ST Murder Investigation Thread

[BrunellMVP?]

Originally Posted by ingibbswetrust

This is a post on extreme skins (not my own). The only thing that doenst make sense to me, is that the bedroom door was supposedly kicked down. Midnight robbers dont kick down doors, they tiptoe around a house and make as little noise as possible. However, I read somewhere else that the actual shooting took place in the hallway outside the bedroom. If this is true then maybe it was just somebody trying to get into his safe. Perhaps, they tried to use a kitchen knife on the safe the first time round and accidentally forgot it on the bed?

"I dont think this was a hit anymore. Think about it.
1. If it was a hit, dont you think that the shots would have been to his body or head?
2. If this was purposeful, why would the assilant leave a witness to the shooting. he has alreay proven he has no repect for life, so why not kill the rest of the family?
3. If this was a hit, why did they not stick around to make sure the victim was finished?

Here is what I think went down...

The week prior, these same theives broke into Seans home looking for loot. Seeing there was nothing of value out in the open, they naturally went for the safe. Safe was locked and they could not get inot it. They leave the premesis.
One week later, they come back with the correct tools to finishe the job. Assuming noone is home again (remember... Sean was not supposed to be there. He decided last minute to get a second opinion on his knee from his personal doctor the same day) they broke into the home again. This time, they knew where the safe was and headed straight for it. But instead of finding an empty bedroom, they ran into a crazed man with a machete, trying to defend his family. They shoot blindly (due to the shock) and get one in his leg/groin and flee the scene.

A true unfortunate set of events. I feel sorry the family, but I dont htink Sean had many enemies that were out to kill him.

Thats my take anyway. I could be wrong. Either way, Sean will me missed."

I could buy this theory but what about the knife left on the pillow the first go round? are they really that sloppy? Seems like a message...but at the same point, it also appears too unprofessional to a hit (based upon what i've read). The leg wound is odd, could it have been a reaction to seeing a man with a machete as you surmise? Could it have been a deliberate shot to end the career, and not necessarily the life of a football player? I'm not sure...

[BleedBurgundy]

Originally Posted by BrunellMVP?

I could buy this theory but what about the knife left on the pillow the first go round? are they really that sloppy? Seems like a message...but at the same point, it also appears too unprofessional to a hit (based upon what i've read). The leg wound is odd, could it have been a reaction to seeing a man with a machete as you surmise? Could it have been a deliberate shot to end the career, and not necessarily the life of a football player? I'm not sure...

I want to make a statement here. Unlike the movies, no one shoots anyone to wound. Especially when that someone is a two hundred plus pound, 6'2" world class athlete with a machete. If someone had the accuracy to hit his groin while he was coming at them, they wouldn't of missed with the second shot. It's just not plausible. IF they were going to shoot to wound and leave a message, there would have been the requisite amount of guys to subdue him after which he would have been secured, then shot wherever they wanted at point blank range.

[BrunellMVP?]

Originally Posted by BleedBurgundy

I want to make a statement here. Unlike the movies, no one shoots anyone to wound. Especially when that someone is a two hundred plus pound, 6'2" world class athlete with a machete. If someone had the accuracy to hit his groin while he was coming at them, they wouldn't of missed with the second shot. It's just not plausible. IF they were going to shoot to wound and leave a message, there would have been the requisite amount of guys to subdue him after which he would have been secured, then shot wherever they wanted at point blank range.

Fair enough...so if they aren't trying to wound him, you must believe it was an accident right? i guess i can buy that as well, but i still find the knife left on the bed curious...perhaps they are just that lazy/sloppy.

[BleedBurgundy]

Originally Posted by BrunellMVP?

Fair enough...so if they aren't trying to wound him, you must believe it was an accident right? i guess i can buy that as well, but i still find the knife left on the bed curious...perhaps they are just that lazy/sloppy.

No, I don't believe it was an accident. I believe it was a hit intended to kill. My arguement is just because he got shot in the leg/groin, it doesn't mean that he wasn't meant to die. I think the person who did this probably wasn't exactly a trained marksman. I think they didn't expect a big ass man with a machete and they shot twice and got the F out of there. They probably thought they'd break through the door and catch him in bed.

[BrunellMVP?]

Originally Posted by BleedBurgundy

No, I don't believe it was an accident. I believe it was a hit intended to kill. My arguement is just because he got shot in the leg/groin, it doesn't mean that he wasn't meant to die. I think the person who did this probably wasn't exactly a trained marksman. I think they didn't expect a big ass man with a machete and they shot twice and got the F out of there. They probably thought they'd break through the door and catch him in bed.

