Civil Discussion About Religion

[dmek25]

and how religion and gambling come together....

[cpayne5]

This thread has maintained a level of calmness that few political threads do.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by Gmanc711

I wouldnt consider this a slap on the wrist, but everyone knows this was going to be a very sensitive thread to begin with, so just make sure no insults get thrown either way, because this will get out of hand real quick.

It's kind of ironic, you'd think this thread would lead to a flame fest, but everyone has been very cool calm and collected when it comes to religion so far. I however am fired up by the notion that there is a scam artist on the site.

First, the gambling and religion discussions are a wee bit related, it all started by Jsarno saying that there are gambling patterns in roulette that you just can't explain, just as there are religious things you just can't explain.

I'm just bothered by this guy coming on here, talking about a book he wrote on this system, how one day he'd like to publish and sell it, and at the same time he's not confident enough in his system to try to make any real money off of it. Is anybody else's moral compass thrown for a complete loop on that one, or is it just me?

I'm not calling for jsarno to get scolded. But I'm calling a spade a spade. He's full of crap.

[Redskins8588]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

When I hear that someone plans on selling a book on how to make money when it's completely bogus, the first thing I think of is "con artist."

I do not play roulette but to say that a person who plans on selling a book about their system is a "con-artist", well then the world must be filled with them.

Just about every gambling book ever written tells you how to "win" at what ever game you are playing.

For example:

Thirteen Against the Bank - Author: Norman Leigh
The True Story of How a Roulette Team Broke the Bank With an Unbeatable System.


Professional Roulette Prediction: Volume 1 - Basic Methods - Author: Laurance Scott
Product Description
Professional Roulette Prediction: Volume 1 - Basic Methods presents the author's time-tested visual prediction method in an easy-to-understand format and is the first step in becoming serious about playing roulette for money. This is the most comprehensive analysis of the game ever published, an expert-level methodology that will teach you to beat roulette by visually predicting the outcome. All aspects of the game are covered, from commonly asked questions to determining your edge to strategy implementation.

About the Author
Laurance Scott is a legend in the world of professional roulette, playing internationally for many years both on teams and for himself, and helping players with his books and consultations. Few devotees of the wheel have as much experience and knowledge as this enigmatic figure, and fewer still have dared to share their secrets with the public.


The Roulette Formula - Author: Kimo Li
How to Predict the Exact Number


Here are just three books that can be easily found on Amazon.com when you search roulette. All three books claim that they can beat the "roulette system". Therefore all three must be "con artists". Like I said I dont care about roulette at all but to call someone a "con artist" simply because you feel strongly that their "system" is flawed, that is no better than a jehovah witness comming to your door and pumping their faith to you...

[saden1]

Con-artist is definitely an extreme because it implies that the person is knowingly committing a crime. I don't think jsarno is trying to rob someone by pitching his system. Like everything else in life, things happen by chance, but then again smart risk taking yields people like Warren Buffet. The stock market a is a big game of chance after all.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by saden1

Con-artist is definitely an extreme because it implies that the person is knowingly committing a crime. I don't think jsarno is trying to rob someone by pitching his system. Like everything else in life, things happen by chance, but then again smart risk taking yields people like Warren Buffet. The stock market a is a big game of chance after all.

No it's not, not even close. You can make money in the stock market by knowing an industry and a particular business's operations very well. There is a degree of luck involved, but by and large, you can pick winning stocks if you're a brilliant business mind, like Warren Buffett. He's widely regarded as one of the smartest businessmen that's ever lived. Are you going to tell him he just got lucky??

Roulette involves guessing which number the ball's going to land on. You can't research that.

Anyone who writes a book on beating roullette is either a crook or a moron. Ask any Vegas casino, they'll tell you. Systems don't work. So the guy writing the book either knows systems don't work and wrote the book anyway, or he just doesn't understand roulette.

jsarno claimed his system ALWAYS works. But he hasn't tried it by betting any more than $5 at a time. If he truly felt his system was foolproof, there'd be no risk for him, and he would have made millions on it already. Seems like he knows it's bogus, otherwise he'd be betting thousands in Vegas as we speak.

