5 Ala. officers fired for beating caught on tape

[dmek25]

there is no way in hell i want ANY American tortured. that's one of the biggest reasons im against it. that, and trying to uphold the stature of our country being a leader, not a follower. which usually means doing the right thing. if the Bush administration felt it was the right thing, then so be it. but if Mr. Obama is against it, then make sure everyone knows how he stands. no need to go thru all of this bull crap in the media

[EARTHQUAKE2689]

I not for or against it, but I have no problem with what happened to that guy.

[Missin21]

Originally Posted by dmek25

those cops that finally caught up with him weren't looking for any answers. they were pissed. and standing up for one of their own. if that guy had shot a family member, how would you have handled it?

You know what? It doesn't matter how I or any other NON-police officer would have handled those situations. Police are supposed to SET THE EXAMPLE & not allow their emotions to take control of them. I don't care if the guy ran over a dozen cops, they are not supposed to react by beating someone who is already prone. That is not part of their training. They are supposed to be better then that, not stoop to the criminals' level & act like thugs with badges.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by Missin21

You know what? It doesn't matter how I or any other NON-police officer would have handled those situations. Police are supposed to SET THE EXAMPLE & not allow their emotions to take control of them. I don't care if the guy ran over a dozen cops, they are not supposed to react by beating someone who is already prone. That is not part of their training. They are supposed to be better then that, not stoop to the criminals' level & act like thugs with badges.

You don't know what it's like to be them. Don't try to demonize them cause you had a bad experience. Police do a GREAT job 99%+ of the time, even if you don't agree with what happened, you shouldn't lump all the police together due to your own biast opinion.
Tell you what, go sit down with a few off duty cops and have them tell you some stories of what they go through on a daily basis and how they always hold their temper. Listen really close to their stories. They are amazing people to put up with what they put up with. So if occasionally there is some moron that tries to run down cops, or put their life in jeapordy, I will certainly look the other way and give them the benefit of the doubt.
I certainly hope no one holds you to your lofty standards for the police, you will fail my friend.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Missin21

You know what? It doesn't matter how I or any other NON-police officer would have handled those situations. Police are supposed to SET THE EXAMPLE & not allow their emotions to take control of them. I don't care if the guy ran over a dozen cops, they are not supposed to react by beating someone who is already prone. That is not part of their training. They are supposed to be better then that, not stoop to the criminals' level & act like thugs with badges.

I agree well said.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by jsarno

You don't know what it's like to be them. Don't try to demonize them cause you had a bad experience. Police do a GREAT job 99%+ of the time, even if you don't agree with what happened, you shouldn't lump all the police together due to your own biast opinion.
Tell you what, go sit down with a few off duty cops and have them tell you some stories of what they go through on a daily basis and how they always hold their temper. Listen really close to their stories. They are amazing people to put up with what they put up with. So if occasionally there is some moron that tries to run down cops, or put their life in jeapordy, I will certainly look the other way and give them the benefit of the doubt.
I certainly hope no one holds you to your lofty standards for the police, you will fail my friend.

I like how you tell him not to demonize them, which I would generally agree, but then go on to the other extreme and make them near perfect.
Cops are people, some are downright bad, some are virtuous, but most are in the middle, doing their job, trying to do the best they can and not get downsized. If they see a buddy who needs a look the other way moment - a lot will look the other way. If their authority is challenged, all will respond, some will over react and abuse their power.

I like that you say to sit down with some off duty cops, good advice for someone who thinks all are abusive, power hungry men and women. They aren't.

I would tell someone like you, who throws out the 99%+ stat, to go look at all the cops who have gone over the deep end, look at the stats for police abuse and the frequency with which a slap on the wrist or no punishment at all occurs. and just as true, look at the number of cases of police being fired or going to jail for their abuses.

A person in authority should always be held to the highest standard. And when someone seeks out a profession that puts them in daily contact with the "worst" of society, and with the troubled, and dangerous, it is all the more reason to call them to task if they fail. No one said a good cop is an easy job, it may be one of the very hardest, but being a bad cop can be a very easy role to fall into.

