Gibbs

[irish]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I think you're greatly underestimating/ignoring what we have done with the draft.

I think they have done a decent job with 1st round picks but after that they dont really have any pics so they cant build any foundation. Anyone that remotely follows college ball can make decent 1st round picks, it the later rounds that provide the foundation & depth all consistent winners in the nfl have.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by irish

I think they have done a decent job with 1st round picks but after that they dont really have any pics so they cant build any foundation. Anyone that remotely follows college ball can make decent 1st round picks, it the later rounds that provide the foundation & depth all consistent winners in the nfl have.

You're making this argument in another thread and it kind of baffles me quite honestly

And also, what rounds do you think McIntosh, Cooley, Blades, Golston, Montgomery were all drafted in?

[irish]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

You're making this argument in another thread and it kind of baffles me quite honestly

And also, what rounds do you think McIntosh, Cooley, Blades, Golston, Montgomery were all drafted in?

I'm not saying the Skins dont have any but out of all those rounds and picks you can name 5, 3 of which are barely recognizable as Skins.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by irish

I'm not saying the Skins dont have any but out of all those rounds and picks you can name 5, 3 of which are barely recognizable as Skins.

It's an area that needs improvement for sure. I guess just from the tone of your posts it seems like you're saying they have none which of course is untrue

[irish]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

It's an area that needs improvement for sure. I guess just from the tone of your posts it seems like you're saying they have none which of course is untrue

It sure does. I dont think I said none and I didnt mean to imply that if I did. They just dont have very many and from what I have seen consistently successful teams do.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

You're making this argument in another thread and it kind of baffles me quite honestly

And also, what rounds do you think McIntosh, Cooley, Blades, Golston, Montgomery were all drafted in?

And these players represent the reasons why we shouldn't piss away 3rd and 4th round picks for guys like TJ Duckett and Brandon Lloyd.

[offiss]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

You're making this argument in another thread and it kind of baffles me quite honestly

And also, what rounds do you think McIntosh, Cooley, Blades, Golston, Montgomery were all drafted in?

Montgomery, Golston, and Blades? I think because a player that Gibbs drafts actually sees the playing field he's immediately headed for canton, give me a break, Cooley we had to give away picks because of Gibbs trade for Portis, and same thing with Rocky because of campbell, Cooley is tremendous, take a look at the kid Oakland took in the second rd same as Rocky, Thomas Howard, so far he's been better than Rocky. Even the players that pan out we over pay for, and out of all those players you named Cooley is the only bonified player, rocky hasn't done nearly enough for any one to hang their hats on him.

Bottom line if Gibbs has done a good job with the draft then there is no reason for our 5-11 season last year, nore should we be sitting at 5-4 this season, especially with so many older players still having to carry the load, as in Daniels, and Griffen.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by offiss

Montgomery, Golston, and Blades? I think because a player that Gibbs drafts actually sees the playing field he's immediately headed for canton, give me a break, Cooley we had to give away picks because of Gibbs trade for Portis, and same thing with Rocky because of campbell, Cooley is tremendous, take a look at the kid Oakland took in the second rd same as Rocky, Thomas Howard, so far he's been better than Rocky. Even the players that pan out we over pay for, and out of all those players you named Cooley is the only bonified player, rocky hasn't done nearly enough for any one to hang their hats on him.

Bottom line if Gibbs has done a good job with the draft then there is no reason for our 5-11 season last year, nore should we be sitting at 5-4 this season, especially with so many older players still having to carry the load, as in Daniels, and Griffen.

Remember when the Pats drafted Laurence Maroney with Joseph Addai still on the board?

I guess Pioli is a terrible GM, huh?

[offiss]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Remember when the Pats drafted Laurence Maroney with Joseph Addai still on the board?

I guess Pioli is a terrible GM, huh?

Are you saying Maroney is a bust? Addai right now is having a better start to his carreer, but Maroney is as, or more talented a RB, he defiently needs to stay healthy to prove it but that guy can play.

[BleedBurgundy]

Originally Posted by offiss

Are you saying Maroney is a bust? Addai right now is having a better start to his carreer, but Maroney is as, or more talented a RB, he defiently needs to stay healthy to prove it but that guy can play.

I think his quote was in response to your post regarding the comparison between McIntosh and the oakland lb. They're both solid players, just because one has slightly out performed the other to this point doesn't mean that their careers will end up that way. I think we've seen alot out of Rocky to be excited about in the future regardless of what the oak rb does.

If you use the justification that if player A was picked in round 5 and player B was picked in round 7, and player B turns out to be an equal or better pro, that therefore player A was a bad pick regardless of his overall quality, I think it's a flawed arguement.

