6 WEEKS AGO: Trade Ramsey, Bench/trade Gardner

[Defensewins]

Originally Posted by Gmanc711

..... No one can come here and say that Tim Hasslebeck should be starting for this team over Patrick Ramsey, and actually mean it......

This is exactly the kind of commnet that irks me about some of the rabid Ramsey fans. Some of you folks are so blind in defending Ramsey, that you say some outlandish things.
The guy with the most physical talent is not always the best QB/football player. Just because Patrick Ramsey has a stronger arm does not make him a better QB.
Look at New England for example. Drew Bledsoe, the first overall pick in the 1993 Draft. He has been to been to a couple superbowls and been elected to a couple of probowls. His arm strength is unquestionable.
Drew is struggling and gets hurt. In comes Tom Brady, a sixth round draft pick (last round) that was not even a starter in college until his senior year. Tom Brady does not have a strong arm like Bledsoe. But he is a smart football player and QB. Brady excels at reading defense's and making good/quick decsions (frequently compared to Montana).
Even after Brady helped New England win their 1st superbowl there was still half the patriots fans that wanted Bledsoe to start again because he is a better athlete and has a stronger arm. I think some of you might falling into this mind set. Bledsoe is now with Buffalo and still holds on to the ball to long. Brady won yet another super bowl.

[memphisskin]

[QUOTE=Defensewins]This is exactly the kind of commnet that irks me about some of the rabid Ramsey fans. Some of you folks are so blind in defending Ramsey, that you say some outlandish things.
The guy with the most physical talent is not always the best QB/football player. Just because Patrick Ramsey has a stronger arm does not make him a better QB.
Look at New England for example. QUOTE]

I feel you on the Bledsoe/Ramsey comparison, but Bledsoe was a 7th year vet. You knew what you were getting with him. I've seen at least five different incarnations of Ramsey, I don't think anyone could peg down his style of play, unless you say it's "confused". And anytime anyone wants to bring up the Hasselbeck as a starter routine, I bring up last year's Dallas game in which he spotted Terrence Newman running free three times.

Should Hasselbeck get a shot? Unless the top two guys get hurt, I don't see how. You've got one qb who we just signed to a $43 million dollar deal. At second string you've got a 3rd year guy who was a former #1 pick. I think 2 games is an awfully short leash to start pulling for the #3 guy. If Brunell and Ramsey were singlehandedly holding the team back, maybe. But the problem yesterday was the entire offense. Wideouts dropped routine passes, Portis fumbles twice after fumbling 3 times all of last season, blocking assignments were blown (one of which on the last play of the game with only three rushers).

[Gmanc711]

Originally Posted by Defensewins

Look at New England for example. Drew Bledsoe, the first overall pick in the 1993 Draft. He has been to been to a couple superbowls and been elected to a couple of probowls. His arm strength is unquestionable.
Drew is struggling and gets hurt. In comes Tom Brady, a sixth round draft pick (last round) that was not even a starter in college until his senior year. Tom Brady does not have a strong arm like Bledsoe. But he is a smart football player and QB. Brady excels at reading defense's and making good/quick decsions (frequently compared to Montana).
Even after Brady helped New England win their 1st superbowl there was still half the patriots fans that wanted Bledsoe to start again because he is a better athlete and has a stronger arm. I think some of you might falling into this mind set. Bledsoe is now with Buffalo and still holds on to the ball to long. Brady won yet another super bowl.

If Tim Hasslebeck had Tom Brady's Record, there wouldnt be this conversation. But he is 1-5 as a starter. Brady lost I belive 1 start the year he took over for Bledsoe, he went 9-7 the next year and then won another Superbowl. Tim played well, dont get me wrong, but we didnt win.

[Hogskin]

Originally Posted by Gmanc711

If Tim Hasslebeck had Tom Brady's Record, there wouldnt be this conversation. But he is 1-5 as a starter. Brady lost I belive 1 start the year he took over for Bledsoe, he went 9-7 the next year and then won another Superbowl. Tim played well, dont get me wrong, but we didnt win.

On the surface that sounds like a good argument, but there is a lot more to winning than the QB. (Just ask Sonny Jurgenson, one of the best pure passers ever). That NE team was a WHOLE lot better, especially on defense, and had a WHOLE lot better coaching staff, top to bottom. All you can take from TH's games from last year are a look at his skills. And you can get very little from that, because he did not go through training camp and had VERY little practice with the team prior to his first start. All I would say about TH is he should get another look at some point, especially after having what seemed like a successful training camp. But we know a lot more than that about PR. It just seems that some of us have different opinions of what we have seen the past 25 months.

[Gmanc711]

Originally Posted by Hogskin

But we know a lot more than that about PR. It just seems that some of us have different opinions of what we have seen the past 25 months.

I agree. It looks like next Monday we can all sit back and hopefully see what he can do. Cause the early reports are that they are expect Ramsey to start next week.

[Defensewins]

Originally Posted by Gmanc711

If Tim Hasslebeck had Tom Brady's Record, there wouldnt be this conversation. But he is 1-5 as a starter. Brady lost I belive 1 start the year he took over for Bledsoe, he went 9-7 the next year and then won another Superbowl. Tim played well, dont get me wrong, but we didnt win.

I was only referring to the similarities in the style of QB's, not records. Brady was 0-0 as a starter when he took over for Bledsoe, so what does win - loss records have to do with anything? It is not always about win-loss when you rate a QB, but how well the QB played. Your QB can play perfect and your defense can lose the game. Which is exactly the opposite of what happened to the Redskins on Sunday.
In my comparison was just referring to the similarities of playing styles of the QB's.
Bledsoe/Ramsey are 1 st round picks with strong arms; big guys that are not very mobile. They also both like to hold on to the ball too long and have been accused of being slow at deciding where to throw it. They also are not good at just throwing the ball away when all their receivers are covered. they sometimes force a throw that leads to an interception. They both get sacked alot (from holding the ball to long-coverage sacks). But they are both very good at throwing the long passes. They are head cases. Their decision making skills are not very good right now. What is holding tham back is not their physical skiis, it is their mental skills.

Brady/Hasselbeck were unwanted players coming out of college. They do not have the strongest arms. They are mobile. They are quick to get rid of the ball. They have quick release. They are better at the short to intermediate passes. Not good with the long ball. The comparisons stop there though, Brady has deveploped into one of the best QB's in the game. Hasselbeck is lucky to still be in the NFL. But Gibbs likes him and he will get a shot sometime.
It is telling that after watching extensive film of the Redskins of the last two years, Gibbs decided to go out and get Brunnell. He commited alot of money to him as well. I think that tells you Ramsey has been slow to develop and is not ready.