Around the NFL Week 13

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by redskins5044

I agree now with the hindsight of what he has done, but if we would have hired him instead of Shanny if we could have people would have been protesting.

Any coach would not have fared any better had they came into the situation that Mike was handed. I STILL don't get why he took this job. I guess 7 mil/yr will make a man do crazy things.


Also, to think that Pete Carrol is a better coach than Mike Shanahan is beyond laughable, it's downright moronic.

[donofriose]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

Any coach would not have fared any better had they came into the situation that Mike was handed. I STILL don't get why he took this job. I guess 7 mil/yr will make a man do crazy things.


Also, to think that Pete Carrol is a better coach than Mike Shanahan is beyond laughable, it's downright moronic.

Pete carrol didnt exactly walk into a great situation in Seattle. Pretty much all the talent they have now is because of carrol on his staff.

And right now carrol is the better coach. Legacy and career accomplishments shanahan has him beat by a mile. But in what they both have done recently... It's not even close.

[redskins5044]

Originally Posted by donofriose

Pete carrol didnt exactly walk into a great situation in Seattle. Pretty much all the talent they have now is because of carrol on his staff.

And right now carrol is the better coach. Legacy and career accomplishments shanahan has him beat by a mile. But in what they both have done recently... It's not even close.

Totally different IMO...we had huge overpaid players on the team and were one of oldest teams in the league. It was also know we were going to be in cap hell with or without the cap penalty.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by donofriose

Pete carrol didnt exactly walk into a great situation in Seattle. Pretty much all the talent they have now is because of carrol on his staff.

And right now carrol is the better coach. Legacy and career accomplishments shanahan has him beat by a mile. But in what they both have done recently... It's not even close.

What? They had a all-pro center in Unger, all-pro LB in Lofa Tatupu, and Matt Hassleback. They also picked up Marshawn Lynch to bolster the RB. Not to mention, he had TWO 1st round picks in 2010, which netted him two of those players you are talking about. He didn't walk into a situation where he was fucked by the salary cap because of a dead weight fatass and a D-hall. You know what Mike walked into? A line that consisted of Casey Rabach. Wide Receivers that consisted of Malcom Kelly and Devin Thomas. ABSOLUTELY NO YOUNG TALENT. The one guy that was there, is a piece of shit bum that would rather coast than work hard and be the best. (fred davis)

The situation Pete Carrol walked into was a dream compared to what Mike walked into. No two ways about it. This team and culture had been fucked for well over a decade and you don't unfuck it in a year or so. Not unless you are one lucky individual who happens to land jackpots on every single draft pick.

Mike's fucked up quite a bit here, but make no mistake about it, the situations aren't nearly close to being the same. Not by a long shot.

[donofriose]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

What? They had a all-pro center in Unger, all-pro LB in Lofa Tatupu, and Matt Hassleback. They also picked up Marshawn Lynch to bolster the RB. Not to mention, he had TWO 1st round picks in 2010, which netted him two of those players you are talking about. He didn't walk into a situation where he was fucked by the salary cap because of a dead weight fatass and a D-hall. You know what Mike walked into? A line that consisted of Casey Rabach. Wide Receivers that consisted of Malcom Kelly and Devin Thomas. ABSOLUTELY NO YOUNG TALENT. The one guy that was there, is a piece of shit bum that would rather coast than work hard and be the best. (fred davis)

The situation Pete Carrol walked into was a dream compared to what Mike walked into. No two ways about it. This team and culture had been fucked for well over a decade and you don't unfuck it in a year or so. Noot unless you are one lucky individual who happens to land jackpots on every single draft pick.
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Mike's fucked up quite a bit here, but make no mistakke about it, the situations aren't nearly close to being the same. Not by a long shot.

Unger wasn't even a center yet. He was playing guard. Carrol developed him. He wasn't a pro bowler until 2012.
Shanahan traded away draft picks that's on him.
Shanahan had a terrible Oline and receivers when he got here... It's been 4 years what has changed?
I'm not even sure if there are receivers on Seattle that were there before carrol arrived.
Tatupu and hassleback aren't even on the team anymore. Is that your reference for young talent on Seattle?
Pretty sure marshawn lynch was traded in Pete carrols first year there, as in he went out and got him instead of trading for Mcnabb but I could be wrong.

What exactly is the same about the current Seattle team and the one carrol inherited? You make it sound like it he walked into a Andy Reid or Jim harbaugh situation.

He completely restarted that entire team. shanahan tried to so that and failed. But think of excuses for him even though simply put, he just did what shanahan couldn't do.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by donofriose

Unger wasn't even a center yet. He was playing guard. Carrol developed him. He wasn't a pro bowler until 2012.
Shanahan traded away draft picks that's on him.
Shanahan had a terrible Oline and receivers when he got here... It's been 4 years what has changed?
I'm not even sure if there are receivers on Seattle that were there before carrol arrived.
Tatupu and hassleback aren't even on the team anymore. Is that your reference for young talent on Seattle?
Pretty sure marshawn lynch was traded in Pete carrols first year there, as in he went out and got him instead of trading for Mcnabb but I could be wrong.

What exactly is the same about the current Seattle team and the one carrol inherited? You make it sound like it he walked into a Andy Reid or Jim harbaugh situation.

He completely restarted that entire team. shanahan tried to so that and failed. But think of excuses for him even though simply put, he just did what shanahan couldn't do.

