Why all the complaining?

[dgack]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Every team has injuries and you can't use them as an excuse. I get soooooooooooooooooooooooo tired of people complaining that we have a banged up O-line. Wade is getting starter money. Fabini has been a starter in the league for a long time. Deal with it!!!!

You know what, though? I listened to the injury report today and it sounds like every team is getting hit in multiple places. They specifically mentioned the Skins in that report, and mentioned we're facing New England next week. You know how many players they mentioned in the NE injury report?

None.

So yeah, it does happen to every team, but some teams also just seem to have a knack for avoiding the bug better than others.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by dgack

You know what, though? I listened to the injury report today and it sounds like every team is getting hit in multiple places. They specifically mentioned the Skins in that report, and mentioned we're facing New England next week. You know how many players they mentioned in the NE injury report?

None.

So yeah, it does happen to every team, but some teams also just seem to have a knack for avoiding the bug better than others.

A good part of the year NE has been playing w/out Seymour who is one of the best D-linemen in the NFL. Also they played w/out Harrison for 4 games and they also were w/out Maroney for several weeks.

[dgack]

Originally Posted by Cowell

A wins a win, that is true. I would rather have the win then anything. I think we are complaining because despite our record (which I'm not arguing with either) we have so many problems. We all know we have the talent on this team to be more than an average team, but somehow we find a way to negate that talent. That's why we are complaining. With the talent on this team that game shouldn't have been close at all, dumb penalties or not.

People need to get a grip. A win is a win. Everybody wants to talk about the good old days, but you know what? We had just as many squeakers back in the Gibbs championship years.

In '87, for example, we beat the Cowboys twice, by a combined total of 10 points. That Dallas team finished 7-8. We beat the Jets by a point, and that team was dead last in their division at 6-9. We beat the Vikes by 3 and they finished one game over .500. The Giants were dead last in the division and one of our wins over them was by four points. We also lost 4 games, by 1, 4, 4, and 2 points, respectively.

It's cliche, but you know the line: any given Sunday. The Ravens found that out today. We didn't. Considering that we played better than GB did last week and still lost, I consider this week's game a much more favorable result.

[Beemnseven]

I'm probably in the minority here, but for some reason I think we'd still have most of the same offensive problems even if our offensive line was completely healthy.

Portis isn't hitting on all cylinders, Betts hasn't really picked up the slack the way he did last season, and Moss is in a funk. Overall, there just doesn't seem to be much intensity with the players, chemistry between teammates, and general disorganization with coaching.

And no, I never expected us to be on the level of the Patriots.

[dgack]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

A good part of the year NE has been playing w/out Seymour who is one of the best D-linemen in the NFL. Also they played w/out Harrison for 4 games and they also were w/out Maroney for several weeks.

Harrison used to be a stud, but he is definitely on the downside of his career. Sammy Morris has been more productive than Maroney, similar to how Betts stepped in for Portis last year. I don't think those situations really equate to some of the other injury scenarios other teams have faced.

And hasn't Seymour been injury-plagued his whole career, a la John Abraham?

[SouperMeister]

Originally Posted by rypper11

My predicted score was off a little but my Warpath prediction was right on. Bitching from the masses about "conservitive gamecalling" and "Gibbs and Saunders holding JC back" even though we win. I am so tired of so-called fans crying that they want wide open offense and a completely stifling Defense. Of course JC should be able to throw for 300 yards a game and Portis run for another 200 because that's what they do on Madden 08 every week. "Take the handcuffs off JC" and "open up the offense". This is a tired and ridiculous decree from people who obviously prefer the AFL over the NFL. For the people who refuse to accept that having only 2 of five opening day starters healthy along the Oline and hate the "conservative playcalling", watch the Lions, Bengals and Colts. They are far more exciting though with various degrees of a winning record. Even Manning has looked human with Tarek Glenn retired.
For those who are just waiting for the Philadelphia Soul to retake the field and would rather lose 49-48 than win 3-0, please just tune into the NBA or better yet play Madden 08 and tell all your friends that you could take the Dolphins to the SuperBowl if only you had the job.