I think you make a lot of sense...

I was sifting through another site I like...just a fan...and he has many of the same questions we do...except he spent more time formulating...here it is...

__________________________________________________ ________
Hrmmm...

Three things came out of the Miami police presser subsequent Washington Post piece that merit mention in the context of the night Sean Taylor was shot and the reporting of that night.

First, original reporting in the Washington Time indicated Monday

someone in Taylor's house heard intruders attempting to pry open the rear door of the house. Taylor apparently went to investigate, and a female in the house then heard a shot.

Yesterday's WaPo piece linked at the top reported

the intruder or intruders kicked in the bedroom door Monday morning and fired twice, striking Taylor -- who had grabbed a machete from under the bed -- in the femoral artery while his high school sweetheart, Jackie Garcia, cowered on the bed with their 18-month-old daughter.

So which is it, were they all in the same room or not?


Second, the police have indicated there is no evidence Sean's home phone line was cut. Tuesday the WaPo reported the line had been cut and that the fiancee was forced to use her mobile phone to call 911, which delayed paramedic arrival time.

Yesterday's piece linked at the top reports that the fiancee quote had difficulty using the home phone unquote. Unless she's using a VOIP phone and teh internets waz down or her cordless battery was dead I don't know how you have a hard time using your own phone but then again I have never had the person I love bleeding out in front of me while trying to calm an 18 month old.

The police have indicated the 911 call was received approximately 15 minutes after the shooting. Why the long gap?


Third, WaPo reported on Tuesday per one of Sean's cousins that Sean's house had no alarm system. It would seem odd if not interesting that a wealthy man with questionable current and or former associates and with recent breakin(s) reported at his home would not make a phone call and get this taken care of.

Yesterday in the WaPo piece linked at the top says

"The home was equipped with a burglar alarm which was not turned on the night of the incident," Sharpstein said. "Sean did, however, put the hurricane shutters down on all windows. It's too little too late but I certainly would've told him to engage his alarm at all times at night and after the first burglary he probably should've had private security patrolling. This, of course, is hindsight."

Uh yeah that would have been good advice. I hope this was a case of wrong information getting out in the chaos of the reporting. All three of these things interest me because they concern either someone who was at the scene of the crime or the spokesperson for the deceased who has had no shortage of time in front of a microphone. These clarifications coming three days after the shooting is peculiar.



__________________________________________________ __


And here is another on of his posts...

__________________________________________________ ____

I'm no Columbo...

...but something doesn't sound right here. No I am not ready to wade into the war over what we can and cannot say about Sean Taylor's life and death and who can say it. I am still not ready to engage.

So this is not about the supposed presupposition that Sean must have been murdered by an old associate or an enemy or the guy he roughed up over the ATVs or some homey. Or some resentful sycophant turned murderer or some ex girlfriend or Ted Bundy or Tommy Vercetti.

The Miami police had a press conference late yesterday. They believe Sean was the victim of a random burglary and not targeted, in fact they believe there is

"no reason" to think the incident was anything other than an attempted burglary, one likely involving more than one intruder...There is nothing that indicates that this was something that involved Sean," Parker said. "We're more along the lines, or the thought process, that this was a random occurrence

Unless the cops are going straight out of the academy playbook and running a misdirection this seems odd. Perhaps they have significant evidence, maybe not, but either way I suppose by announcing this was a random act they believe perhaps the suspects will not flee or will get careless.

But something is not right. The Washington Times reports

"This kid was assassinated; it was a hit," said one longtime Taylor friend with ties to the National Football League. "With the knife beside the bedside, it was obvious they came looking for him."

Also we know in the breakin last week a kitchen knife (butcher? steak? paring?) was left on Sean's bed. Maybe careless burglar needed a blade to cut something open, maybe it was left there as a message. I wonder, were there prints on that knife?

A breakin so close to last week's is unrelated? You know I'm not Magnum PI but if one perp breaks in last week and mentions in conversation how easy it was and that other person decides to try it and oops finds Sean at home? I think that's related.

Sean's lawyer thinks the two breakins are related (op. cit.). He also thinks Sunday night's perpetrators did not think Sean was home. I wonder if they checked the driveway for cars.

Also, I have come to understand that the fiancee and perhaps even a nanny live or stay in the house so do we know the circumstances around last week's breakin? Was anybody home? Does anybody actually live there full time? This piece on neighborhood reaction indicates that Sean's mother, long divorced from his father, lists the house as her permanent address and one of the rooms rifled by the burglars was listed as the bedroom of Sean's sister Sasha. Who really lives there?


