Worst Defense in the NFL

[MTK]

Originally Posted by The Huddle

I don't think there's anything close to a consensus that the defense is the reason this team is 5-10. Yes, the play of the defense as been awful, but the offense doesn't finish drives and has suffered from questionable playcalling. Sometimes the other team is going to score 27 points, and you just have to find a way to score 28. This team is bad across the board. On the whole, they haven't been able to stop other teams when they've had to and they haven't scored touchdowns when they've needed to.

Ultimately, Gibbs is the one who is accountable fror everything.

How much worse would the D have to be for you to place the majority of the blame on them for this miserable season??

The D has hit rock bottom. They have been gashed by just about every back they've faced, and they've given up a ton of big plays in the passing game. Outside of about 2-3 solid performances they've been downright awful, the worst overall D we've seen here in years.

I have no problem saying they are the main reason we are 5-10. No problem at all.

[dgack]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

How much worse would the D have to be for you to place the majority of the blame on them for this miserable season??

The D has hit rock bottom. They have been gashed by just about every back they've faced, and they've given up a ton of big plays in the passing game. Outside of about 2-3 solid performances they've been downright awful, the worst overall D we've seen here in years.

I have no problem saying they are the main reason we are 5-10. No problem at all.

Allow me to join the not-quite-consensus-but-growing-mob who also have no problem saying the D is the reason we are 5-10.

[The Huddle]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

How much worse would the D have to be for you to place the majority of the blame on them for this miserable season??

The D has hit rock bottom. They have been gashed by just about every back they've faced, and they've given up a ton of big plays in the passing game. Outside of about 2-3 solid performances they've been downright awful, the worst overall D we've seen here in years.

I have no problem saying they are the main reason we are 5-10. No problem at all.

Okay, you don't have a problem saying the defense is the main reason the team is 5-10. I don't have a problem with you saying it either, even if I don't think it's entirely true.

I have acknowledged the the defense has been awful. It's certainly part of the equation...but come on. The Redskins have failed to score at least 20 points 9 times this season, and it would have been 10 if not for a garbage time touchdown against the Colts. That's bad, but what's worse is that they lost 7 of those 9 games. In three of them (first Giants game, first Cowboys game, first Philly game) the offense didn't score a touchdown. In two others, they only scored one.

This is the NFL. 20 points per game isn't a good offense, it's an average one. Now if you want to get into reasons why the offense hasn't been consistantly effective- Portis, Campbell, Saunders, poor execution, inept playcalling, whatever you like- that's an entirely seperate matter. But the bottom line is that week after week, drives have stalled and critical points have been lost.

Is the defense awful? Sure- but I'm still not buying the idea that this team's woes are due to the defense any more than the offense.

[dgack]

Originally Posted by The Huddle

This is the NFL. 20 points per game isn't a good offense, it's an average one. Now if you want to get into reasons why the offense hasn't been consistantly effective- Portis, Campbell, Saunders, poor execution, inept playcalling, whatever you like- that's an entirely seperate matter. But the bottom line is that week after week, drives have stalled and critical points have been lost.

Is the defense awful? Sure- but I'm still not buying the idea that this team's woes are due to the defense any more than the offense.

We're 5 or potentially 6 games worse than last year, and yet, with 1 game to go, are only 500 yards below last season's offensive output. We have put up ~40 yards less than the 13-2 Chicago Bears.

I just don't buy your argument. Of course we don't have a juggernaut offense this year. Didn't have one last year, either. Neither does Chicago have one. The big difference is that this year we don't have a defense that can make plays to help the offense. That IS a legitimate way to win in the NFL. I think you'll find a nearby team proved that strategy successful in 2000, with an offense just as average as this one.

[The Huddle]

Originally Posted by dgack

We're 5 or potentially 6 games worse than last year, and yet, with 1 game to go, are only 500 yards below last season's offensive output. We have put up ~40 yards less than the 13-2 Chicago Bears.

I just don't buy your argument. Of course we don't have a juggernaut offense this year. Didn't have one last year, either. Neither does Chicago have one. The big difference is that this year we don't have a defense that can make plays to help the offense. That IS a legitimate way to win in the NFL. I think you'll find a nearby team proved that strategy successful in 2000, with an offense just as average as this one.

No question that strategy has been sucessful elsewhere. And if we hadn't gone out and spend a huge wad of dough on Saunders' playbook and some new wideouts I'd be more inclined to believe that was the stretegy here all along. Implying that was the intended model at this point is a pretty tough sell.

Forget yards. Last year's team scored 359 points, or roughly 22 per game.
This year's team is only averaging about 18. That's notable for a team that's lost four games by a field goal or less. There's your difference between this year and last- or at least as much of a difference as your arguement makes in the other direction.

[Beemnseven]

If I had to break down the reasons for the team's failure this year percentage-wise, I'd say it's about 60% defense's fault to 40% for the offense.

[mheisig]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

If I had to break down the reasons for the team's failure this year percentage-wise, I'd say it's about 60% defense's fault to 40% for the offense.

Just to be an ass, I say it's 67% defense, 33% offense.

I'll explain my precise percentages at a later date.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by mheisig

Just to be an ass, I say it's 67% defense, 33% offense.

I'll explain my precise percentages at a later date.