Whew that sentence is confusing but I think you get my point. Using the same logic a qb who is equal or less than Tom Brady that was picked in the 5th round or earlier is a bad pick because another team got more value in a later round. I don't think that judging it like that is representative of the true value of a player/pick.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by offiss

Montgomery, Golston, and Blades? I think because a player that Gibbs drafts actually sees the playing field he's immediately headed for canton, give me a break, Cooley we had to give away picks because of Gibbs trade for Portis, and same thing with Rocky because of campbell, Cooley is tremendous, take a look at the kid Oakland took in the second rd same as Rocky, Thomas Howard, so far he's been better than Rocky. Even the players that pan out we over pay for, and out of all those players you named Cooley is the only bonified player, rocky hasn't done nearly enough for any one to hang their hats on him.

Bottom line if Gibbs has done a good job with the draft then there is no reason for our 5-11 season last year, nore should we be sitting at 5-4 this season, especially with so many older players still having to carry the load, as in Daniels, and Griffen.

We're talking about a foundation for the future. Beyond the 1st rounders (Landry, Campbell, Taylor, Rogers) we have, in my opinion, selected players in later rounds that are a foundation for future. Such as the ones mentioned above.

There's vast room for improvement, no question. But it's not as dismal as some think.

[Beemnseven]

Even as I've been a harsh critic of Gibbs the personnel man, I give him credit for picks like Golston and Montgomery, - those are legitimate gems unearthed in what has traditionally been No Man's Land in Washington: the 5th, 6th, and 7th round of the NFL draft.

What bothers me more, is the expansive foundation Gibbs could have laid without giving away 3rd and 4th round draft picks as though they were ketchup packs at Burger King. In addition to the fact that those are picks we gave away for a guy who's not even here! Duckett lasted one season and was inactive for weeks! And Brandon Lloyd is right behind him.

The hideous repercussions of those moves far outweigh any positive personnel move he's made. If he were any other man than Joe Gibbs, on any other team that made that kind of outrageous mistake, he'd have been fired on the spot.

Has it crossed anybody's mind that maybe with all of those picks, the replacements for Jon Jansen, Randy Thomas, Sean Taylor or Santana Moss might have been able to contribute this season when we're getting hammered by injuries?

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

Even as I've been a harsh critic of Gibbs the personnel man, I give him credit for picks like Golston and Montgomery, - those are legitimate gems unearthed in what has traditionally been No Man's Land in Washington: the 5th, 6th, and 7th round of the NFL draft.

What bothers me more, is the expansive foundation Gibbs could have laid without giving away 3rd and 4th round draft picks as though they were ketchup packs at Burger King. In addition to the fact that those are picks we gave away for a guy who's not even here! Duckett lasted one season and was inactive for weeks! And Brandon Lloyd is right behind him.

The hideous repercussions of those moves far outweigh any positive personnel move he's made. If he were any other man than Joe Gibbs, on any other team that made that kind of outrageous mistake, he'd have been fired on the spot.

Has it crossed anybody's mind that maybe with all of those picks, the replacements for Jon Jansen, Randy Thomas, Sean Taylor or Santana Moss might have been able to contribute this season when we're getting hammered by injuries?

Exactly. I think a big reason injuries seem to devastate us so much is the lack of quality depth to fill in the holes. A prime example is how well middle round picks are contributing for us right now (Golston, Montgomery, Cooley, Blades, etc). Another handful of guys like that and our injury bug might not sting as much.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by GMScud

Exactly. I think a big reason injuries seem to devastate us so much is the lack of quality depth to fill in the holes. A prime example is how well middle round picks are contributing for us right now (Golston, Montgomery, Cooley, Blades, etc). Another handful of guys like that and our injury bug might not sting as much.

The lack of middle round picks definitely hurts our depth. However, the lack of middle round picks may hurt us even more by forcing us to turn our roster over. Without such middle round picks, we are forced to bring in aging vets to fill holes that those middle round picks would fill. In the short run, those aging vets typically play better than rookies and younger players. In the long run, however, bringing in guys when they already have 5 years under their belts forces us to turn the roster over more frequently. The average age of our players is 29 (among the oldest, if not the oldest, average in the league). 20 players on our roster are at least 30 years old (compared with 6 such players on the Cowboys' roster). Nearly half of our starters are at least 30 years old (i.e., Springs, Fletcher, Washington, Daniels, Griffin, Samuels, Kendall, Rabach, Thomas, Jansen). I don't know how others feel, but I definitely believe that such turnover isn't a good thing.

[Crazyhorse1]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

We're talking about a foundation for the future. Beyond the 1st rounders (Landry, Campbell, Taylor, Rogers) we have, in my opinion, selected players in later rounds that are a foundation for future. Such as the ones mentioned above.

There's vast room for improvement, no question. But it's not as dismal as some think.

It's dismal. We're brittle and old. We have major work to do on both the OL and the DL, as well as at WR and CB. Springs and Smoot are injuries waiting to happen and Rogers looks bad. I thought Betts was going to be a top player after last year, but he's barely adequate as a back-up RB and Portis is becoming injured on a regular basis.