Sean's friend and former University of Miami and current Arizona Cardinals cornerback Antrel Rolle

said Wednesday that Taylor had told him he was afraid every time he returned to the [Miami] area...

"This was not the first incident," Rolle told reporters in Arizona. "They've been targeting him for three years now."


Rolle, who said he had not spoken to Taylor in a while, did not offer any specifics, but added, "Sean, he had a large group of friends, and he no longer hung out with those friends, so you never know where this came from.

(op. cit.)

Antrel may not be Jim Rockford but something is amiss here. The burglars kicked open the bedroom door and shot him? It seems to me that if the burglars thought the house would be empty then they would have taken off when they heard noises. As it was there is nothing that appears missing from the house.

Also the WaPo piece (op. cit.) mentions two pieces of information that merit their own post, to follow immediately: 1) the phone line was not cut, fiancee Jackie Garcia had a 'hard time' operating the home phone and 2) the house does have an alarm system but it was not turned on. These two pieces of information contradict earlier reporting and it may be innocent in all the chaos but...odd.

__________________________________________________ ________
I think he's got many of the same questions that we all have...hopefully we'll find it out in time...

[cpayne5]

Originally Posted by BrunellMVP?

Also the WaPo piece (op. cit.) mentions two pieces of information that merit their own post, to follow immediately: 1) the phone line was not cut, fiancee Jackie Garcia had a 'hard time' operating the home phone and 2) the house does have an alarm system but it was not turned on. These two pieces of information contradict earlier reporting and it may be innocent in all the chaos but...odd.

I had thought about the the phone thing before, but one is able to disable a house's phone system without having to physically cut the line. All someone needs to do is pick up a handset and dial any number. The phone will sit there for a while waiting for the rest of the number to be entered. When a specified amount of time has expired and the user still hasn't entered a legal phone number, an automated message will play and then a beeping noise usually comes over the line if the phone is not hung up. If you just leave it off the hook, the dialtone will never reset, thus making it seem like the line has been cut.

I know what the guy is pointing towards (an inside job) with the point he brings up, but there's not enough there for me to even think about it at this point.

[courtney07]

Originally Posted by cpayne5

I had thought about the the phone thing before, but one is able to disable a house's phone system without having to physically cut the line. All someone needs to do is pick up a handset and dial any number. The phone will sit there for a while waiting for the rest of the number to be entered. When a specified amount of time has expired and the user still hasn't entered a legal phone number, an automated message will play and then a beeping noise usually comes over the line if the phone is not hung up. If you just leave it off the hook, the dialtone will never reset, thus making it seem like the line has been cut.

I know what the guy is pointing towards (an inside job) with the point he brings up, but there's not enough there for me to even think about it at this point.

Yeah a lot of people seem to be leaning towards the fact that the fiance was in on this somehow.

[hagams]

Originally Posted by BleedBurgundy

Unlike the movies, no one shoots anyone to wound. Especially when that someone is a two hundred plus pound, 6'2" world class athlete with a machete.

That is some scary sounding shit. I would run....fast.

[SC Skins Fan]

The Post had the best article I've seen on this topic in this morning's paper: washingtonpost.com - nation, world, technology and Washington area news and headlines

As you can tell from the idiotic comments that people have left on the website, people cannot accept the possibility that this crime was really a burgulary gone wrong. Perhaps we'll find out something later, but right now this article makes quite a bit of sense. I love how everyone puts on their detective hats and starts saying "oh, he had a machete under the bed, that is so crazy, he must have known something was going to happen, I've seen that in a movie once." Well, in subtropical climates a machete is a really common gardening tool and you can get it at any hardware store. I have a baseball bat under my bed and there's no one 'gunning' for me.

Or "oh, a knife was left on the bed, so that was clearly a mafia style message, I've seen that in a movie once." Well, a better explanation would be that it was a kitchen knife and was used as a tool to pry open a window and to try to get into a safe as the article postulates.

Or, "they kicked in the door, clearly this was a hit, I've seen it in a movie once. Plus, no one knew he was going to be home so clearly the hit man was staking out the property." Well, perhaps a much better explanation is that the criminals did not expect to find anyone in the house, they kicked in the door to find a safe, and then pissed down their leg when they saw someone in the room with a machete. They poped off two shots and ran, unfortunately they were fatal, but that wasn't the intent.

