Mark Sanchez at 13th?

[30gut]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Zorn pushing hard for Sanchez by the way...again allegedly.

If this is true i find it surprising.
Danny pushing hard for Sanchez i get but Zorn?
Zorn is a QB coach whose claim to fame is the ability to develop a QB.
I would think that a position coach hangs their hats on the ability to coach a player up. Like coaches Gray/Jackson did with Doughty and Horton, or Olividotti with Blades, or Williams/Blache with Monty and Golston or Buges with a list too long to mention.
It seems odd for a QB coach to draft a QB with a high pick when he is currently developing a QB and that development is supposed to be his forte.
(like a mechanic who doesn't restore his own cars)

Also, Zorn stirkes me as a honest guy, almost to a fault.
Granted i have no access and i'm only juding based on interviews and post game pressers.
But, he doesn't seem like the kind of guy who gives his word lightly and to throw his support behind Campbell then push for Sanchez doesn't fit my impression of Zorn.

One statement about Campbell form Zorn that i never forget came from Matt Mosley last summer:

What's in Mosley's Mailbag? - NFC East - ESPN
Mosley: Albert, you were actually 6,002, but I like the way you phrased your question (praised my work). Jim Zorn didn't come right out and say this to me, but I know for a fact that he's told Campbell he's poised to become a perennial Pro Bowl quarterback.

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

BPA at a position of need? Mark Sanchez fits the bill. QB is arguably the biggest position of need on our team.

People keep saying that Jason Campbell has consistenly improved; that if he gets a better O-line, more consistent play from his receivers, more time in a system, more explosive play from the running back position, more this, more that... that he'll become a solid NFL QB. Well, if you gave every 2nd and 3rd string QB in the NFL all of that, they'd probably be "solid" QBs as well. Some things are stronger than others, but theres not a single team in the NFL that doesnt have multiple needs.

The truth is, no QB gets the "perfect" environment. People keep saying over and over again that Tom Brady would be horrible on this team, behind this line and with these receivers, but that's the biggest load of crap i've ever heard. Tom Brady makes good decisions. Tom Brady knows when to throw the football. Tom Brady knows when to take a chance. Tom Brady looks deep and makes it through his reads... you get my drift. If Tom Brady came here, he might take a few more sacks; he might not get quite as many yards or completions, but he would still be Tom Brady and he would still be one of the top 3 QBs in the league The truth is, guys like Tom Brady don't rely on everything around them being just right... guys like Tom Brady have "the intangibles." Guys like Tom Brady INSPIRE everyone around them. Guys like Tom Brady MAKE everyone around them better.

If you took a poll of the 31 teams in the NFL not named the New England Patriots - the 31 teams that passed on him atleast 5 times, and you asked them if they could go back and do the 2000 draft over again, atleast 30 of them would take Tom Brady with their 1st pick - regardless of what other "needs" they felt were more pressing at the time. Why? Because they know what a guy like Tom Brady can do. They know that a QB is the most important position in all of sports - and when you get a guy like that, you can build an entire team around him and have long-success. Mark Sanchez is that kind of player.

OMG yeah that's why Brady looked like a below average QB when the dominant NY defense pressured or sacked him all game SB before last Seriously bro, seriously think about what you're saying. Protection and WR talent don't matter?! Are you just angry about something else altogether? Why ignore historical fact and reality toward a point that doesn't prove anything.

...most QBs in the league can be quite good when surrounded by phenomenal talent and great protection. It's that simple. A very small handful can "will" their way to success in lesser conditions. Tom Brady is not among that group. Belichick, aside from the year Reche Caldwell was NE's #1 WR, has always surrounded his QB w/ awesome talent and truly phenomenal pass protection. I would put Brees and even Dono way ahead in that category compared to Brady.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

BPA at a position of need? Mark Sanchez fits the bill. QB is arguably the biggest position of need on our team.

People keep saying that Jason Campbell has consistenly improved; that if he gets a better O-line, more consistent play from his receivers, more time in a system, more explosive play from the running back position, more this, more that... that he'll become a solid NFL QB. Well, if you gave every 2nd and 3rd string QB in the NFL all of that, they'd probably be "solid" QBs as well. Some things are stronger than others, but theres not a single team in the NFL that doesnt have multiple needs.

The truth is, no QB gets the "perfect" environment. People keep saying over and over again that Tom Brady would be horrible on this team, behind this line and with these receivers, but that's the biggest load of crap i've ever heard. Tom Brady makes good decisions. Tom Brady knows when to throw the football. Tom Brady knows when to take a chance. Tom Brady looks deep and makes it through his reads... you get my drift. If Tom Brady came here, he might take a few more sacks; he might not get quite as many yards or completions, but he would still be Tom Brady and he would still be one of the top 3 QBs in the league The truth is, guys like Tom Brady don't rely on everything around them being just right... guys like Tom Brady have "the intangibles." Guys like Tom Brady INSPIRE everyone around them. Guys like Tom Brady MAKE everyone around them better.

