Who called the 2nd timeout?

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

So we're just going to completely absolve the defense for that 30 yard pass to Reed before the field goal attempt? There were like 6 Redskins around him and not a single one can make a play on the ball? And that's ok?

And by the way the Cardinals are 6-6 and just beat the potentially playoff bound Browns. And the Jets beat the playoff bound Steelers. Point is, I'm tired of having to apologize for our victories. We're 5-7. Yes that sucks, but don't just discredit their wins because they weren't "impressive" enough for you.

While I agree that was a bad play but the D held the Bills to 15 points so it goes back on the O. I give Gibbs a "by" for that mistake but those three running plays before that was just very bad coaching. We could not run the ball all game and just needed one first down.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

The ref shouldn't have responded then. Just seems odd that he would say yes, a little misleading if you ask me. Coaches ask refs for clarification of the rules all the time. Don't get me wrong Gibbs is still responsible, but it's still worth discussing why the ref told him yes.

I don't see why it's worth disucssing. It's not his job to educate coaches on the rules.. Asking for clarification is one thing, but asking on something absoulte is inexcusable.

Playing devils advocate, let's say Gibbs asked and the ref told him it was a penalty and he doesn't call it and Lindell missed the kick short. After the game, Gibbs says 'I was going to call the second timeout but the official reminded me it would be a 15 yard penalty so I didn't call it. Thanks to him, we probably won the game!' Can you imagine the firestorm coming out of Buffalo this morning? That's why the ref has to respond directly to the question asked, not offering anything more than 'yes, you can.'

[MTK]

I don't see what's wrong with asking a ref for clarification, again they do this all the time. Yes Gibbs should have known the rule, but if he wasn't clear and asked the ref and the ref says yes, you can call a time out, I think some blame has to be placed on the ref for misinforming the coach.

[redsk1]

Originally Posted by firstdown

While I agree that was a bad play but the D held the Bills to 15 points so it goes back on the O. I give Gibbs a "by" for that mistake but those three running plays before that was just very bad coaching. We could not run the ball all game and just needed one first down.

Amen. I blame the coaching and the O on this one. When it comes down to crunch time we're running the ball. Even when we've averaged 2 yards a carry.

[over the mountain]

our D has not been able to stop the other team from scoring on the last drive for awhile now. we need them to come up with a defensive stands at vthe ends of games if we are going to win joe gibbs type football.

my brother thinks coach joe called the 2nd timeout on purpose to shoulder the blame and any criticism for the loss to protect the players from feeling like they let ST down. i said there is no way joe did that on a 51 yarder when there was still a chance at winning the game and providing a huge emnotional lift to this team.

whats more believable: joe goes out of his way to protect players from feeling like they let ST down or that he didnt know you cant call 2 timeouts in a row?

by the looks of the washington post it seems joe did a good job of attracting all the blame and criticism for the loss

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I don't see what's wrong with asking a ref for clarification, again they do this all the time. Yes Gibbs should have known the rule, but if he wasn't clear and asked the ref and the ref says yes, you can call a time out, I think some blame has to be placed on the ref for misinforming the coach.

We'll agree to disagree, the official has no culpability the way I see it.. Clarification is one thing, this rule doesn't leave any room to interpretation or clarification IMO-You can't call consecutive timeouts to freeze a kicker. Calling consecutive timeouts is unsportsmanlike conduct and will result in a 15 yard penalty. There's nothing vague or open to clarification there.

[SmootSmack]

Wouldn't surprise me for one second if he did that to take the blame off the players. Though I doubt that's what he did. I think he just had a mental lapse and forgot that the penalty had just recently changed.

[VTSkins897]

we just cant put up points man. it's just been the same old story now here for a while. even in our playoff run it didn't seem like we could score.

as far as gibbs 2.0, i mean i don't think there are any hard feelings, but it's just time to move on.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

We'll agree to disagree, the official has no culpability the way I see it.. Clarification is one thing, this rule doesn't leave any room to interpretation or clarification IMO-You can't call consecutive timeouts to freeze a kicker. Calling consecutive timeouts is unsportsmanlike conduct and will result in a 15 yard penalty. There's nothing vague or open to clarification there.