[Missin21]

Originally Posted by jsarno

You don't know what it's like to be them. Don't try to demonize them cause you had a bad experience. Police do a GREAT job 99%+ of the time, even if you don't agree with what happened, you shouldn't lump all the police together due to your own biast opinion.
Tell you what, go sit down with a few off duty cops and have them tell you some stories of what they go through on a daily basis and how they always hold their temper. Listen really close to their stories. They are amazing people to put up with what they put up with. So if occasionally there is some moron that tries to run down cops, or put their life in jeapordy, I will certainly look the other way and give them the benefit of the doubt.
I certainly hope no one holds you to your lofty standards for the police, you will fail my friend.

Let me first start by exclaiming that ONE bad experience wouldn't make me feel that way. But just about EVERY experience I have had, just about every experience some of my friends have had, we have all been abused by a creep with a badge. And here's one even better. A very good friend of mine married a cop...a great guy, wonderful husband, probably a great dad, too. He has told me stories. Guess what. He would even tell me stories of HIM abusing his power.

As I said earlier, it could be as simple as changing lanes without signaling. Let me do something like that & they'll pull me out of the car & have me doing drunk tests. I have been robbed & the cop that arrived an hour & a half later tells me that there's nothing he could do for me because it's been raining. "Sorry, Bud." and jets. I'm supposed to believe, after 99% of my experiences with random officers have started AND ended badly, that 99% of them are on the up & up? You must be out of your f'in' mind.

I'm happy that every time a cop pulls you over, he doesn't bring 12 of his buddies with him to ask you the same frikkin questions over & over again for seemingly no reason OTHER than they're bored. Or for that matter, have them approach your car with his gun drawn & in your face without cause. I've had a friend put in the hospital for over a month by cops looking for someone to take their aggressions out on...& often times, they find some poor guy who doesn't have money or power of influence that they can abuse & do so readily. Every once in a while, someone with a camera phone or a video camera or idiot cops who forget about their dashcam catches these assholes doing just that. Abusing someone who could not fight back.

I'm sure it's nothing for you to think that the cops were in the right for beating a prone individual because he ran over another cop. To me, that makes them thugs. I've seen gang members do the exact same thing. but that was a crime, because they didn't have badges, right? Like I said, F*** the police. They are supposed to respond with restraint & be better then the thugs they put away, not act just like them. If the guy gets out of his car & starts shooting at them, fine, gun him down. That's self defense. That is what they are trained to do. IF they had shot the man thru his windshield while he was driving after he had run one of them down, I'm fine with that too. That's self defense. They didn't do that. The man is laying prone face down on the ground. This is when their training should kick in & they should either handcuff him & put him in the back of a squad car, or, God forbid, they call an ambulance & have him shipped to the nearest hospital under guard & then handcuff him when he can leave the hospital.

People who turn a blind eye & deaf ear to cops abusing their powers because someone "threatens" them is the reason cops get away with so much abuse. Try being at the end of that a few times, realizing that no matter what you do or say, you are POWERLESS against them. They can do whatever they want. Why? Because they are cops & even if they abuse you on camera, well they can just make up some bullshit story as to why they did it & guess what...people like you will believe whatever the cops say. They can't possibly be lying. They're cops...! :yeahright

If a military faction goes into a town in Iraq & rapes & murders an entire village in the name of the USA, it's a tragedy, but a cop, whose life isn't in NEARLY the danger a soldiers is, is justified for beating someone to near death because "his job is dangerous?" That's bullshit & you know it. Like I said, try having a cop abuse you a few times just because he can, like I & several of my friends, & your tune will change.

I'm sure, since you are such a supporter of the police, that nothing I've said even phases you. I'm sure you don't believe anything I've said. I don't really care to be honest. What I do really care about is this blind faith in someone simply because they have a badge. It just boggles my mind. As if the shine off the badge puts you in a trance or something & you are thereafter brainwashed-"All cops are good. Their job is dangerous. Support your local troopers."-in a typical hypnotic voice.

