Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Well, it also wasn't that far off in 2009 either...we just haven't gotten any closer. It's the same situation: the team is old, not winning, and changes of some degree have to be made. There's no Cerrato to kick around this time, but his absence hasn't changed much.

in 2009 we werent far off talent wise? hmmm i dont know about that.

The holes we have to plug this time dont involve bad contracts to get out of, thats huge. We will certainly shed some old guys this season.

The thing after this season, the decisions to be made are the biggest of the big in 20 years about the direction of franchise, talent and coaching. And I think its actually a really big plus

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

in 2009 we werent far off talent wise? hmmm i dont know about that.

The holes we have to plug this time dont involve bad contracts to get out of, thats huge. We will certainly shed some old guys this season.

The thing after this season, the decisions to be made are the biggest of the big in 20 years about the direction of franchise, talent and coaching. And I think its actually a really big plus

Contracts matter, you're right. We had two albatross contracts that Cerrato signed in 2009 (plus any number of shortsighted restructures), and only one under Shanahan (Garcon). Although: the deadcap accumulation next year from the 2012 shopping spree is going to be significant.

But alright, compare that team to the current team.

QB - Campbell was a lot further along in his development under Zorn than RG3 is under Shanahan, which matters in performance evaluation, but Griffin is the better prospect (and four years younger than 2009 Campbell). I still think RG3 is a future all-pro in this league, and would take him over any other player in the 2012 QB class.

RB - Much better in 2013. Ladell Betts was a nice player at the end of his career. Portis had a lot left, and was just turning 30 (or so it seemed). But Morris is as good a pure runner as anyone in the league including Peterson and McCoy. Helu is a pretty damn good player to. And Darrel Young all day over a declining Mike Sellers.

WR - Wash. Santana Moss didn't appear to have a ton left in 2009, Randle El was a complementary player, and beyond the top two, the Redskins were abysmal. Anthony Armstrong though was on the roster, and although he didn't play on the 2009 Redskins, he might tip the scales slightly in favor of the 09 team? Maybe?

TE - More depth in 2009. Cooley was coming off back to back decline years, and Fred Davis looked promising. Wait, Todd Yoder was a Redskin? I'd take the 2013 roster (and I mean, Fred Davis in his pime is there if you need him -- but nah, we're good) because Jordan Reed is that good, but I'm not sure Reed would have even played TE just five years ago.

OL - 2013, but this is pretty close. Chris Samuels was basically retired. Stephon Heyer stayed healthy the full season, which was nice. But Casey Rabach, Derrick Dockery, and Mike Williams? For real? Interior line still needs improvement, but these guys were a disaster. The 2009 had some guys on the roster who went on to play for other organizations (Edwin Williams, Chad Rinehart...you can count Will Montgomery too). As an aside: Polumbus' 2013 reminds me a lot of Heyer's 2009.

DL - 2009. Andre Carter is one of the best players in the NFL at his position. Corneilius Griffin has recent productivity in his past, but he's about done. Kedric Golston is an effective player, still. Albert Haynesworth is an effective player, still. Brian Orakpo played some DL in passing downs only. Phillip Daniels somehow still going strong. Good depth. Now? Adam Carriker and Jarvis Jenkins remain major question marks. Stephen Bowen gives you a body who will answer the call every Sunday and little else, and Cofield is playing well despite being something of a liability against the run. Absolutely no depth.

LB - 2009, though this is closer than DL. Orakpo and Kerrigan are two of the best players on the current defense. Better than 2009 Orakpo and Rocky McIntosh. But 2009 London Fletcher was as good as anyone in the league. HB Blades was nice depth. 2013 London Fletcher, Perry Riley, and Nick Barnett are just totally overmatched. Also: Josh Hull is a Redskin?

DB - 2009, not close. Rogers in his prime, Landry heading into his, Hall (theoretically) with his best years ahead, Justin Tryon heading into year three, Kevin Barnes into year two (Kevin Barnes had a pretty nice year for us in 2011...and is out of the league two years later). Hall and Wilson are currently in their primes, Amerson is an inconsistent rookie, and there is nothing about the safety situation that lighting it on fire could not fix.

ST - Any year in history > 2013

I'd favor the 2009 team anywhere on defense and special teams, and at one or two spots on offense (out of 11). Similarities: a lot of players contributing now who are just about done (Chris Chester, Santana Moss, Fletcher, obviously).

You'd take the 2013 roster because Griffin. So this analysis was a lot longer than it needed to be (duh). Fundamentally, however, the problems are the same: old roster lacks talent at key positions.

[Bucket]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Contracts matter, you're right. We had two albatross contracts that Cerrato signed in 2009 (plus any number of shortsighted restructures), and only one under Shanahan (Garcon). Although: the deadcap accumulation next year from the 2012 shopping spree is going to be significant.

But alright, compare that team to the current team.