[dmek25]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Roulette involves guessing which number the ball's going to land on. You can't research that.


jsarno claimed his system ALWAYS works. But he hasn't tried it by betting any more than $5 at a time. If he truly felt his system was foolproof, there'd be no risk for him, and he would have made millions on it already. Seems like he knows it's bogus, otherwise he'd be betting thousands in Vegas as we speak.

im not for judging people, or name calling. but i agree with this statement. if anyone had a foolproof way to make money, they would definitely use it and become rich

[Redskins8588]

Originally Posted by dmek25

im not for judging people, or name calling. but i agree with this statement. if anyone had a foolproof way to make money, they would definitely use it and become rich

Professional Roulette Prediction: Volume 1 - Basic Methods - Author: Laurance Scott
Product Description
Professional Roulette Prediction: Volume 1 - Basic Methods presents the author's time-tested visual prediction method in an easy-to-understand format and is the first step in becoming serious about playing roulette for money. This is the most comprehensive analysis of the game ever published, an expert-level methodology that will teach you to beat roulette by visually predicting the outcome. All aspects of the game are covered, from commonly asked questions to determining your edge to strategy implementation.

About the Author
Laurance Scott is a legend in the world of professional roulette, playing internationally for many years both on teams and for himself, and helping players with his books and consultations. Few devotees of the wheel have as much experience and knowledge as this enigmatic figure, and fewer still have dared to share their secrets with the public.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

No it's not, not even close. You can make money in the stock market by knowing an industry and a particular business's operations very well. There is a degree of luck involved, but by and large, you can pick winning stocks if you're a brilliant business mind, like Warren Buffett. He's widely regarded as one of the smartest businessmen that's ever lived. Are you going to tell him he just got lucky??

Roulette involves guessing which number the ball's going to land on. You can't research that.

Anyone who writes a book on beating roullette is either a crook or a moron. Ask any Vegas casino, they'll tell you. Systems don't work. So the guy writing the book either knows systems don't work and wrote the book anyway, or he just doesn't understand roulette.

jsarno claimed his system ALWAYS works. But he hasn't tried it by betting any more than $5 at a time. If he truly felt his system was foolproof, there'd be no risk for him, and he would have made millions on it already. Seems like he knows it's bogus, otherwise he'd be betting thousands in Vegas as we speak.

Warren Buffett is probably bad example as he does his homework before doing anything but the point I was making is that he too had luck on his side. When he was younger he took a lot of risk. Even with experience and analysis you're still taking a chance when you're buying stocks. I mean, how many businesses that exist today do you think will exist 100 years from now? Then of course you have market crashes (1929 ring a bell?). You just have to hope that when you retire we'll have a bull market. You can off course mitigate your risk by transitioning your money into safer investments as you near retirement age.

I personally don't believe in systems, but just maybe, jsarno's "system" is based on not risking with too much money. Playing now and then. Perhaps system is a bad word. How does strategy sound?

[RobH4413]

Originally Posted by saden1

Warren Buffett is probably bad example as he does his homework before doing anything but the point I was making is that he too had luck on his side. When he was younger he took a lot of risk. Even with experience and analysis you're still taking a chance when you're buying stocks. I mean, how many businesses that exist today do you think will exist 100 years from now? Then of course you have market crashes (1929 ring a bell?). You just have to hope that when you retire we'll have a bull market. You can off course mitigate your risk by transitioning your money into safer investments as you near retirement age.

I personally don't believe in systems, but just maybe, jsarno's "system" is based on not risking with too much money. Playing now and then. Perhaps system is a bad word. How does strategy sound?

It's not that hard to make money in the stock market. Companies are growing, and if you find a hot product, or trend... you help them get off the ground and you'll get rewarded for your investment.

You can also analyze trends of differente types of companies. Swing trading is as addictive as gambling, and people learn to identify the habits of certain stocks. There is definitly a rhyme and reason to it...
-----------------------------------------------
With gambling, to my knowledge there couldn't possibly be a rhyme or reason to it. That's the very reason they're in the casinos... they always make money.

Granted I'm sure it's possible they set up certain "Games" to attract you to the casino, only to have you shell that money out elsewhere... a different game... buying food... etc.

From what I've heard, Blackjack has the best odds... and the house will make money 9 times out of 10 anyways. Seems like a lost cause to try and "beat the system"... bunch of hooplah to try to get you out there and spend money. Sounds like a "myth" meant to ecourage you to become and addictive gambler. Have fun with that.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by saden1

Warren Buffett is probably bad example as he does his homework before doing anything but the point I was making is that he too had luck on his side. When he was younger he took a lot of risk. Even with experience and analysis you're still taking a chance when you're buying stocks. I mean, how many businesses that exist today do you think will exist 100 years from now? Then of course you have market crashes (1929 ring a bell?). You just have to hope that when you retire we'll have a bull market. You can off course mitigate your risk by transitioning your money into safer investments as you near retirement age.