I don't take away the fact that their jobs are dangerous. That doesn't give them the right to abuse people whenever THEY feel it's ok. Despite your unfathomable belief in them, they are not above the law...& far too many of them get away with being just that. And quite frankly, it's sickening the way society lets them get away with so much. Being on the side of the abused gives me a whole different perspective & I could honestly care less how dangerous their jobs are. I have NEVER ONCE given a cop any reason to point his gun or wave his billy club at me & yet, they do it anyway. It's happened in this state, it's happened in other states. It's happened in the District. But, because YOU think that all cops are good people & upstanding citizens, I'm just supposed to put my bad experiences on the back burner & accept that their jobs are dangerous & so therefore, if they beat one guy who ran over one of their own, it's ok...? Yeah, sorry. They KNEW what they did was wrong which is why this video took so long to come out. That's WHY they were fired, & rightly so. They are TRAINED to respond differently & they took their own justice, which is AGAINST THE LAW, PERIOD! Regardless of what ANYONE thinks...including the cops themselves.


I apologize for my rant, but it just really gets under my skin when someone trivializes any kind of abuse by the police & using "their jobs are dangerous" as an excuse to allow them to continue to get away with it. Especially when I, myself, & so many people around me have suffered at the hands of these pricks simply because they have a badge & a gun & an attitude problem...& a willing public who will fall in line behind them, no matter what they say or do.

[Missin21]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

I like how you tell him not to demonize them, which I would generally agree, but then go on to the other extreme and make them near perfect.
Cops are people, some are downright bad, some are virtuous, but most are in the middle, doing their job, trying to do the best they can and not get downsized. If they see a buddy who needs a look the other way moment - a lot will look the other way. If their authority is challenged, all will respond, some will over react and abuse their power.

I like that you say to sit down with some off duty cops, good advice for someone who thinks all are abusive, power hungry men and women. They aren't.

I would tell someone like you, who throws out the 99%+ stat, to go look at all the cops who have gone over the deep end, look at the stats for police abuse and the frequency with which a slap on the wrist or no punishment at all occurs. and just as true, look at the number of cases of police being fired or going to jail for their abuses.

A person in authority should always be held to the highest standard. And when someone seeks out a profession that puts them in daily contact with the "worst" of society, and with the troubled, and dangerous, it is all the more reason to call them to task if they fail. No one said a good cop is an easy job, it may be one of the very hardest, but being a bad cop can be a very easy role to fall into.

Well said. I, unfortunately, do not share the views of those that think that even 1/2 of our police forces are good anymore. Just because I haven't shared my every experience with the police doesn't mean that I HAVEN'T had lengthy conversations with on or off duty cops. I have. On several occasions, under different circumstances.

I didn't used to feel this way, but terrible experience after another has led me down this road. I used to feel that most cops were good. But even after talking to several, & then mine & my friends' experiences, one right after another, have shown me otherwise. It's just the way it is. It's like I said earlier. Look at your boss. Look at his/her boss. Go higher. Everyone in a position of power abuses it somehow. The police are NOT, by any stretch of the imagination, the exception to this. Not even close. Regardless of what society wants to believe.

It's easier to believe they are all good. How else can you teach your children to find a cop if they need one? I can tell you, I for one, won't do any such thing. I don't trust them anymore, haven't for years, & I will NEVER tell my kids to find a cop for help. I'll tell them to run to a neighbor or a friend first...
"cop is your absolute LAST resort. When all else fails, THEN you find a cop. Make sure you mind your "P's & Q's" first, to avoid getting beat down in the name of the law, though."

[724Skinsfan]

For all those looking for a good way to explain the Theory of Relativity, look no further than this thread.

The guy was ejected from his car and is on the ground unconscious and these cops start beating on him? Those cops are just straight up cowards and deserved to be canned.

I respect cops and I even live next to a cop so I have no problem with the police. I do have problems though with cops assaulting a unconscious man.

[Gmanc711]

Originally Posted by dmek25

hard to feel bad for someone that shoots someone in the face, point blank. i hate to say it, but he got what he deserved

No shit, I mean I hate hate hate when cops abuse their power (like that duchebag we saw with the kid on the skateboard in Baltimore, or the guy with Ryan Moats... they can go screw)...

But in a situation like that, where someone shoots your fellow co worker, friend in the face, I'd probably do the same thing..

