Do we need upgrades at wide receiver?

Redskins_P · 11-22-2004, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smootsmack

Let's compare the stats of our top 2 receivers with some of the other top 2 receivers that many on this board say we're light years behind:

Redskins

Coles: 52 catches, 606 yds, 1 TD
Gardner: 32 catches, 436 yards, 5 TD

Patriots

Givens: 42 catches, 710 yds, 3 TD
Patten: 29 catches, 473 yds, 5 TD

Seahawks

Jackson: 51 catches, 742 yds, 4 TD
Robinson: 31 catches, 495 yds, 2 TD

Chiefs

Gonzalez: 49 catches, 647 yds, 5 TD
Morton: 43 catches, 581 yds, 2 TD

Steelers

Ward: 57 catches, 678 yds, 3 TD
Burress: 32 catches, 601 yds, 4 TD

How about drops SS? Can you find a stat for that? I'm really interested in seeing how we compare to the others.

skinsguy · 11-22-2004, 04:23 PM

Our wide receiving corps isn't the worst by any stretch, but I just think an NFL receiver should be able to catch at LEAST 90% of the passes that are accurate to them. Passes that are right between the numbers or right in the hands. I can see them dropping a pass that they would have to make an acrobatic leap for or not catching passes that are behind them or overthrown, but passes that are right there to them should be caught.

Sheriff Gonna Getcha · 11-22-2004, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Sorry if I offended you RF, that wasn't my intention.

I think we might be misinterpreting each other here. When I hear someone say we have one of the best and deepest WR corps in the league, I'm thinking best as in production, not potential as I'm guessing you meant. So that's why I took issue with what you said.

I do agree they have talent at WR. I also don't think they need to overhaul the WR's next year. But right now I have a hard time calling them the best at anything.

I didn't take offense Matty, but thanks anyways for the clarification. I simply love our wideouts; Coles is the classiest, hardest working, and talented WR we've had here since Gibbs last left. I love the guy as much as I do Ramsey. I love him and will defend him until my last breath.

Gardner is indeed inconsistent, but I like him as a #2.

You've also gotta love McCants for his ability to find seams and get open despite coming from a pathetic undergrad.

I also like Thrash because he's a Gibbs-guy; he works hard, doesn't moan, and he's a solid #4.

We haven't seen enough of Jacobs to make an assessment yet, but I think a lot of teams would be happy to have him as their #3.

Looking at the other teams around the league, I still stand by my statement that they are among the best and deepest. Give these guys a good QB and they will indeed be unstoppable. When Gibbs turns this offense around, I'm convinced we're going to fall in love with these guys.....that's all.

skinsguy · 11-22-2004, 04:33 PM

I certainly hope you're right Ramseyfan! I just hope they show us enough hard work and determination by season's end so that it won't leave us wondering if we need to upgrade the WR's position or at least make changes for next year.

VTSkins897 · 11-22-2004, 04:46 PM

our WRs are really good. yes lets get new ones and suck for 3 more yrs. cant even blame gardner from the drops. he so surprised that the ball is in his reach he cant even contain himself. we played 9 games with a man who cudnt even connect w a checkdown. no real chemistry building there. i expect that with PR gettin the time the WRs will get used to him and make some plays... doesnt help that our offensive gameplan is trash but thats different. fix that, THEN we'll talk about the WRs.

SmootSmack · 11-22-2004, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redskins_P

How about drops SS? Can you find a stat for that? I'm really interested in seeing how we compare to the others.

Here's some of what I could find:

Coles-Targets: 110 Drops: 6, Percent Caught 47.3

Gardner-Targets: 75 Drops: 6, Percent Caught 42.7

Patten-Targets: 63 Drops: 7, Percent Caught 46.0

Givens-Targets: 75 Drops: 1 Percent Caught: 56

Jackson-Targets: 99 Drops: 6, Percent Caught: 51.5

Robinson-Targets: 66 Drops: 10 Percent Caught: 47

Morton-Targets: 58 Drops: 0 Percent Caught: 74.1

Ward-Targets: 67 Drops: 1 Percent Caught: 85.1

Burress-Targets: 57 Drops: 2 Percent Caught: 56.1

VTSkins897 · 11-22-2004, 05:01 PM

Doesn't look too skewed to me. I think it just sort of snowballs what with our horrible game plans.

firstdown · 11-22-2004, 05:26 PM

The problem is the performance of the offence as a whole. Every error is magnified by about 100% right now (maybe 1000%). Look at last week when everyone was saying the defence looked so bad and they only gave up 13 points. If we were scoring we would not be talking about the droped balls.

Beemnseven · 11-22-2004, 05:29 PM

I voted sub-par, need new talent. Maybe that opinion changes if Ramsey gets in gear and really develops chemistry with them. The Offensive line still has issues too, so that ties in with the QB and WRs overall production.

Still, there are judgements you can make on certain plays when there was enough protection from the O-line, and if the QB isn't completely off.

