2011 NFL Draft

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag59

I invoke the go with God defense as well as my right against self incrimination. Basically whoever Shanahan picks I will support and believe in because I believe that in spite of the McNabb fiasco the Shanahans still know how to find and develop QB's.

At the moment I'm trying to like Locker but he scares me. I personally would probably go with Dalton or Ponder in the second, which would be easier if I could learn specifics about Dalton. However as I've been saying over the past hour I think that the Skins are going to use a first round pick on Locker.

I think that right now their Plan A is to trade down into the late teens and pick up a third round pick and draft Locker. Plan B will be to take Locker at 10. Remember Shanahan was the the guy that took Cutler at 11, so I personally believe he won't have any problem taking him at 10 if he thinks that what it'll take to get him.

Fair enough. I pray that you are wrong about Locker - not because we'd be drafting him but because #10 is way too high.

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by Lotus

Fair enough. I pray that you are wrong about Locker - not because we'd be drafting him but because #10 is way too high.

I do to, if my notion is right then I hope that it's done through a trade down. At least that way they can add two players in the trenches in the first 3 rounds with that extra pick.

I'd also add that I think that the elder Shanahan views Locker as a McNabb clone. However the main difference is that Locker will be more open to what Shanahan wants in terms of coaching and running the system then McNabb and as a result will succeed.

[skinster]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag59

Ponder, Locker, Dalton, and Kaepernick (possibly Stanzi as well) are all QB's that are capable of being coached up by the Shanahans. All 4 are also mobile and capable of protecting the O-Line.

Still I think that people here should seriously prepare for this team drafting Locker as early as 10. Raw talent seems to matter the most to Shanahan and only Newton has more raw talent then Locker. The difference is Locker has been pegged as fitting Shanahan's system and we've already heard how much he likes him.

To put it simply Locker is the Trent Williams of the QB position. And I believe, gun to my head and I have to be right that for better or worse Locker will be drafted by the Redskins, and it's very possible that unless they can trade back that it will happen with the 10th pick.

Also the last 10 years doesn't matter. What does matter is the fact that we're looking at the 4th year of an amazing 3 year run of QB drafts. All classes that were deemed weak by this board on draft day.

Jimmy Clausen, Pat White, Chad Henne, Brian Brohm, Kevin Kolb, John Beck, Drew Stanton, Kellen Clemens, and Travaris Jackson are all the 2nd round prospects that "were able to be coached up" over the last 10 years.

There is a difference between "this can be our guy" and "this will be our guy." I'm not saying that we should not draft a qb, I'm just saying that we better damn well be sure it WILL be our guy.
There is a zero percent chance more than one of the guys you just mentioned would make it as our franchise qb. Every year people make the same statements you are making about potential, and every year they are wrong. Look to the past to predict the future. You can rationalize your opinions as much as you want, but it is a fact that your opinions on this subject are wrong as been proven by history (you see what I did there ).

[skinsfaninok]

I think the redskins will take a QB for sure but I also believe we will bring in a FA QB, maybe smith or young who knows? Let's remember Rex is a FA so no guarantee he is back

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by skinsfaninok

I think the redskins will take a QB for sure but I also believe we will bring in a FA QB, maybe smith or young who knows? Let's remember Rex is a FA so no guarantee he is back

I could have sworn Smoot say they were comfortable with Beck. Don't hold me to that though.

Originally Posted by skinster

Jimmy Clausen, Pat White, Chad Henne, Brian Brohm, Kevin Kolb, John Beck, Drew Stanton, Kellen Clemens, and Travaris Jackson are all the 2nd round prospects that "were able to be coached up" over the last 10 years.

There is a difference between "this can be our guy" and "this will be our guy." I'm not saying that we should not draft a qb, I'm just saying that we better damn well be sure it WILL be our guy.
There is a zero percent chance more than one of the guys you just mentioned would make it as our franchise qb. Every year people make the same statements you are making about potential, and every year they are wrong. Look to the past to predict the future. You can rationalize your opinions as much as you want, but it is a fact that your opinions on this subject are wrong as been proven by history (you see what I did there ).

Your right in that the overwhelming majority of second round QB's amount to nothing in this league. However to say that there is a 0% chance that any of them will become a franchise QB is a little far fetched (I know a mathmatician that would go crazy at the mention of 0%).

I personally don't usually like second round QB's, however with the exception of Beck and Kolb most of those QB's had average or terrible intangibles. The Daltons, Ponders, and Kaepernicks all have through the roof work ethics and leadership qualities. Dalton and Ponder are both accurate QB's with mobility. All they need is the right coach and Shanahan is a great fit.

In fact in the past thats why QB's have dropped to the second round as the concerns about their intangibles have overridden their physical skill set and production. Brian Brohm is probably the best example of this and Mallet looks like he's having similar problems. We also saw Clausen drop to the second round last year due to concerns about his leadershiip.