Not going to shit up this thread with this debate. If you want to think their situations are remotely similar, by all means do so. That Seattle wasn't a total rebuild. Again, Pete Carroll is not the GM. What part of this don't you get?

[donofriose]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

Not going to shit up this thread with this debate. If you want to think their situations are remotely similar, by all means do so. That Seattle wasn't a total rebuild. Again, Pete Carroll is not the GM. What part of this don't you get?

Pete Carroll has final decisions on personal moves. According to what I Read. They hired the GM to be a consultant. Thats the reason the GM was hired after Carroll because Carroll help select him, making Carroll the real GM of the team. If you can find information that says otherwise I will gladly change my mind.

If you want to talk coaching lets talk wins and loses, and developing players.
Outside of Trent Williams and Morris, which player on the Skins has the Shanahan staff helped develop?

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by donofriose

Pete Carroll has final decisions on personal moves. According to what I Read. They hired the GM to be a consultant. Thats the reason the GM was hired after Carroll because Carroll help select him, making Carroll the real GM of the team. If you can find information that says otherwise I will gladly change my mind.

If you want to talk coaching lets talk wins and loses, and developing players.
Outside of Trent Williams and Morris, which player on the Skins has the Shanahan staff helped develop?

So why was Pete a failure as a coach in New England if he's so grand? ..or the Jets?

The main reason Pete has done so well is because he excels in defense, which is exactly where Mike sucks. Put a competent DC here and we aren't even discussing this. Also, you continue to neglect our salary cap issue which is huge in the grand scheme of things.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by donofriose

If you want to talk coaching lets talk wins and loses, and developing players.
Outside of Trent Williams and Morris, which player on the Skins has the Shanahan staff helped develop?

I think you need to look at Shanahan's career and see the QB's he's worked with and players that have flourished under his control. Last time I checked, he's won 2 super bowl championships. Until Pete even sniffs one, I think this conversation is over.


I'm not saying Mike's done well here, just that Pete Carroll isn't a better coach than Mike. Mike's made some bad decisions here (mostly staff related) that have really affected this team in a major way. I'm just sick and fucking tired of hearing how X coach came in and turned Y team around. The problem with these anecdotal stories are that they aren't the same circumstances nor are they the same situations. How cares though right? It fits in to your hating agenda so carry on Ahab with your hunt.

Mike is bad, every other coach in the NFL is better. We get it....we really do. /s

[redskins5044]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

Any coach would not have fared any better had they came into the situation that Mike was handed. I STILL don't get why he took this job. I guess 7 mil/yr will make a man do crazy things.


Also, to think that Pete Carrol is a better coach than Mike Shanahan is beyond laughable, it's downright moronic.

I agree, this place was a F'ing mess before he got here. Your are right he probably took the job because of the money offered. But at this point I don't know what I want them to do with the coaching staff. I heard a good point on the radio today, and it basically said if you don't offer Shanny an extension and he picks up players in FA and draft then fire him next year the it's another wasted year since those players might not fit the new coaches scheme.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by redskins5044

I heard a good point on the radio today, and it basically said if you don't offer Shanny an extension and he picks up players in FA and draft then fire him next year the it's another wasted year since those players might not fit the new coaches scheme.

I agree with this, and my semi-rant wasn't meant to give Shanny a pass or think he deserves some sort of extension.

[redskins5044]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

I agree with this, and my semi-rant wasn't meant to give Shanny a pass or think he deserves some sort of extension.

Me either, I think Synder has to make a decision this offseason though..either needs to move on now or commit to Shanny beyond next year.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

Any coach would not have fared any better had they came into the situation that Mike was handed. I STILL don't get why he took this job. I guess 7 mil/yr will make a man do crazy things.


Also, to think that Pete Carrol is a better coach than Mike Shanahan is beyond laughable, it's downright moronic.

Completely disagree. Would Carroll trade draft picks for McNabb? RG3? Re arrange the defense? The reason Seattle is better than we are is simple. They've made better personnel moves than we have. End of discussion.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Completely disagree. Would Carroll trade draft picks for McNabb? RG3? Re arrange the defense? The reason Seattle is better than we are is simple. They've made better personnel moves than we have. End of discussion.

(removed b/c looks like Carroll is GM) He did trade two 3rd rounders for Clipboard Jesus, and he also signed Matt Flynn to a stupid contract.

People make dumb moves all the time. The problem with Mike was, he wasn't in a position to make any dumb moves. Those 3 picks he pissed away for McNabb and Brown could have been starters on this team right now. It's why I ranked it really high on my "biggest fuck up by Mike" list.


Also, it's about who's the better coach, not who's the better GM. Mike Shanahan the GM is not so good, unless it's offensive players.

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Completely disagree. Would Carroll trade draft picks for McNabb? RG3? Re arrange the defense? The reason Seattle is better than we are is simple. They've made better personnel moves than we have. End of discussion.

I'm not reading much on the other side of this (ignore listed) but regardless nobody can make an honest argument against your points here. Seattle is so packed with depth it almost seems unfair, and that's only possible through brilliant drafting and their handful of FA movies, most of which happened under Carroll. Mike on the other hand has been way below average in both draft and free agency. And his handling of the roster, both inherited and hand-picks has been abysmal.

But more importantly, what Carroll adds on game day is something mike hasn't achieved in over a decade. Bottom like is Carroll is a far superior talent evaluator and coach, arguing otherwise just smacks of ignorance (witch burners).