QB - Campbell was a lot further along in his development under Zorn than RG3 is under Shanahan, which matters in performance evaluation, but Griffin is the better prospect (and four years younger than 2009 Campbell). I still think RG3 is a future all-pro in this league, and would take him over any other player in the 2012 QB class.

RB - Much better in 2013. Ladell Betts was a nice player at the end of his career. Portis had a lot left, and was just turning 30 (or so it seemed). But Morris is as good a pure runner as anyone in the league including Peterson and McCoy. Helu is a pretty damn good player to. And Darrel Young all day over a declining Mike Sellers.

WR - Wash. Santana Moss didn't appear to have a ton left in 2009, Randle El was a complementary player, and beyond the top two, the Redskins were abysmal. Anthony Armstrong though was on the roster, and although he didn't play on the 2009 Redskins, he might tip the scales slightly in favor of the 09 team? Maybe?

TE - More depth in 2009. Cooley was coming off back to back decline years, and Fred Davis looked promising. Wait, Todd Yoder was a Redskin? I'd take the 2013 roster (and I mean, Fred Davis in his pime is there if you need him -- but nah, we're good) because Jordan Reed is that good, but I'm not sure Reed would have even played TE just five years ago.

OL - 2013, but this is pretty close. Chris Samuels was basically retired. Stephon Heyer stayed healthy the full season, which was nice. But Casey Rabach, Derrick Dockery, and Mike Williams? For real? Interior line still needs improvement, but these guys were a disaster. The 2009 had some guys on the roster who went on to play for other organizations (Edwin Williams, Chad Rinehart...you can count Will Montgomery too). As an aside: Polumbus' 2013 reminds me a lot of Heyer's 2009.

DL - 2009. Andre Carter is one of the best players in the NFL at his position. Corneilius Griffin has recent productivity in his past, but he's about done. Kedric Golston is an effective player, still. Albert Haynesworth is an effective player, still. Brian Orakpo played some DL in passing downs only. Phillip Daniels somehow still going strong. Good depth. Now? Adam Carriker and Jarvis Jenkins remain major question marks. Stephen Bowen gives you a body who will answer the call every Sunday and little else, and Cofield is playing well despite being something of a liability against the run. Absolutely no depth.

LB - 2009, though this is closer than DL. Orakpo and Kerrigan are two of the best players on the current defense. Better than 2009 Orakpo and Rocky McIntosh. But 2009 London Fletcher was as good as anyone in the league. HB Blades was nice depth. 2013 London Fletcher, Perry Riley, and Nick Barnett are just totally overmatched. Also: Josh Hull is a Redskin?

DB - 2009, not close. Rogers in his prime, Landry heading into his, Hall (theoretically) with his best years ahead, Justin Tryon heading into year three, Kevin Barnes into year two (Kevin Barnes had a pretty nice year for us in 2011...and is out of the league two years later). Hall and Wilson are currently in their primes, Amerson is an inconsistent rookie, and there is nothing about the safety situation that lighting it on fire could not fix.

ST - Any year in history > 2013

I'd favor the 2009 team anywhere on defense and special teams, and at one or two spots on offense (out of 11). Similarities: a lot of players contributing now who are just about done (Chris Chester, Santana Moss, Fletcher, obviously).

You'd take the 2013 roster because Griffin. So this analysis was a lot longer than it needed to be (duh). Fundamentally, however, the problems are the same: old roster lacks talent at key positions.

Funny thing about this assessment is you most likely made this same type of opinionated responses in 2009 comparing the 2005 team. Lol

Which is sad..

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by Bucket

Funny thing about this assessment is you most likely made this same type of opinionated responses in 2009 comparing the 2005 team. Lol

Which is sad..

2005 was an awesome defense, no comparison there son.

2009 defense and special teams were still far better than today's defense and special teams though, and today's offense isn't enough to compensate. Pretty simple but Tripps in depth analysis was awesome. But there again, an honest person has to acknowledge the offense today has a huge asterisk next to it. So many points and yards in garbage time, totally inconsistent and can't score to win games, based on a gimmicky scheme of diminishing marginal productivity and will absolutely shorten our franchise QBs career. As someone else said recently, even the earliest Shanahan critics didn't predict how inept his regime would be.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Bucket

Funny thing about this assessment is you most likely made this same type of opinionated responses in 2009 comparing the 2005 team. Lol

That doesn't make any sense.

[Bucket]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

That doesn't make any sense.

Only to someone who is oblivious.

Let's compare teams from a different era and staff and say which one is better and claim it truth. lol.. Basically what that post boils down to.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Bucket

Only to someone who is oblivious.

Let's compare teams from a different era and staff and say which one is better and claim it truth. lol.. Basically what that post boils down to.

I get the douchebaggery, that comes across very clear, but I'm still not sure what -- if anything -- you are criticizing.