If you took a poll of the 31 teams in the NFL not named the New England Patriots - the 31 teams that passed on him atleast 5 times, and you asked them if they could go back and do the 2000 draft over again, atleast 30 of them would take Tom Brady with their 1st pick - regardless of what other "needs" they felt were more pressing at the time. Why? Because they know what a guy like Tom Brady can do. They know that a QB is the most important position in all of sports - and when you get a guy like that, you can build an entire team around him and have long-success. Mark Sanchez is that kind of player.

If the Skins dont get Sanchez, they will be looking for a new coach AND a new quarterback in 2010 anyways, because they felt some other need was more pressing. Some people may not feel QB is the teams most pressing need in 2009, but if you can look beyond the season as many people have criticized the FO for failing to do in the past, you will understand why QB IS a pressing need for this team.

BHA, your disdain for Campbell is clearly evident and we get that. To say that QB is our biggest position of need is just flat out wrong. If that were the case, we would have pushed for any viable QB 'improvement' out there. We would have been in on Rosenfels, we would have been in on Cassell, we would have been in sooner on Cutler. I honestly believe that if Cutler hadn't have been available we wouldn't be on Sanchez now. Danny didn't get what he wanted in Cutler, now he's been tantalized by the taste of a flashy QB and he sees a QB (marquee position) from USC (marquee program) and he's got the starry eyes.

At this point, I almost want Campbell to go somewhere else and blossom into a star just to prove how ridiculous and impatient our fan base and ownership are. Some people think Campbell has peaked, I think he's far from his peak. I keep drawing the correlation between his first couple of years and Drew Brees first couple of years, very similar on the field and off. I'd hate to have that kind of production being racked up elsewhere down the road but it would serve us right.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

BHA, your disdain for Campbell is clearly evident and we get that. To say that QB is our biggest position of need is just flat out wrong. If that were the case, we would have pushed for any viable QB 'improvement' out there. We would have been in on Rosenfels, we would have been in on Cassell, we would have been in sooner on Cutler. I honestly believe that if Cutler hadn't have been available we wouldn't be on Sanchez now. Danny didn't get what he wanted in Cutler, now he's been tantalized by the taste of a flashy QB and he sees a QB (marquee position) from USC (marquee program) and he's got the starry eyes.

At this point, I almost want Campbell to go somewhere else and blossom into a star just to prove how ridiculous and impatient our fan base and ownership are. Some people think Campbell has peaked, I think he's far from his peak. I keep drawing the correlation between his first couple of years and Drew Brees first couple of years, very similar on the field and off. I'd hate to have that kind of production being racked up elsewhere down the road but it would serve us right.

I hear you, but how long should you have to wait in this league? Falcons fans didn't have to wait as long as we have. At some point JC will have to make things happen with what he has around him. Other QBs have done more with less. We can't wait for perfect surroundings for JC before he shows us something more than we've seen.

I'm not saying dump Campbell in favor of Sanchez, but this year has to be put up or shut up. No more excuses.

[53Fan]

I actually heard Portis say something smart on ESPN and it got me thinking. When he was asked whether he thought Campbell could be a franchise QB he said yes. He basically said he had the size and talent. He also said if you take away Santana Moss you'd probably have a hard time naming the Skins receivers over the past 5 years. He's right. All of Campbells stats and QB ratings have improved every year he has played. And he has done this with S**T for wide receivers, with the exception of Moss, a constantly changing offensive system, and an aging o-line that cannot stay healthy. The more I think about it, the more I think it would be a big mistake to give up on Jason Campbell right now.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by 53Fan

I actually heard Portis say something smart on ESPN and it got me thinking. When he was asked whether he thought Campbell could be a franchise QB he said yes. He basically said he had the size and talent. He also said if you take away Santana Moss you'd probably have a hard time naming the Skins receivers over the past 5 years. He's right. All of Campbells stats and QB ratings have improved every year he has played. And he has done this with S**T for wide receivers, with the exception of Moss, a constantly changing offensive system, and an aging o-line that cannot stay healthy. The more I think about it, the more I think it would be a big mistake to give up on Jason Campbell right now.

Ouch. I wonder how Antwaan Randle El would react to those comments?

For some reason I don't put much stock into Clinton Portis as a talent evaluator.

[53Fan]

I usually don't put much stock in anything Portis says but in this case he's right. Nothing against ARE but he belongs in the slot where he would flourish. A second receiver he's not. You have to admit though, Portis was right on Sean Taylor.

[Ruhskins]

I don't understand why people are so hell bent on getting a QB that's going to throw for 400 yds every game. Honestly, with the defense we had last year, we just needed an offense that can keep us one step ahead and allow us to control the clock when we have the lead. If you look at the elite defenses of last year (Titans, Ravens), their QBs were not setting passing records or anything like that. The easiest thing to do for our team is to get the o-line to protect Campbell and use the offense as a compliment to the defense.