(talking more about the youtube video)

[Missin21]

Originally Posted by Gmanc711

No shit, I mean I hate hate hate when cops abuse their power (like that duchebag we saw with the kid on the skateboard in Baltimore, or the guy with Ryan Moats... they can go screw)...

But in a situation like that, where someone shoots your fellow co worker, friend in the face, I'd probably do the same thing..

(talking more about the youtube video)

See, to me, if they had just shot that guy right there in the courtroom, you get no argument from me. He's just grabbed a gun & shot someone in front of you. Shoot him. Even if they had just shot him when they caught him down the street after bolting out of the 3rd story window.
"Hey, we caught him, but he tried shooting us again, so we killed him in the street."
But to wait until he's handcuffed in custody & THEN beat him like that? That's inexcusable & cowardly.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by Missin21

If a military faction goes into a town in Iraq & rapes & murders an entire village in the name of the USA, it's a tragedy, but a cop, whose life isn't in NEARLY the danger a soldiers is, is justified for beating someone to near death because "his job is dangerous?" That's bullshit & you know it. Like I said, try having a cop abuse you a few times just because he can, like I & several of my friends, & your tune will change.

You are putting words in my mouth with the connection to the Military. If I believe that 99% are doing their jobs and we should look the other way in most cases, why would I not think that out of Military personel? However, to compare rape with someone getting "abused", don't you think that's a tad over the top? Rape should not be acceptable in ANY circumstance.

I'm sure, since you are such a supporter of the police, that nothing I've said even phases you. I'm sure you don't believe anything I've said. I don't really care to be honest. What I do really care about is this blind faith in someone simply because they have a badge. It just boggles my mind. As if the shine off the badge puts you in a trance or something & you are thereafter brainwashed-"All cops are good. Their job is dangerous. Support your local troopers."-in a typical hypnotic voice.

Funny thing is, when I read your rant, at first I thought, damn he had some awful expereinces, then the more I read and the more I saw your anger, the more I realized that you probably THINK you did NOTHING to envoke the officer, but in fact you did. Fact is, even in the cops caught on camera, the "victim" usually mouths off, or spits at them, or does some behavior that's lewd or uncivilized. I'd wager you played the same roll in your "victim" status. Guess what, I have not had the experiences you had with the police cause I actually respect them and what they do. When they come to my window, I use the word "sir" a lot. (not PIG for instance) And no, it's not a comment with a distain voice saying "what the f--- are you stopping me for sir?" When I have heard stories about "police abusing power" it's ALWAYS cause the "victim" starts shit then gets pissed when the cop ends it. Sorry, I don't believe your story that you were just minding your own business, maybe on the way to church with your suit on singing Holy, Holy, Holy, and a big bad cop showed up at your window with a gun pulled. Why not be honest with all of us and tell us EXACTLY what happened, with an emphasis on what you said and did to envoke him. A good rule of thumb when someone tells a story about someone else is that if they focus 100% on what the other party did, they likely had a lot more to do with the incident then they let on.

FYI, here is an acceptable way to speak to the police on a routine traffic stop even if you think you were not speeding:
COP- Do you know why I pulled you over today?
YOU- No sir, was I speeding?
COP- Yes, I caught you going 75 in a 65.
YOU- I'm sorry sir, I didn't realize I was travelling so fast, I was trying to keep up with traffic, but could have sworn I was travelling at the speed limit of 65.
COP- No sir, my radar had you clocked at 75...license and registration please.
YOU- Of course sir, let me get those for you. (while handing them to officer...) Sir, I am sorry my speed was over the limit, I am having financial troubles with the economy the way it is, is it possible you could let me off with a warning?
COP- Let me run your tags / license.
waiting...
COP- I decided to give you a ticket at the speed of 75 MPH, you are required to appear in court on ... day...blah, blah legal mumbo jumbo.
YOU- Thank you sir, have a nice day.

You will notice no arguing, no telling the cop he's dumb, or wrong. Always being polite even though you think you are right. Remember, you will always have your day in court if need be. Do NOTHING to try to anger him. While you might have been caught in the morning, or on a good day, he might have had a miserable day of jerks before you. These are PEOPLE! They are not machines no matter how much you wish they were. You don't want people talking to you with lack of respect, so why do it to them? I have been stopped well over 10 times in my life by the police, and I have had interaction with police (on duty) maybe 25-30 times. Not once have I had an incident because I use a good rule of thumb...treat others the way you want to be treated.