We've already addressed the drops. But how many times was the QB well protected yet simply couldn't find an open receiver leading to a 'coverage sack' ? Were the wideouts able to get sufficient separation from defenders? Have the receivers been able to get open when the opposing defense knew the offensive gameplan shifted to a pass oriented attack when the team was behind? Does the mere presence of our receivers cause opposing defenses to stay in the backfield, or are they comfortable with taking their chances by keeping eight men in the box to stop Portis?

Too many times this season, the answers to these questions have been obvious.

How about asking this question: Would Peyton Manning and his offensive line still have the same success throwing the ball to Coles, Gardner, and Thrash? Not only no, but HELL NO.

With the exception of the Patriots and maybe the Falcons, teams who are at or near the top of their respective divisions all have at least one stand-out wide receiver that many will regulary say belong in the Top Ten in the league. I maintain that Coles wouldn't be on that list.

I simply feel that even if our quarterback situation was completely settled, that Ramsey was on target and playing well, AND if the offensive line was giving effective pass protection in addition to the threat of a strong running game, our wideouts would likely be lacking a consistent big play ability. If everything else was hitting on all cylinders, WR would be our weakest offensive position, -- our only glitch.

For this reason, I say that with our undoubtedly high draft position next year, we should not shy away from taking a wide receiver in the first round.

SmootSmack · 11-22-2004, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

Would Peyton Manning and his offensive line still have the same success throwing the ball to Coles, Gardner, and Thrash? Not only no, but HELL NO.

I don't think you're giving Manning enough credit for the success of the Colts receivers

itvnetop · 11-22-2004, 06:00 PM

I could think of a lot of teams who would benefit with our receiving corps... that being said, I wouldn't be mad at the FO for drafting a stud. The only other guy that was seriously being considered over Sean Taylor was KWII last year- and our needs were just as strong (if not stronger) before last year's draft.

Our D-line still could use an end, but last year we didn't know how our tackles were going to pan out (Griffin was not a sure thing, as he's prone to inconsistency). We could still use a young end, but at least we know we've got guys who can play in Williams' system. The point is, I think we still have the same needs we had last year, but at least we know we're stronger at some of the positions in question.

Meaning, if we get a high draft pick, I wouldn't waste it on a center or guard just because we need one (you can draft solid non-tackle O-linemen in the later rounds). Williams has proven we can stick in non-superstars and still play like a top-3 defense. Even though our wideouts are solid, our offense could use a playmaker. If KWII was being considered to change the complexion of the offense, Mike Williams would totally give D-coordinators more to think about. A strong, tall, fast receiver (that runs precise routes and doesn't drop balls) would make defenses crowd the box a little less, opening things up for Portis next year.

If the problem on O is much bigger than any one position, we can't draft just because of a major need at one position. We should draft someone that has a huge impact on the overall scheme.

skinsguy · 11-22-2004, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smootsmack

Here's some of what I could find:

Coles-Targets: 110 Drops: 6, Percent Caught 47.3

Gardner-Targets: 75 Drops: 6, Percent Caught 42.7

Patten-Targets: 63 Drops: 7, Percent Caught 46.0

Givens-Targets: 75 Drops: 1 Percent Caught: 56

Jackson-Targets: 99 Drops: 6, Percent Caught: 51.5

Robinson-Targets: 66 Drops: 10 Percent Caught: 47

Morton-Targets: 58 Drops: 0 Percent Caught: 74.1

Ward-Targets: 67 Drops: 1 Percent Caught: 85.1

Burress-Targets: 57 Drops: 2 Percent Caught: 56.1

Interested to find out how many years this includes....what about stats of drops for this year?

SmootSmack · 11-22-2004, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skinsguy

Interested to find out how many years this includes....what about stats of drops for this year?

Those numbers apply for this year

skinsguy · 11-22-2004, 06:27 PM

That's alot of drops.

Riggo44 · 11-22-2004, 06:32 PM

Yea it is. Look at Heniz Ward! He never drops the ball.

View Poll Results: Do we need better wide receivers?
Our wide receivers are great, it's everything else that stinks.	2	4.08%
Our wide receivers are good, but unspectacular.	24	48.98%
Our wide receivers are average.	16	32.65%
Our wide receivers are sub-par and we need some new talent.	7	14.29%
Our wide receivers stink, get rid of them.	0	0%
Voters: 49. You may not vote on this poll

11-22-2004, 05:01 PM	#22
VTSkins897 Impact Rookie Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Richmond, VA Age: 42 Posts: 890	Doesn't look too skewed to me. I think it just sort of snowballs what with our horrible game plans. Last edited by Sheriff Gonna Getcha; 11-22-2004 at 06:20 PM.