If the team (or should I say, Snyder) wants to have an offense that racks up the yards and is an offense juggernaut, then the defense must be sacrificed. If you look at teams like Indy, Arizona, and New Orleans, who had passing offenses with huge numbers, well those teams usually don't have good defense. Not everyone can be like the New England Patriots (potent offense, with a top notch defense of old guys that won't get hurt) and I don't understand why Snyder (or anyone here) is hell bent on getting a Jay Cutler or another QB that's going to rack up the yards (at the expense of other areas which have typically have been the strength of our team....defense and running game).

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by 53Fan

I actually heard Portis say something smart on ESPN and it got me thinking. When he was asked whether he thought Campbell could be a franchise QB he said yes. He basically said he had the size and talent. He also said if you take away Santana Moss you'd probably have a hard time naming the Skins receivers over the past 5 years. He's right. All of Campbells stats and QB ratings have improved every year he has played. And he has done this with S**T for wide receivers, with the exception of Moss, a constantly changing offensive system, and an aging o-line that cannot stay healthy. The more I think about it, the more I think it would be a big mistake to give up on Jason Campbell right now.

I think that Portis and 53Fan are right on. Randle El is not a true #2. Thrash, a great special teamer, contributes very little to the passing game. Other wideouts in the last couple of years have been quite forgettable.

Between 2007 and 2008 JC changed from a turnover machine into a turnover-stingy QB. That already leaves us better off than quite a few qb's would.

The next step for him is to get the ball down field more so that his yards per attempt is above 7.0. This is his logical next progression as a QB and my guess is that he is working on this as we speak. He'll need help in this, as he'll need better protection than he has gotten and he'll need Thomas and Kelly to step up their games.

However, if he does emerge this year as a turnover-stingy QB with a YPA over 7.0, that's a true NFL QB. That's a keeper.

[SmootSmack]

My apologies guys. My report about Zorn pushing hard for Sanchez turns out to be really misleading. Yes, he's at the forefront of all the meetings with Sanchez but he's not pushing hard for him, not exactly.

I heard the report wrong. Zorn was asked "If not Campbell, then who would you want as your QB?" and that's where is strong interest in Sanchez comes in. Without that first part of the quote it's completely different. Sorry guys, bad reporting on my part there.

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

My apologies guys. My report about Zorn pushing hard for Sanchez turns out to be really misleading. Yes, he's at the forefront of all the meetings with Sanchez but he's not pushing hard for him, not exactly.

I heard the report wrong. Zorn was asked "If not Campbell, then who would you want as your QB?" and that's where is strong interest in Sanchez comes in. Without that first part of the quote it's completely different. Sorry guys, bad reporting on my part there.

Whew! Thanks for the update SS.

[Masshole]

(Suggested Thread Title) Will the Real Jason Campbell Fans Please Stand Up


So I don't have ten replies and can't start a thread, but is there any way the people who really believe in Jason Campbell as the future of the franchise can get together and somehow protest a potential Sanchez trade/show JC our support? I'm not really good with website design but would be happy to produce content. The way the front office is handling this situation is absurd, and before we piss away two more draft picks, perhaps we can rally broad fan opposition to this as well as show Jason Campbell that Snyder may not believe in him, but we do. Seems like a winner on both fronts.

[Masshole]

Considering that fan reaction kill Fassel, couldn't it work?

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

I hear you, but how long should you have to wait in this league? Falcons fans didn't have to wait as long as we have. At some point JC will have to make things happen with what he has around him. Other QBs have done more with less. We can't wait for perfect surroundings for JC before he shows us something more than we've seen.

I'm not saying dump Campbell in favor of Sanchez, but this year has to be put up or shut up. No more excuses.

Ask San Diego fans if they waited long enough on Brees. Did we wait long enough on Trent Green? It's been 2.5 years starting, what exactly did you expect? It's called DEVELOPING YOUR PLAYERS. We all cry and whine about wasted draft picks, hell what do you think you're going to get with all of those picks, Pro Bowl ready players every time?

We won 8 games last year and had the defense not crapped away the St. Louis, Cincy and SF games we would have been in the playoffs. It truly amazes me that some of you guys act like Campbell was out there losing games for us left and right.

Seriously, you can't compare all rookie QB to the Falcons or Ravens last year, those were historical anomalies. In both cases, they were game managers supported by a great running game (Atlanta) and a great defense (Baltimore). Please don't be fooled into believing they were the reason they were playoff teams.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

My apologies guys. My report about Zorn pushing hard for Sanchez turns out to be really misleading. Yes, he's at the forefront of all the meetings with Sanchez but he's not pushing hard for him, not exactly.

I heard the report wrong. Zorn was asked "If not Campbell, then who would you want as your QB?" and that's where is strong interest in Sanchez comes in. Without that first part of the quote it's completely different. Sorry guys, bad reporting on my part there.

How Florio-esque of you. LOL.

It's all good man.