bigger role for Betts this year?

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

Here's my personal oppinion; Portis is 27, and Betts is 29, Rock is 29.

All three came out of the 2002 draft. Portis #51, Betts #56 of the 2nd round and Rock #257 of the 7th round.

For their career's since 2002;

Portis: 4.5 yds per carry. 9,202 yrds totall.
Betts: 4.1 yds per carry. 2,966 yrds totall.
Rock: He doesn't even have stats hardley for being a RB. He has roughly less then 200 yrds each yr except for 2003 where he had 411 yrds. All of Rocks stats are based off of KR/PR duties.

I actually would rather see the team pick up a younger RB to take the bulk of the duties and take the bulk of the punishment slamming the ball up the middle. I know Rock has character but time to move on with someone who can KR and PR as well as be a speed back to run to the outside. Betts is also a nice character guy but he serves the same function as Portis...he is a between the tackles type of runner. Portis has been hammered each yr and although is a soldier he's starting to get banged up. If the motto is to get younger then Portis at age 27 and anyone older should go including Betts and Rock.

I think I would try to salvage Portis one more yr. Either bring in a younger between the tackles type of runner or mold Mason. Keep either Alridge or Dorsey whoever outshines and use them as KR/PR and as our scat back. Maybe even as a second RB in the back field to keep defenses guessing.

I'm not just throwing this out to play devil's advocate...i really believe CP has plenty of time left and by retirement the kid will hold every Skins RB record on the books. From everything I can see Portis eats, sleeps and breaths the game. I don't even think of him as an athlete...he's a spectacular football player. He takes extremely good care of himself and has shown a remarkable talent for adjusting his style to 1) fit the offensive system he's part of 2) take as little punishment as possible w/o sacrificing the team and 3) extend his career.

I do agree it's critical we implement a more true 2 back system because no human can carry the load CP has for more than a few years. But the biggest challenge toward that end (IMHO) will be convincing CP to take fewer carries. Zorn, whatever we think of him, displays a lot of integrity and character so if there's anyone who might get through to Portis it should be coach Z.

[LandrySlice]

let betts play 25% of the game, enough said, period!

[SouperMeister]

Originally Posted by The Goat

I'm not just throwing this out to play devil's advocate...i really believe CP has plenty of time left and by retirement the kid will hold every Skins RB record on the books. From everything I can see Portis eats, sleeps and breaths the game. I don't even think of him as an athlete...he's a spectacular football player. He takes extremely good care of himself and has shown a remarkable talent for adjusting his style to 1) fit the offensive system he's part of 2) take as little punishment as possible w/o sacrificing the team and 3) extend his career.

I do agree it's critical we implement a more true 2 back system because no human can carry the load CP has for more than a few years. But the biggest challenge toward that end (IMHO) will be convincing CP to take fewer carries. Zorn, whatever we think of him, displays a lot of integrity and character so if there's anyone who might get through to Portis it should be coach Z.

With as much mileage as Portis has accumulated playing our physical brand of football, it will become more important in coming years that Betts assumes some of that load. I'd love to see Betts get 8-10 carries and be used as a receiver from two back sets with Portis. I don't recall seeing them on the field together in the past, but I've always felt they would present matchup problems for opposing LBs. In similar fashion, I'm also hoping to see some two TE sets with Cooley and Davis.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by firstdown

Why do we need a change of pace if he is good at what he does?

This whole 'change of pace' back is a fad.
You just need 2 good backs in the NFL.
Style doesn't matter.

Vikes-Peterson has Chester Taylor he isn't a 'scat' back.
Panthers-DeAngelo Williams has Stewart not a 'scat' back.
Dolphins-Ronnie Brown & Ricky Williams
Ravens-McClain & McGahee
Seattle-Morris & Jones
etc...

Betts is a proven back in this league.
Saunders thought that Betts was better receiver then Portis, and i agree with him.

Bottom line is that Betts was hurt last year when we needed him the most.

Imo Sherman Smith is right they do need to get Betts more involved but i wonder if part of the problem with getting Betts the ball is Portis.
They have to sell Portis on giving up some plays to keep him fresh and running hard.