11-22-2004, 06:32 PM	#30
Riggo44 The Starter Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: San Clemente CA Age: 51 Posts: 2,390	Yea it is. Look at Heniz Ward! He never drops the ball. __________________ Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. Benjamin Franklin

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11-22-2004, 04:23 PM	#17
skinsguy Pro Bowl Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Greensboro, North Carolina Posts: 6,766	Our wide receiving corps isn't the worst by any stretch, but I just think an NFL receiver should be able to catch at LEAST 90% of the passes that are accurate to them. Passes that are right between the numbers or right in the hands. I can see them dropping a pass that they would have to make an acrobatic leap for or not catching passes that are behind them or overthrown, but passes that are right there to them should be caught.

11-22-2004, 04:33 PM	#19
skinsguy Pro Bowl Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Greensboro, North Carolina Posts: 6,766	I certainly hope you're right Ramseyfan! I just hope they show us enough hard work and determination by season's end so that it won't leave us wondering if we need to upgrade the WR's position or at least make changes for next year.

11-22-2004, 04:46 PM	#20
VTSkins897 Impact Rookie Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Richmond, VA Age: 42 Posts: 890	our WRs are really good. yes lets get new ones and suck for 3 more yrs. cant even blame gardner from the drops. he so surprised that the ball is in his reach he cant even contain himself. we played 9 games with a man who cudnt even connect w a checkdown. no real chemistry building there. i expect that with PR gettin the time the WRs will get used to him and make some plays... doesnt help that our offensive gameplan is trash but thats different. fix that, THEN we'll talk about the WRs.

11-22-2004, 05:26 PM	#23
firstdown Living Legend Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: chesapeake, va Age: 61 Posts: 15,817	The problem is the performance of the offence as a whole. Every error is magnified by about 100% right now (maybe 1000%). Look at last week when everyone was saying the defence looked so bad and they only gave up 13 points. If we were scoring we would not be talking about the droped balls.

11-22-2004, 05:29 PM	#24
Beemnseven Pro Bowl Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Virginia Beach Age: 51 Posts: 5,311	I voted sub-par, need new talent. Maybe that opinion changes if Ramsey gets in gear and really develops chemistry with them. The Offensive line still has issues too, so that ties in with the QB and WRs overall production. Still, there are judgements you can make on certain plays when there was enough protection from the O-line, and if the QB isn't completely off. We've already addressed the drops. But how many times was the QB well protected yet simply couldn't find an open receiver leading to a 'coverage sack' ? Were the wideouts able to get sufficient separation from defenders? Have the receivers been able to get open when the opposing defense knew the offensive gameplan shifted to a pass oriented attack when the team was behind? Does the mere presence of our receivers cause opposing defenses to stay in the backfield, or are they comfortable with taking their chances by keeping eight men in the box to stop Portis? Too many times this season, the answers to these questions have been obvious. How about asking this question: Would Peyton Manning and his offensive line still have the same success throwing the ball to Coles, Gardner, and Thrash? Not only no, but HELL NO. With the exception of the Patriots and maybe the Falcons, teams who are at or near the top of their respective divisions all have at least one stand-out wide receiver that many will regulary say belong in the Top Ten in the league. I maintain that Coles wouldn't be on that list. I simply feel that even if our quarterback situation was completely settled, that Ramsey was on target and playing well, AND if the offensive line was giving effective pass protection in addition to the threat of a strong running game, our wideouts would likely be lacking a consistent big play ability. If everything else was hitting on all cylinders, WR would be our weakest offensive position, -- our only glitch. For this reason, I say that with our undoubtedly high draft position next year, we should not shy away from taking a wide receiver in the first round.

11-22-2004, 06:00 PM	#26
itvnetop Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Los Angeles, CA Age: 48 Posts: 3,007	I could think of a lot of teams who would benefit with our receiving corps... that being said, I wouldn't be mad at the FO for drafting a stud. The only other guy that was seriously being considered over Sean Taylor was KWII last year- and our needs were just as strong (if not stronger) before last year's draft. Our D-line still could use an end, but last year we didn't know how our tackles were going to pan out (Griffin was not a sure thing, as he's prone to inconsistency). We could still use a young end, but at least we know we've got guys who can play in Williams' system. The point is, I think we still have the same needs we had last year, but at least we know we're stronger at some of the positions in question. Meaning, if we get a high draft pick, I wouldn't waste it on a center or guard just because we need one (you can draft solid non-tackle O-linemen in the later rounds). Williams has proven we can stick in non-superstars and still play like a top-3 defense. Even though our wideouts are solid, our offense could use a playmaker. If KWII was being considered to change the complexion of the offense, Mike Williams would totally give D-coordinators more to think about. A strong, tall, fast receiver (that runs precise routes and doesn't drop balls) would make defenses crowd the box a little less, opening things up for Portis next year. If the problem on O is much bigger than any one position, we can't draft just because of a major need at one position. We should draft someone that has a huge impact on the overall scheme.

11-22-2004, 06:27 PM	#29
skinsguy Pro Bowl Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Greensboro, North Carolina Posts: 6,766	That's alot of drops.

Do we need upgrades at wide receiver?

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