[Defensewins]

Originally Posted by Lotus

Huh?

Flacco's numbers have improved every year: Qb rating, YPA, TD/int ratio, etc. Last year:
93.6 rating, 3,622 yards, 7.4 YPA, 25 TD, 10 int

Flacco does not have the gaudy yardage totals of others but he does not throw as much, either.

Campbell has never put up numbers like that. And Flacco is just beginning to enter his prime.

I'd be happy if we had Flacco under center.

Flacco also plays on a very talented team that has a good Defense, Offensive line, Wr's and Running Back and running game. The Ravens have few weakness' and most Qb's would play well in that situation. Redskins do not have that yet.
I like Flacco and he is a good QB but he is not great. He has had the luxury of playing aon a very good team and has had the time to grow in his position. Not many Qb's have that luxury. You can say the same thing about Sanchez and the Jets. If the Jets had a stud QB like a Peyton Manning last year instead of Sanchez, they would be the Champs right now.

[diehardskin2982]

I honestly think that we will trade down in the first. Andy Dalton can be had in the second round. When I see Julio Jones, I think Michael Westbrook. There is no promisses that we will resign Grossman. I think there are pressing needs on the interior of the line that needs to be addressed. Getting pouncey in the first, and Dalton in the second would go along way to fixing this team.

That way next year Corey L. can shift to center and pouncey can play gaurd. Those moves along with resigning Brown would make this line better. Giving the QB a chance.

[skinsfaninok]

John beck? I just don't see anything to the guy

[Dirtbag59]

FINALLY! Someone took the time to make a video of Dalton that isn't shot by a student in the endzone.

[diehardskin2982]

definately not a highlight film! Just a full game but it shows his fight, and he has a quick release. He is my hope that the Redskins target in the second round.

[skinster]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag59

I could have sworn Smoot say they were comfortable with Beck. Don't hold me to that though.



Your right in that the overwhelming majority of second round QB's amount to nothing in this league. However to say that there is a 0% chance that any of them will become a franchise QB is a little far fetched (I know a mathmatician that would go crazy at the mention of 0%).

I personally don't usually like second round QB's, however with the exception of Beck and Kolb most of those QB's had average or terrible intangibles. The Daltons, Ponders, and Kaepernicks all have through the roof work ethics and leadership qualities. Dalton and Ponder are both accurate QB's with mobility. All they need is the right coach and Shanahan is a great fit.

In fact in the past thats why QB's have dropped to the second round as the concerns about their intangibles have overridden their physical skill set and production. Brian Brohm is probably the best example of this and Mallet looks like he's having similar problems. We also saw Clausen drop to the second round last year due to concerns about his leadershiip.

I didn't say there was a zero percent chance that a 2nd rounder will pan out. I said theres a zero percent chance that multiple 2nd round picks in this years draft are franchise qbs. Your right that I shouldn't say zero, but realistically the odds are close enough so that we shouldn't consider it a possibility.

A franchise qb is SO valuable, that if you truly believe your guy is the guy that will get it done, you use a first rounder on him. There is a reason why nobody thinks these guys will go in the first, its because nobody believes they are the guy.

If it were really as easy as you are saying to find a franchise qb, that all a guy with average skills and a good work ethic/leadership needs is a good coach, then there would be alot more franchise qbs in the league found in later rounds.

Good coaching does not make or break any qb. If that were true then qb's that failed with the teams that drafted them should improve when they move teams or get new coaches. Every failed qb ever has found a new coach eventually, but I can't think of a single qb that ever turned into a franchise qb after a coaching change.

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by diehardskin2982

definately not a highlight film! Just a full game but it shows his fight, and he has a quick release. He is my hope that the Redskins target in the second round.

I didn't expect him to have that much zip on his throws. Personally I loved how accurate we was on those quick outs and comebacks. That fade pass on the TD was great as well. If anything I'd say he's a poor mans Sam Bradford. Finally though I have a better understanding as to why he's created so many man crushes. Andy Dalton is worthy of being this teams QB.

[skinsfaninok]

Ive liked Dalton all along he reminds me of a poor mans Rodgers

[SmootSmack]

I'm not sure I ever exactly said comfortable with Beck. But I think he's in the mix. As of today, if a CBA ever comes around or if there's enough time between legal battles to move on free agency, I see a QB competition this summer starring John Beck, Vince Young, a draft pick (they seem to like Dalton, but 10 is too high and will he be there at 41?), and maybe Rex Grossman (or perhaps another veteran).

Been asking several different people associated with the NFL and/or the Redskins in different ways...and this Vince Young interest is legit. I'm still trying to wrap my head around that one. But at least this year I'll feel prepared if it happens, unlike last year when the McNabb totally blindsided me.

[skinsfaninok]

Wow it seems like Vince yoUng could really be the guy next year , I'd take him under Shanny