I'd rank the defense with a bigger portion...but our biggest failure is our coaching. We have an all-star cast, we should have all star results and we don't.
Do I blame Saunders for the offense, and Williams for the defense? You bet I do...and I blame Gibbs for the overall performance.
Only Joe Bugel has done his job well. The rest have failed.
I am OK with giving them another shot because of their track records. Saunders warned us that it would take a full year to learn the offense. We didn't agree at the time, but now we agree. Williams had the Skins defense being a strong standard to the point that teams knew when they came to fed ex they had to face a good d. He's had injuries and poor play from areas, so he gets a mulligan on this season. Gibbs has yet to prove he can coach in the salary cap era, but he gave us a sniff last year, and he's worth giving another shot for the point that he's a hall of fame coach and he's done wonders for the Skins.
So let's put the blame where it needs to be...the coaches.

[dmek25]

Originally Posted by jsarno

So let's put the blame where it needs to be...the coaches.

whatever. this is a players league, and if you dont have the horses, or they dont execute, 6-10 happens

[Beemnseven]

I could go 65% to 35%, but I'll be damned if I budge from that.

[mheisig]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

I could go 65% to 35%, but I'll be damned if I budge from that.

If I threw in a mini-fridge could I talk you into 66% - 34%?

[budw38]

Originally Posted by dgack

We're 5 or potentially 6 games worse than last year, and yet, with 1 game to go, are only 500 yards below last season's offensive output. We have put up ~40 yards less than the 13-2 Chicago Bears.

I just don't buy your argument. Of course we don't have a juggernaut offense this year. Didn't have one last year, either. Neither does Chicago have one. The big difference is that this year we don't have a defense that can make plays to help the offense. That IS a legitimate way to win in the NFL. I think you'll find a nearby team proved that strategy successful in 2000, with an offense just as average as this one.

You do NOT get pionts in the NFL for yardage . We are terrible at getting the ball in the endzone , and unless you have a very stout defence , you will lose most of your games . I do agree the Defence is a bigger a problem , as they have no strength at all . poor vs the run , very little pass rush , poor coverage , poor tackling and very little quality depth . You are correct saying you can win with a Ravens 2000 offence , but only if you have a DOMINATING DEf. Most teams winning it all have great defences , but also score TD's .

[MTK]

Originally Posted by The Huddle

Okay, you don't have a problem saying the defense is the main reason the team is 5-10. I don't have a problem with you saying it either, even if I don't think it's entirely true.

I have acknowledged the the defense has been awful. It's certainly part of the equation...but come on. The Redskins have failed to score at least 20 points 9 times this season, and it would have been 10 if not for a garbage time touchdown against the Colts. That's bad, but what's worse is that they lost 7 of those 9 games. In three of them (first Giants game, first Cowboys game, first Philly game) the offense didn't score a touchdown. In two others, they only scored one.

This is the NFL. 20 points per game isn't a good offense, it's an average one. Now if you want to get into reasons why the offense hasn't been consistantly effective- Portis, Campbell, Saunders, poor execution, inept playcalling, whatever you like- that's an entirely seperate matter. But the bottom line is that week after week, drives have stalled and critical points have been lost.

Is the defense awful? Sure- but I'm still not buying the idea that this team's woes are due to the defense any more than the offense.

So we have an average offense - fine.

But the defense is horrible.

Therefore it's very easy to place more blame on the defense.

The defense is on pace for some quite dubious records, another indicator how just how piss poor they are.

[The Huddle]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

So we have an average offense - fine.

But the defense is horrible.

Therefore it's very easy to place more blame on the defense.

The defense is on pace for some quite dubious records, another indicator how just how piss poor they are.

Yes, I'm saying the offense is statistically average (slightly below, actually). However, it's failure at critical junctures during the season has been no less a factor in the team's record than the poor defensive play.
Football is as much a game of momentum as statistics, and this offense has never achieved any momentum.

This team is a mess top to bottom and front to back. It's certainly your prerogitive to blame the defense if you so chose, but I strongly dispute the "everyone knows the defense is to blame" (or words to that effect) sentiment that elicited my original post.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by The Huddle

Yes, I'm saying the offense is statistically average (slightly below, actually). However, it's failure at critical junctures during the season has been no less a factor in the team's record than the poor defensive play.
Football is as much a game of momentum as statistics, and this offense has never achieved any momentum.

This team is a mess top to bottom and front to back. It's certainly your prerogitive to blame the defense if you so chose, but I strongly dispute the "everyone knows the defense is to blame" (or words to that effect) sentiment that elicited my original post.

We have been pretty crappy in the red zone and on the fringe of field goal range. If you look at our drive stats, we are #20 or better in every per drive statisitc (yards per, points per, TDs per, turnovers per, INTs per, Fum Lost per) except punts per where we are 27th, and average starting field position where we are 23rd starting from the 29 yd line on average this season. So you have a point, but its incomplete.

Do you think we would have failed at so many juntures if we had been given better field position by the D? Face it, we don't force three and outs very often, most of the time we give up a score, or allow a drive that goes many times to midfield, and the ensuing punt pins us deep.

So how many consecutive 3rd downs can an offense be expected to convert? They, by nature, get progressively harder as the D gets less and less field to cover. So when the drive fizzles after 2-3 first downs, has the offense failed? That's opinional, but very few offenses can consistently get TDs when forced to go 80 yards.

Right now our O is right around where it was last year, but right now it has more direction than it did pre Saunders. Get a blocking TE, and either resign or replace Dock, and the offense is complete. The D needs a lot more work.