You're missing the point. Yes, the Skins won, but with yet another lead at the half, they had their asses handed to them in the 2nd half, and were extremely fortunate to win. What you, me, and every Skins fan wants to see is reasonable progress and production from the offense. Three 3 and outs in the last three posessions with the game on the line just won't get it done most weeks. It was obvious that the power running game wasn't working, and the Cards weren't respecting anything deep, so why not go to three and four WR sets to spread the field? Maybe open up more running lanes that way. Something, anything, show us a little creativity when the original plan isn't working. To me, it appears that we're coaching scared on offense. Thank God for Gregg Williams D, but even that won't be enough against the Pats if Gibbs is content to play for a 17-14 game.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by SouperMeister

You're missing the point. Yes, the Skins won, but with yet another lead at the half, they had their asses handed to them in the 2nd half, and were extremely fortunate to win. What you, me, and every Skins fan wants to see is resonable progress and production from the offense. Three 3 and outs in the last three posessions with the game on the line just won't get it done most weeks. It was obvious that the power running game wasn't working, and the Cards weren't respecting anything deep, so why not go to three and four WR sets to spread the field? Maybe open up more running lanes that way. Something, anything, show us a little creativity when the original plan isn't working. To me, it appears that we're coaching scared on offense. Thank God for Gregg Williams D, but even that won't be enough against the Pats if Gibbs is content to play for a 17-14 game.

Couldn't have said it better.

I've been an Al Saunders defender from the beginning, but by this point, I really expected to more ingenuity from his playcalling and scheming.

Perhaps my expectations were a bit high.

[skinsguy]

Ok. So, I'm hearing people complain about Al Saunders. Fine. You guys were the ones who said we needed an offensive coordinator other than Joe Gibbs. What difference has it made? At least we made the playoffs under Gibbs' offense. And, that was an offense with Mark Brunell at quarterback, and with one goto receiver in Santana Moss.

So, knowing those facts, if we have all the offensive weapons now that we didn't have in '05, why wouldn't Joe Gibbs' offense work now? Don't get me wrong, until our record falls under .500 and we miss the playoffs again, I will continue to support this team and the coaches. But, I do believe the FO has done just about everything that the fans have asked them to do, and the fans still don't like it.

[SC Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

A good part of the year NE has been playing w/out Seymour who is one of the best D-linemen in the NFL. Also they played w/out Harrison for 4 games and they also were w/out Maroney for several weeks.

Dude, you refuted your own argument. Injuries are not injuries. The Skins have lost two starting offensive linemen for the year and then Wade got hurt last week and was playing with an injured groin this week. Rabach went down last week and didn't play. Pete Kendall is apparently dealing with a hamstring problem and played at less than 100%. So the Skins played with two of the five guys they started the year with and two of the five that did play were playing hurt. If you lose a d-lineman, an RB, and a safety that hurts (but not to the Pats) but if you lose freaking three offensive linemen that f's up your whole offense. Show me another team playing with a patchwork line like the Skins? Oh yeah, the 0-7 Rams and the Ravens. Either of those offenses doing anything at all? The o-line makes the whole thing go man and you lose all those players and it changes everything on offense.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

Couldn't have said it better.

I've been an Al Saunders defender from the beginning, but by this point, I really expected to more ingenuity from his playcalling and scheming.

Perhaps my expectations were a bit high.

While Saunders calls the plays, Gibbs sets the game plan and he and Campbell basically said in the postgame that they had a conservative gameplan. Gibbs even said, 'We probably could have taken a few more shots out there, but we were happy with what we were doing.'

Campbell was asked by Kelli Johnson outside the locker room about not throwing downfield at all & he alluded to the gameplan not having many of those plays in it this week.

I don't really care to see JC dropping back and heaving it 30 yds downfield every series, but he's got to take 2-3 shots a game and not completely ignore the middle of the field all game. Success in today's NFL is 12-16 yds downfield over the middle but we seem to always be focused outside the hashes and up the sidelines..

