Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by saden1

Should have known? They knew! We're up 23-20 with how many years to go? What about the refs? Are they making the right calls? Fair calls? I keep hearing about progress yet at this point I don't know why I should care. Who are we fighting in Iraq? Why I'm I paying for it? I find the whole surge thing insulting because I believe it to be a worthless gimmick, a way to divert attention from the real problems in Iraq (ethnic issues and corruption). Iraq is so fickle it doesn't really matter what we do at this point. Iraqis don't want us there. They think their country is better off without us in the mix so why not oblige them?

Pulling out makes sense if you apply the principle of sunken costs. You hand Iraq over back to the Iraqis and tell them "get your shit together, we've done all we could." This is what we're starting to do now and McCain was left looking like a baboon by even Bush with his "Time Horizon not Timetable" bullshit.

Don't site polls, you shot polls down just recently in a post. Besides, you know damn well state polls are what matters because ultimately the electoral vote winner wins the election.



"I mean, come on, they must think you're stupid!"

If you can't even tell me who we're fighting in Iraq, then I can't even believe I'm debating with you. I also can't believe you intend to cast a vote in this election. Our main enemy there is Al Qaeda in Iraq and the like-minded fighters that are coming in from Iran and Syria, but we're also there as a peacekeeping force. Without a strong military and police force, Iraq is left in a power vacuum, giving the various ethnic groups a chance to assert themselves by force and thrust the country into civil war. And you're wrong in saying Iraqis don't want us there, the 90% of people in that country who simply want to go to work and protect their families have wanted us there to keep these forces in check. And now, after finally putting enough troops on the ground, we are gradually handing over control to the Iraqi military and police force as they work to keep warring ethnic groups under control.

When speaking of "sunken costs", you are clearly analyzing the situation solely based upon what America is putting into this war, and not thinking one iota about the Iraqis' stake in all of this.

From a moral standpoint, how can you show such little regard for the safety of a people who we left in a power vacuum when we invaded and toppled Saddam? How can you be OK with leaving suddenly, without first ensuring security, after watching your country invade under false pretenses knocking out electricity, commerce, communications, and running water in some spots? How can you talk of sunken costs when our country left their lives in shambles?

We owe it to them to see that their society can successfully quell any uprisings from the crazies at the far end of the political spectrum, who if given the opportunity, will gladly seize power by force.

Bush created this clusterfuck, but don't make it worse by failing to fix it, and that's exactly what Obama would do.