SInce I showed you a way how to handle a police officer, here is an example of a friend of mine (that thinks all cops are out to get him too) and what he did from start to finish:
COP- Do you know why I pulled you over today?
BRAD- You had nothing else better to do?
COP- You were going 45 in a 35.
BRAD- Are you upset that I was going to get to the donut shop before you?
COP- License and registration please.
BRAD- I wasn't speeding!
COP- I clocked you on my lidar at 45MPH in a 35MPH zone sir. License and registration please.
BRAD- No way, you're wrong, I wasn't speeding!
COP- Sir, I am going to ask you one last time. License and registration please.
BRAD- Here you go pig (dropped them on the ground in front of the cop)
COP- Sir, step out of the vehicle.
BRAD- What? I gave you what you wanted, what's the problem pig?
COP- Sir, step out of the vehicle now!
BRAD- This is bull-sh.. (steps out of the vehicle)
COP- Put your hands on the hood sir and spread your legs.
BRAD- (complies, but in anger and continues to cuss and make lewd remarks)
COP- (Searches vehicle...finds marijuana in the passenger seat crack.)

Brad got busted for a misdemeanor drug charge, and speeding...could have gotten worse. He had drug paraphanalia (sp?) in the trunk, and he had expired insurance (by 2 days). But the officer let him off of those. When Brad first told me this story, he left out his comments and told me how much of a jerk that officer was, and that he was profiling. (which I laughed at since Brad is white). After getting more of the info, and the officer that stopped him was Lance Ridgway (a very well respected officer that I have known for years) I knew Brad was the problem.

Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, respect authority and treat them like you would want to be treated, and then you won't have any problems. Be a jerk and talk back and be rude, and you are asking for problems. Simple advice.

[Missin21]

Originally Posted by jsarno

You are putting words in my mouth with the connection to the Military. If I believe that 99% are doing their jobs and we should look the other way in most cases, why would I not think that out of Military personel? However, to compare rape with someone getting "abused", don't you think that's a tad over the top? Rape should not be acceptable in ANY circumstance.

No, I agree. It was a bad analogy that I used. I apologize. I was merely pointing to the fact that when soldiers do things that are questionable, we often forget the danger these men place themselves in 24/7 for the sake of our freedom versus the police who do not.

Funny thing is, when I read your rant, at first I thought, damn he had some awful expereinces, then the more I read and the more I saw your anger, the more I realized that you probably THINK you did NOTHING to envoke the officer, but in fact you did. Fact is, even in the cops caught on camera, the "victim" usually mouths off, or spits at them, or does some behavior that's lewd or uncivilized. I'd wager you played the same roll in your "victim" status. Guess what, I have not had the experiences you had with the police cause I actually respect them and what they do. When they come to my window, I use the word "sir" a lot. (not PIG for instance)

I didn't read your whole post simply because you are running on assumptions now. Do you honestly think that because I feel this way now that I have ALWAYS felt this way?

And I have NEVER called a cop a pig to his face like that. I have always said "sir" or "officer" because regardless of what I say here & how I TRULY feel, he still has a badge...& a gun. This is where my anger stems from.

And don't forget, I also mentioned that I had a friend put in the hospital because of cops who were on a rampage. I still really don't know what that was all about. Don't really care either, at this point. Just a bunch of thugs with badges taking out their frustration on someone they could.

I don't expect you to believe this because your respect for cops is obviously far reaching & without your own terrible experiences, you simply won't believe it. I have always tried to be respectful TO a cop when he has pulled me over or stopped me in whatever capacity & have been as forthcoming & honest as possible. That has mattered little.

I know you must think that I have spat at every cop that I encountered & called them Pigs when they come up to my car simply because I have a bias against them because of my experiences. That is simply not true. I am biased & have anger towards them because they have treated me so poorly IN SPITE of my show of respect for them. I feel as though, if I were calling them pigs & spitting at them everytime I was approached by a cop, well, then of course they were abusing me. But I wasn't.

