll coverage to Moss a lot because there was no other deep threat.

[SirClintonPortis]

I think that for Campbell statistically, he should have around 20 touchdowns. Many of the past WCO QBs(Favre, McNabb, Cutler) had ~20 TD seasons in their second years. Of course if he gets screwed over by injuries or the drafted pass catchers still not getting it, it wouldn't be surprising to not see those type of numbers. Yardage-wise, a 200-400 yard spike should be sufficient if special teams improves and the defense gets more turnovers. If either Kelly or Thomas get on the field and play with consistency, a 600 yard spike to his yardage stat is not out of the question.
His Yards per attempt needs to break 6.8, preferably 7.0.

[warriorzpath]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

It's not like the shots downfield didn't happen, and often, it's that after Week 8, we just never connected on one. Which is pathetic. If Moss is your big play guy, and he has no big plays over three months (Lions defense notwithstanding), he's not good enough for that role.

Moss is not the problem. It's the lack of other wideouts that do not contribute. Moss produces plays out of nothing. He has made mistakes like dropping a few, but I believe most of the time, it's not a lack of skill or effort - it's a lack of focus because he tries too hard.

The more Mosses on the redskins, the better.

[GMScud]

For me, success from these guy will be measured in both tangibles and intangibles.

Jason Campbell
-Tangible: 3500+ yds, 20+ TDs, 10 or less INTs, a rating in the high 80s or better. How about a few hundred rushing yards? We saw late in the season how valuable an asset his legs can be.
-Intangible: As someone mentioned earlier, I'd like to see him step up and become THE leader of the team. I don't need him to be all rah-rah, but maybe a few late game rallies and a total command of the offense would be great. How will he turn the trade speculation into fuel for performance?

Devin Thomas
-Tangible: In the neighborhood of 30 catches, and 3-5 TDs. Also, I'd like to see signs of him becoming a deep threat. He's got the speed for sure. Unless he or Kelly overtake ARE for the #2, it's hard to expect more than 30 catches with two WRs and a TE in front of him as Campbell's go-to guys.
-Intangible: Work ethic and playbook knowledge. He needs to work as hard or harder than anyone on our offense to show he cares and belongs. Maturity, Devin. Let's see it.

Malcolm Kelly
-Tangible: See Devin Thomas. The exception being, rather than him develop as a deep threat, I'd like to see him develop as a red-zone threat. Nothing would make me happier than to see him catch some jump balls or fade routes in the end-zone a la Plaxico and Fitzgerald.
-Intangible: Don't know if this falls in this category, but HEALTH. I hope the knee issues are behind him. Unfortunately I doubt it.

Big Albert
-Tangible: If Greg Blache allows him to freelance like the Titans did, I see no reason why we shouldn't get a monster season out of Haynesworth. I think Blache already said he would let him do his thing, which is a positive.
-Intangible: How will he play now that he got his gigantic payday? He's saying all the right things. Let's see if he backs it up on the field. For the record I think he will.

D.Hall
-Tangible: Hall is paid like a shut-down corner. He needs to perform like one. I want to see him lock down our opponents #1 WRs. His style is a great fit for Blache's scheme. He played well for us last year. Keep it up and he'll be damn good for us. And teach Carlos some ball skills, would ya?
-Intangible: Character. He was a model citizen last year for us while knowing a big day was on the line. Now that he's got his money, will he become a malcontent?
------

I know it's not part of the original post, but obviously a big measure of the Redskins' 2009 success will be O-line. They need to stay healthy. That's numero uno for them.

[The Goat]

Great thread in general and I see the wisdom of GM's words: just a couple comments.

Originally Posted by GMScud

For me, success from these guy will be measured in both tangibles and intangibles.

Jason Campbell
-Tangible: 3500+ yds, 20+ TDs, 10 or less INTs, a rating in the high 80s or better. How about a few hundred rushing yards? We saw late in the season how valuable an asset his legs can be.
-Intangible: As someone mentioned earlier, I'd like to see him step up and become THE leader of the team. I don't need him to be all rah-rah, but maybe a few late game rallies and a total command of the offense would be great. How will he turn the trade speculation into fuel for performance?

I think the only legit criticisms of JC are his tendency to lock on a receiver when he's short on time...given time he scans the field pretty well. Well the WCO requires quick timing much of the time so he needs to scan faster and decide quicker on maybe half(?) the pass plays we run. That said...Jason is not the worry IMO if the o-line steps up and our WRs do their jobs

Originally Posted by GMScud

Devin Thomas
-Tangible: In the neighborhood of 30 catches, and 3-5 TDs. Also, I'd like to see signs of him becoming a deep threat. He's got the speed for sure. Unless he or Kelly overtake ARE for the #2, it's hard to expect more than 30 catches with two WRs and a TE in front of him as Campbell's go-to guys.
-Intangible: Work ethic and playbook knowledge. He needs to work as hard or harder than anyone on our offense to show he cares and belongs. Maturity, Devin. Let's see it.

While DT needs to bone up on the playbook and his routes I also think Zorn needs to design plays to get Devin the ball early and often. DT seems like an emotional player...a guy who will have a great game when you get him rolling so Zorn needs to get him rolling early!

Originally Posted by GMScud

Malcolm Kelly
-Tangible: See Devin Thomas. The exception being, rather than him develop as a deep threat, I'd like to see him develop as a red-zone threat. Nothing would make me happier than to see him catch some jump balls or fade routes in the end-zone a la Plaxico and Fitzgerald.
-Intangible: Don't know if this falls in this category, but HEALTH. I hope the knee issues are behind him. Unfortunately I doubt it.