[53Fan]

Originally Posted by 30gut

This whole 'change of pace' back is a fad.
You just need 2 good backs in the NFL.
Style doesn't matter.

Vikes-Peterson has Chester Taylor he isn't a 'scat' back.
Panthers-DeAngelo Williams has Stewart not a 'scat' back.
Dolphins-Ronnie Brown & Ricky Williams
Ravens-McClain & McGahee
Seattle-Morris & Jones
etc...

Betts is a proven back in this league.
Saunders thought that Betts was better receiver then Portis, and i agree with him.

Bottom line is that Betts was hurt last year when we needed him the most.

Imo Sherman Smith is right they do need to get Betts more involved but i wonder if part of the problem with getting Betts the ball is Portis.
They have to sell Portis on giving up some plays to keep him fresh and running hard.

Same here. Portis is used to going in and out as he pleases. That has to change.

[tryfuhl]

Well this could definitely be a good thing. I wouldn't mind seeing Alridge get that 3rd spot and push for a bigger role in the coming years.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by 30gut

This whole 'change of pace' back is a fad.
You just need 2 good backs in the NFL.
Style doesn't matter.

Vikes-Peterson has Chester Taylor he isn't a 'scat' back.
Panthers-DeAngelo Williams has Stewart not a 'scat' back.
Dolphins-Ronnie Brown & Ricky Williams
Ravens-McClain & McGahee
Seattle-Morris & Jones
etc...

Betts is a proven back in this league.
Saunders thought that Betts was better receiver then Portis, and i agree with him.

Bottom line is that Betts was hurt last year when we needed him the most.

Imo Sherman Smith is right they do need to get Betts more involved but i wonder if part of the problem with getting Betts the ball is Portis.
They have to sell Portis on giving up some plays to keep him fresh and running hard.

Perhaps it is just a fad, but a fad that is working right now. The "Counter Trey" was a fad and has had to be tweeked and modified cause defenses caught up with it. The "Wild Cat" or what ever it's called is a fad but one that is working right now. Atleast until defenses figure out how to stop it.

Of course if you have two good runners to spell each other then your better off so having two talented RB's in these days is a must. My only confusion is why would you put two of the same style of runners in the backfield? both are between the tackles type of runners. Defenses know if it's run all they have to do is simply clog the middle. Otherwise it's back up and keep everything in front of you. Having a smaller faster RB in the back field with Portis would cause match up problems for the defenses. They would not know if the ball is going inside between the tackles, outside to the perimater, or if play action if it's going to be a pass. That right there keeps the defense honest. Fad...perhaps, but again it's just one more threat the team has and defenses has to worry about.

Betts is a proven player? His Rookie yr he got beat out by Trung Candidate. Then they brought in Portis for which he was relegated to second string cause he's definitly better then Rock. Betts had one good yr-2006. The only yr he had to be utilized due to injury. He filled in admirably but he still had his issues. He always had a hard time getting the 4th and 2 or the 4th and 3 yardage. On an important drive that would have given the team the go ahead score he fumbled. I'm not trying to down play his achievements but to me he's still suspect at being a proven player. Lots of players have had one good yr. Yes the coach's always see something in him they like. Who knows what that is....attitude, character, work ethic, potential...who knows. Yes he is a better pass catching RB only cause Portis was not utilized in that capacity as much. Portis has gotten better in that area. Which is why he gets a lot of screens.

But my issue is not whether Betts is a good #2 or not. It's the fact that he is the same type of player as Portis. If 90 % of you plays are between the tackles then having both is a good idea so you have two who can slam the ball through the line. If you are trying to create plays to the outside of the line or edge plays to keep the defense guessing then Portis or Betts are not going to get the job done. Their not fast enough. Portis used to but he put on weight to be the hard hitting back Gibbs wanted. Then he tried losing weight for Saunders, but Portis is no longer the type of back to go to the edge.