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by SC Skins Fan

Dude, you refuted your own argument. Injuries are not injuries. The Skins have lost two starting offensive linemen for the year and then Wade got hurt last week and was playing with an injured groin this week. Rabach went down last week and didn't play. Pete Kendall is apparently dealing with a hamstring problem and played at less than 100%. So the Skins played with two of the five guys they started the year with and two of the five that did play were playing hurt. If you lose a d-lineman, an RB, and a safety that hurts (but not to the Pats) but if you lose freaking three offensive linemen that f's up your whole offense. Show me another team playing with a patchwork line like the Skins? Oh yeah, the 0-7 Rams and the Ravens. Either of those offenses doing anything at all? The o-line makes the whole thing go man and you lose all those players and it changes everything on offense.

Finally! Someone who gets it! Good post! :thumb:

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by skinsguy

Ok. So, I'm hearing people complain about Al Saunders. Fine. You guys were the ones who said we needed an offensive coordinator other than Joe Gibbs. What difference has it made? At least we made the playoffs under Gibbs' offense. And, that was an offense with Mark Brunell at quarterback, and with one goto receiver in Santana Moss.

So, knowing those facts, if we have all the offensive weapons now that we didn't have in '05, why wouldn't Joe Gibbs' offense work now? Don't get me wrong, until our record falls under .500 and we miss the playoffs again, I will continue to support this team and the coaches. But, I do believe the FO has done just about everything that the fans have asked them to do, and the fans still don't like it.

I never said that. I applauded the move, and I thought it was a good sign of Gibbs' willingness to change. But no, I was not one to say that Gibbs was over it and should hand the playcalling duties to someone else.

I've been a defender of the coaches from the beginning. Not once, even through the nightmare of the 2006 season did I call for any of the coaches to get canned. Even if we struggle with a mundane offense and finish with a record of around 8-8, I'd still say that Saunders deserves at least one more year to fully implement his offensive plan along with the further development of Campbell.

But at the same time, I don't think it would be unfair to say that this offense isn't anywhere near what Al Saunders really wants.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

While Saunders calls the plays, Gibbs sets the game plan and he and Campbell basically said in the postgame that they had a conservative gameplan. Gibbs even said, 'We probably could have taken a few more shots out there, but we were happy with what we were doing.'

And that's what I find troubling ...

[SouperMeister]

Originally Posted by skinsguy

Ok. So, I'm hearing people complain about Al Saunders. Fine. You guys were the ones who said we needed an offensive coordinator other than Joe Gibbs. What difference has it made? At least we made the playoffs under Gibbs' offense. And, that was an offense with Mark Brunell at quarterback, and with one goto receiver in Santana Moss.

So, knowing those facts, if we have all the offensive weapons now that we didn't have in '05, why wouldn't Joe Gibbs' offense work now? Don't get me wrong, until our record falls under .500 and we miss the playoffs again, I will continue to support this team and the coaches. But, I do believe the FO has done just about everything that the fans have asked them to do, and the fans still don't like it.

What I saw today was a lot more Joe Gibbs conservatism in the game plan than the Al Saunders offenses that I remember from STL and KC. I'm fine with conservatism if it's working. It was a beautiful thing when Portis bludgeoned teams down the stretch of '05, but we are not seeing the kind of production with that approach for THIS team. If conservatism is not working, I'd like to see more of a Saunders-styled game plan, that often used the passing game to set up subsequent running success in his previous stops. This would have been a 14 point win with any second half production from the offense.

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

I never said that. I applauded the move, and I thought it was a good sign of Gibbs' willingness to change. But no, I was not one to say that Gibbs was over it and should hand the playcalling duties to someone else.

My statement was a general statement toward a high majority of Redskins fans who kept crying in '05 for a new OC. But, I would assume if one applauded the move, then one supported it. I, personally, felt it was the wrong move. We made the playoffs under Joe Gibbs' offense with less weapons and a quarterback who most complained couldn't pass deep. We obviously have more offensive weapons now, so it seems to me it would've made more sense to have gotten the guys we had gotten (minus Brandon Lloyd,) and kept the same offense that took us deep into the playoffs the year before.

But, I did (and still do) go along with it, because Gibbs did state that Saunders was brought in to enhance the existing offense, but not to completely go away from it. So again, I ask, if we haven't went away from the offense we had purely with Gibbs, we should've just kept Gibbs offense in and focused on that.