Or, the worst one of all, which I've actually now heard a couple of times, "he was shot in the groin, clearly this is something to do with retribution from someone Jackie was having an affair with, I've seen it in a movie once." Or, most people don't know how to properly handle a firearm, these criminals had seen 'Scarface' and thought violence was stylized but when when reality came in all they could do was pop off a few blind shots and run.

Rush to judgement off information that you've never seen and off reports that are contradictory. The really horrible part is that if this really as a random (random in that they were not intending to murder Sean Taylor, just try to get at the safe), then the odds of actually catching these individuals will decline. And people like Colin Cowherd and Mike 'from the streets' Wilbon still won't be satisfied.

[redsk1]

Originally Posted by SC Skins Fan

The Post had the best article I've seen on this topic in this morning's paper: washingtonpost.com - nation, world, technology and Washington area news and headlines

As you can tell from the idiotic comments that people have left on the website, people cannot accept the possibility that this crime was really a burgulary gone wrong. Perhaps we'll find out something later, but right now this article makes quite a bit of sense. I love how everyone puts on their detective hats and starts saying "oh, he had a machete under the bed, that is so crazy, he must have known something was going to happen, I've seen that in a movie once." Well, in subtropical climates a machete is a really common gardening tool and you can get it at any hardware store. I have a baseball bat under my bed and there's no one 'gunning' for me.

Or "oh, a knife was left on the bed, so that was clearly a mafia style message, I've seen that in a movie once." Well, a better explanation would be that it was a kitchen knife and was used as a tool to pry open a window and to try to get into a safe as the article postulates.

Or, "they kicked in the door, clearly this was a hit, I've seen it in a movie once. Plus, no one knew he was going to be home so clearly the hit man was staking out the property." Well, perhaps a much better explanation is that the criminals did not expect to find anyone in the house, they kicked in the door to find a safe, and then pissed down their leg when they saw someone in the room with a machete. They poped off two shots and ran, unfortunately they were fatal, but that wasn't the intent.

Or, the worst one of all, which I've actually now heard a couple of times, "he was shot in the groin, clearly this is something to do with retribution from someone Jackie was having an affair with, I've seen it in a movie once." Or, most people don't know how to properly handle a firearm, these criminals had seen 'Scarface' and thought violence was stylized but when when reality came in all they could do was pop off a few blind shots and run.

Rush to judgement off information that you've never seen and off reports that are contradictory. The really horrible part is that if this really as a random (random in that they were not intending to murder Sean Taylor, just try to get at the safe), then the odds of actually catching these individuals will decline. And people like Colin Cowherd and Mike 'from the streets' Wilbon still won't be satisfied.

I agree. Good article that makes it seem like this could have really been random.

[XXVI]

Holy god it just came to me....


If I'm right about this, I'm not sorry, but if I'm not, please forgive me for saying this.

Jackie maybe was lookin' for a way out... possibly was tired of the NFL lifestyle Sean was living.... I dunno... people with Social Anxiety Disorder sometime are like that (iE: Ricky Williams)... jealousy whatever I dunno... some people could just be stupid... anyway, what if she turned the alarm off after he went to bed, and planned this whole thing???? WOW thats kinda scary... first the phone lines were cut, then they werent.... then there at first was NO security system, but now there is it just wasn't turned on? LOL something seriously fishy is not formulating in my head, but no disrespect. Just speculation. CP said he left the bedroom, Jackie said he got shot IN the room... it just doesn't add up. 900,000 without a doubt is watched by adt or has SOME kind of security system.... probably well before ST bought it. I hope I'm not right, but it's just pieces from everyone else.

[SC Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by XXVI

Holy god it just came to me....


If I'm right about this, I'm not sorry, but if I'm not, please forgive me for saying this.

Jackie maybe was lookin' for a way out... possibly was tired of the NFL lifestyle Sean was living.... I dunno... people with Social Anxiety Disorder sometime are like that (iE: Ricky Williams)... jealousy whatever I dunno... some people could just be stupid... anyway, what if she turned the alarm off after he went to bed, and planned this whole thing???? WOW thats kinda scary... first the phone lines were cut, then they werent.... then there at first was NO security system, but now there is it just wasn't turned on? LOL something seriously fishy is not formulating in my head, but no disrespect. Just speculation. CP said he left the bedroom, Jackie said he got shot IN the room... it just doesn't add up. 900,000 without a doubt is watched by adt or has SOME kind of security system.... probably well before ST bought it. I hope I'm not right, but it's just pieces from everyone else.

The only person with a mental disorder is you.