If you are unsure of a rule and you ask a ref, and he gives you wrong info, I think there's some responsibility there.

Aren't the refs there to officiate the game and to properly interpret the rules of the game, and to communicate the rules to the players, coaches, and audience? I think a coach asking the ref about a rule would fall under that level of responsibility.

I just find it odd and a little disturbing that Gibbs may have been given wrong info that led to a critical mistake.

[Schneed10]

I'd like to point out that with the way Lindell hit that 36 yarder to win, that thing would have gone through from 60+. That kick went right down the center and it hadn't started to come down once it reached the goalposts. And he grooved the first 51 yarder that didn't end up counting.

I think he would have nailed it from 51. Hearing Gibbs say that he probably cost the team the game, I don't think that's true. At least not with the timeout decision.

However I do think his game management is horrible, and he's not showing any ability to learn from mistake after mistake. I don't like the conservative nature late in games either.

I'm all for continuity, so keep Saunders as the OC and keep Gregg Williams as the head coach. I doubt Bugel would stay if Gibbs goes, so we'd need an O-Line coach. But someone else needs to be making these decisions and setting the tone. Gibbs is doing a horrible job.

[dmek25]

here's my take on the whole Gibbs return. too many question around who is making what decisions. next season, coach Gibbs goes back, like old school, and calls all the shots. that way, if the ship sinks( or swims) we all know directly who is responsible. either he basks in the redskins sucess, or drowns in there failures. but its all on him

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by dmek25

here's my take on the whole Gibbs return. too many question around who is making what decisions. next season, coach Gibbs goes back, like old school, and calls all the shots. that way, if the ship sinks( or swims) we all know directly who is responsible. either he basks in the redskins sucess, or drowns in there failures. but its all on him

If he's allowing others to make decisions now (like Saunders or Williams or whoever), then it all falls on him anyway.

It sounds almost like you're suggesting Gibbs is allowing the inmates to run the asylum right now. That's grounds for getting canned in my opinion.

[Daseal]

Wouldn't surprise me for one second if he did that to take the blame off the players.

If this is the case then Joe is farther gone than I even imagined. Giving a 15 yard penalty to make his players feel better? Come on! The kick he hit would have gone through from 51, no doubt. But more things come into play at 51, a good wind, you kick it differently when you're concerned about power, etc. Did the two TOs directly cost us the game? Probably not, it's just one of many stupid mistakes I'm sick of seeing.

Don't worry SmootSmack -- your anger is just one of the stages to acceptance.

[MTK]

There's no way Gibbs would have did that on purpose. The odds are much better for missing a 51 yard FG vs. a 36 yard attempt. To basically throw away the game to take pressure off the players is totally ridiculous.

[redsk1]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

I'd like to point out that with the way Lindell hit that 36 yarder to win, that thing would have gone through from 60+. That kick went right down the center and it hadn't started to come down once it reached the goalposts. And he grooved the first 51 yarder that didn't end up counting.

I think he would have nailed it from 51. Hearing Gibbs say that he probably cost the team the game, I don't think that's true. At least not with the timeout decision.

However I do think his game management is horrible, and he's not showing any ability to learn from mistake after mistake. I don't like the conservative nature late in games either.

I'm all for continuity, so keep Saunders as the OC and keep Gregg Williams as the head coach. I doubt Bugel would stay if Gibbs goes, so we'd need an O-Line coach. But someone else needs to be making these decisions and setting the tone. Gibbs is doing a horrible job.

I agree. Gibbs is doing and has been doing a horrible job. I'd like to see GW b/c our head coach. JG consistenly puts the game in the hands of the defense. You can't do that and consistently win unless your the 85 Bears d or the 00 ravens (i think). I've just had enough of watching the same game over and over for 4 years. It's like the Norv years. Yes, i said it.