I personally don't believe in systems, but just maybe, jsarno's "system" is based on not risking with too much money. Playing now and then. Perhaps system is a bad word. How does strategy sound?

When someone says that their system (or strategy, whatever, it's all semantics to me) ALWAYS works (in other words, NEVER FAILS), that means they think it provides a foolproof way to make money. And yet amazingly, he's not using it. It is the very definition of a sham.

Ever hear the expression "if it sounds too good to be true, it is"? This is a perfect example, and in my mind, this behavior is indefensible.

[RobH4413]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

When someone says that their system (or strategy, whatever, it's all semantics to me) ALWAYS works (in other words, NEVER FAILS), that means they think it provides a foolproof way to make money. And yet amazingly, he's not using it. It is the very definition of a sham.

Ever hear the expression "if it sounds too good to be true, it is"? This is a perfect example, and in my mind, this behavior is indefensible.

Schneed... I think your right... and I agree...but

I think you've made that point like 4 times (its all good)...

Some people choose to ignore reason, and using reason won't budge them. I'd let it go just cause it's not going anywhere...

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by RobH4413

Schneed... I think your right... and I agree...but

I think you've made that point like 4 times (its all good)...

Some people choose to ignore reason, and using reason won't budge them. I'd let it go just cause it's not going anywhere...

You're right. It's time to let go. Some people just don't get it.

If anyone out there wants to try jsarno's system, and really agree that it's foolproof, by all means, take your life savings to Vegas and go for it. According to him, it ALWAYS works.

Any takers?

Didn't think so.

[FRPLG]

Roulette is regarded as one of the worst odds in a casino. In other words it is a game that keeps the casino open because the odds are so stacked against the player as to gurantee that the player cannot win. To assert that there are any patterns in a clearly random game is foolish. Every spin is independent of all other spins and therefore logical and reasonable statistics can be used to show how it is IMPOSSIBLE for someone to play roulette for the long term and make money at it. It is VERY POSSIBLE to play roulette on a very short term basis and make money simply due to luck but eventually that luck will wear out. Everything evens out in the end. The stats do not lie. To assert that there is a system that can predict what number or color or whatever is coming is simply dumb. I am sorry but your system sounds like you have just been fantastically lucky if it has 'worked' for you.

And all those books someone posted about roulette are like someone else said either written by a moron or by someone who is dishonest.

[724Skinsfan]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

Roulette is regarded as one of the worst odds in a casino. In other words it is a game that keeps the casino open because the odds are so stacked against the player as to gurantee that the player cannot win. To assert that there are any patterns in a clearly random game is foolish. Every spin is independent of all other spins and therefore logical and reasonable statistics can be used to show how it is IMPOSSIBLE for someone to play roulette for the long term and make money at it. It is VERY POSSIBLE to play roulette on a very short term basis and make money simply due to luck but eventually that luck will wear out. Everything evens out in the end. The stats do not lie. To assert that there is a system that can predict what number or color or whatever is coming is simply dumb. I am sorry but your system sounds like you have just been fantastically lucky if it has 'worked' for you.

And all those books someone posted about roulette are like someone else said either written by a moron or by someone who is dishonest.

This is assuming you're wagering on anything other than red or black. As Schneed pointed out earlier, you're chances of landing on red or black are 47 or 48.xxx (I forget exactly). As far as gambling goes those odds ain't half bad. If you wager on a specific color and use probability to figure out the chances of a specific color being rolled out of say 6 or 7 times then you increase your chance of winning provided that you cover all of your total losses thus far on each subsequent wager until your fixed color (red or black) finally comes up. With this simple method you're gambling that your color will come up 1 out of 6 or 7 times. If you win you start the wagering process all over again. The only times you get screwed is if your color doesn't come up after a 7th roll. Again, you're just playing the odds that your color will come up eventually. Whether you have the financial resources to keep up is another story. Regardless, it's not foolproof and you can get burned if your color doesn't come up (10 straight reds or 6 reds followed by 0 then followed by 3 more reds).

Out of 7 consecutive rolls, you're wagering would look something like this: $5, $10, $20, $40, $80, $160, $320. If you play a fixed color the entire time and finally that color comes up you'll win $5 dollars. It's slow and tedious but fairly effective.