Kelly's progress has as much to do w/ perception as reality beyond the need for him to stay healthy. He's so tall and at least in college had great hands...so it won't take more than a few 1st down catches and TDs before teams start to key in on him, which opens things up for everyone else. I'm not looking for Kelly to be the #1 guy, but for him to punish defenses that don't treat him like one.

Originally Posted by GMScud

Big Albert
-Tangible: If Greg Blache allows him to freelance like the Titans did, I see no reason why we shouldn't get a monster season out of Haynesworth. I think Blache already said he would let him do his thing, which is a positive.
-Intangible: How will he play now that he got his gigantic payday? He's saying all the right things. Let's see if he backs it up on the field. For the record I think he will.

There can't be even the slightest sign Albert mails it in...not even in one game. Second, he needs to utterly take over a few games this year, where he punishes the QB early and therefor the o-line has to double and triple team him the rest of the game so our other guys can wreak havoc in the backfield. Carter is a smart cat...i bet anything he's working harder than ever to button down technique so as to capitalize on Al's presence. Therefor Al will be a success if he takes over a few games and AC breaks a dozen sacks on the season. Personally I won't be surprised if Carter goes nuts and has 15 or 16.

Originally Posted by GMScud

D.Hall
-Tangible: Hall is paid like a shut-down corner. He needs to perform like one. I want to see him lock down our opponents #1 WRs. His style is a great fit for Blache's scheme. He played well for us last year. Keep it up and he'll be damn good for us. And teach Carlos some ball skills, would ya?
-Intangible: Character. He was a model citizen last year for us while knowing a big day was on the line. Now that he's got his money, will he become a malcontent?

Similar to big Al, we must see Hall literally take over a few games. There ought to be gamedays w/ multiple INTs and his receiver completely shutdown.

...generally I expect our secondary to "look" better this season because of the upgrades to our d-line. I think even Smooter has a rebound here (as a nickel ).

[GusFrerotte]

JC- 3000-3500 yards passing 35 TD passes 15-17 INTS and I would be happy for sure

THe young WR's getting more than one grab each game and both netting 400-600 yards in receiving yards for the season.

Haynesworth- For what we have paid him, anything less than the NFL sack leader and a top 10 finish in tackles for loss will be unacceptable.

My expectations are rather high, but if the team is to be a winner a go deep in the playoffs this is what in my mind needs to hapen with regards to individual performances, especially with JC and his young WR's. Our vet WR's, with the exception of Moss, just plain suck.

[GusFrerotte]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

It's not like the shots downfield didn't happen, and often, it's that after Week 8, we just never connected on one. Which is pathetic. If Moss is your big play guy, and he has no big plays over three months (Lions defense notwithstanding), he's not good enough for that role.

Moss is a smurf, and he is aging. The rooks need to step it up. Of the all the guys mentioned they will be the most important keys to the teams overall sucess.

[sportscurmudgeon]

BrudLee got it right.

None of the other stats matter even a whit unless the team makes the playoffs.

Over and out...

[RedskinMike]

Originally Posted by GusFrerotte

JC- 3000-3500 yards passing 35 TD passes 15-17 INTS and I would be happy for sure

THe young WR's getting more than one grab each game and both netting 400-600 yards in receiving yards for the season.

Haynesworth- For what we have paid him, anything less than the NFL sack leader and a top 10 finish in tackles for loss will be unacceptable.

My expectations are rather high, but if the team is to be a winner a go deep in the playoffs this is what in my mind needs to hapen with regards to individual performances, especially with JC and his young WR's. Our vet WR's, with the exception of Moss, just plain suck.

Haynesworth will never be the nfl sack leader that is not what he does.

[AnimateYYZ]

Originally Posted by GusFrerotte

JC- 3000-3500 yards passing 35 TD passes 15-17 INTS and I would be happy for sure

THe young WR's getting more than one grab each game and both netting 400-600 yards in receiving yards for the season.

I would love to see JC throw for 35 TD's, but we'll probably need to see a lot more than 400-600 yards between Thomas and Kelly in order for that to happen.

Haynesworth- For what we have paid him, anything less than the NFL sack leader and a top 10 finish in tackles for loss will be unacceptable.

My expectations are rather high, but if the team is to be a winner a go deep in the playoffs this is what in my mind needs to hapen with regards to individual performances, especially with JC and his young WR's. Our vet WR's, with the exception of Moss, just plain suck.

Most of what AH will contribute won't show up in the stat columns.

[GusFrerotte]

Yeah I should have put 30 not 35 TDs for JC. Haynesworth's goals were sort of a joke, but we did overpay the dude, so he better give us a shitload of sacks or forced fumbles. I don't care what sport you are in, one man does not garner a $100 million contract. As for the rooks, they both could have say 500 yards receiving with JC having 30 TDs.

[MTK]

AH is not going to lead the league in sacks. To expect that is simply unrealistic.

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

AH is not going to lead the league in sacks. To expect that is simply unrealistic.

Especially with the 3-4 guys racking up around 16 a year. 8.5 sacks for a DT is nothing short of amazing. I remember back in my high school days I was an undersized Nose Tackle (very undersized as I was a converted LB) and getting to the QB was a pain in the butt compared to coming off the edge or blitzing from a LB spot.

Blache would never have me in his system because I was always to obcessed with getting to the QB

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

AH is not going to lead the league in sacks. To expect that is simply unrealistic.

No doubt...but he should lead all DTs in sacks to justify his payday. And he needs to literally take a few games over...sacks early on that force the opposing offense to keep dbl or trpl teams on him so our other guys can punish the QB. I wonder if Blache will finally get some effective pressure from blitzing LBs/safeties w/ Al getting doubled and tripled?

...another reason to get excited about Rey , his pursuit of QBs is f'n scary.