But you go on believing that all cops are wonderful & have absolutely no agenda or biases or abuse their power. My hope is that you don't have to experience that side of them, because, my friend, it is a very scary thing & not pretty. When something like that happens, you are truly powerless. And that is extremely frightening.

[Missin21]

Originally Posted by jsarno

Sorry, I don't believe your story that you were just minding your own business, maybe on the way to church with your suit on singing Holy, Holy, Holy, and a big bad cop showed up at your window with a gun pulled. Why not be honest with all of us and tell us EXACTLY what happened, with an emphasis on what you said and did to envoke him.

You just run off with your assumptions, huh?

You want the whole story? Ok.

I was driving to work one night (I used to work at UPS in Chantilly-worked there for a little over 3 years). It was around 3:15am when I passed a cop who had someone pulled over in the far right lane right near...I wanna say it's Chantilly Plaza, but I could be wrong about the name. There's a gas station there & across the parking lot is a townhouse community...it's on route 50 just past Old Lee Rd, if I'm not mistaken.

Route 50 thru there is 3 lanes & no shoulder, so he had this car pulled over in the far right lane. I was in the middle lane with a car about 1 to 2 car lengths behind me. I was driving the speed limit (which is 45mph). Next to me, about 1/2 a car length ahead was a blue minivan & behind him, about 1 to 2 car lengths back, was another car.

We pass the cop & the person he had pulled going the speed limit. I look up in my rearview & I see his lights. This cop is swerving in between the cars behind me & next to me to get behind me. The blue minivan (which I remember with astounding clarity) thinks HE is being pulled over so he starts to get in front of me & over into the right lane. I realize that, for some reason, the cop is after me. The blue minivan hasn't figured that out yet & stops in front of me, nearly causing me to rear end him. Once he realizes that the cop wants me, he bolts.

Now, I am stopped on the side of the road. At this point, we are near where the IHOP & Lowe's(?) shopping Center where there is more room for me to pull over. This guy approaches my window with his gun drawn & screams, 'HANDS WHERE I CAN SEE 'EM!' So I put my hands on the steering wheel, now thinking that this is a case of mistaken ID or something. He never pulls me from my car, but he is seething the whole time. I actually expected to see foam forming around the corners of his lips.

Once he realizes that I am not going to give him any trouble, he puts his gun away. I never say more than "No, sir", "Yes, sir" to him as he explains that I did not "yield to an emergency vehicle." I didn't argue with him as I knew this would cause more problems & I really didn't want to see the gun again. He gave me a ticket & left. Now, maybe that doesn't seem like much to you, but try having that gun in your face when you ARE obeying the law, which I was...keep reading.

NOW, I get to court. If you've ever been to court, then you know that they call cases by the cops name. So they start rattling off his cases while I'm sitting there. At one point, the judge practically had his head in his hands BEFORE he calls me. The girl who was called before me he pulled over in a similar fashion because she had an expired county sticker on her windshield...right next to the valid one which she had just gotten at the gov't center. She explained to the judge that she did not have a razor blade on her to remove the old one, but thought she was ok with the valid one until she got home, which was when he pulled her over. The judge threw HER case out.

Then I get up there & explained the situation to the judge (after reading the LAW in the DMV book before going to court which states that you are supposed to yield to emergency vehicles WHEN REASONABLE) & how there were several vehicles around me & that I did not see it reasonable to sideswipe the car next to me or slam on my brakes & meet the guy behind me via car accident. Once the judge heard the WHOLE story, gun drawn & all (that prompted the "doh: from him), he looked at the cop & asked, "What was he supposed to do?" and threw the case out.

Like I said, you are assuming way too much & obviously think that everyone who gets abused deserves it. That is my most recent run in with a bad cop. I can only imagine had my situation started out like your friend, Brad with

COP- Do you know why I pulled you over today?
BRAD- You had nothing else better to do?
COP- You were going 45 in a 35.
BRAD- Are you upset that I was going to get to the donut shop before you?

I wouldn't be here to tell you about it.

You must really think I'm very stupid. Your assumptions are so ridiculous, they are actually kind of funny...not.