I'm not complaining that we have Betts. He can keep spelling Portis and on some plays they can use the scat back. But all in all .....Betts and Rock are 29 y/o and Portis is 27 y/o. Funny how we talk about getting younger and healthier on the O-line but our skills positions don't need to get younger. To be honest. I like Moss, but I seriously hope DT and MK both work out for us. Then they can start taking the majority of the load and Moss can come in on specific plays. I'm not sure where ARE is at this point. He's not being utilized like Pitt used him. He's not producing like he was in Pitt. He's not a #2 WR. Right now for us all he is, is a gadget play. I'd rather see the two new WR's Williams and Mitchell make the team so we have 4 young tall healthy WR's. Especially for red zone plays. So to me the whole team is getting older and I would like to see them get younger.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by 30gut

This whole 'change of pace' back is a fad.
You just need 2 good backs in the NFL.
Style doesn't matter.

I agree.

I think it's mainly a misconception with the fans. Sproles has everyone thinking you need a smaller/faster kind of back to bring in. In reality you just need two quality backs regardless of style.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I agree.

I think it's mainly a misconception with the fans. Sproles has everyone thinking you need a smaller/faster kind of back to bring in. In reality you just need two quality backs regardless of style.

Yes you guys could be right. Maybe I have no clue what I'm talking about. But the team apparently seems to think they need the change of pace back cause that's what the position coach said on Redskins Nation. He stated the team was going to look for the change of pace back or scat back. Then they bring in two smaller speedier RB's. Hmmm. If it's just a fad and not needed one would think Zorn would say "we don't need it. we have Betts." but apparently he agrees cause the team brought in not 1 but 2 smaller speedier backs to take a look at.

[MTK]

I'd be very surprised if our backs come week 1 are not Portis, Betts, and Rock.

[tryfuhl]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I'd be very surprised if our backs come week 1 are not Portis, Betts, and Rock.

With the way things are being reported it looks like this would be the case, especially if the decision was made today. I just read about Alridge just learning how to field punts within the past week or so -- has there been any news about him in the KR game?

[Beemnseven]

I remember a preseason game back in 1990 against the Raiders with John Riggins on color commentary. At one point during the game, after Brian Mitchell had returned 2, perhaps three punt returns for touchdowns, Riggins said, "barring another Brian Mitchell punt return for a TD we may actually get to see the offense play a series."

That's the key for the guys behind Rock. If one of them shows that they can return kicks and punts better than Cartwright can, I'd say Rock is gone.

This team is desparate for a firecracker at the kick/punt return position, and guys like Rock Cartwright are a dime a dozen in this league.

[hooskins]

Someone may have already said this but Zorn, IMO, went away from Betts because it was much simpler to continue to the Gibbs like running game with Portis. It is much easier and I guess Zorn felt committed to using a proven player as much as he could during his first year.

Saunders actually used Betts a fair deal but the TO problems really plagued him. I think we might see some more Betts this year.

I can't understand why he didn't shop himself after that good season a couple years ago, Washington was obviously dead-end. He could have been a starter anywhere else

[30gut]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

Yes you guys could be right. Maybe I have no clue what I'm talking about. But the team apparently seems to think they need the change of pace back cause that's what the position coach said on Redskins Nation. He stated the team was going to look for the change of pace back or scat back. Then they bring in two smaller speedier RB's. Hmmm. If it's just a fad and not needed one would think Zorn would say "we don't need it. we have Betts." but apparently he agrees cause the team brought in not 1 but 2 smaller speedier backs to take a look at.

Those backs that were brought in are long shots to even make the team, much less become a featured part of the offense.

When you speak about what the team is apparently thinking i'll take me ques from the OC:

"The guy that's been standing out to me is Ladell Betts," Smith said of the running back who serves as Clinton Portis's backup. "To me, he's stepped his game up. He's preparing like he's a starter. He's taken a leadership role, which I'm not saying he wasn't a leader before, but I just think he's a very good player. He's jumped out to me.

Redskins Insider - Smith: Offense Up To Speed -- And Watch Betts

[vallin21]

Originally Posted by 30gut

Those backs that were brought in are long shots to even make the team, much less become a featured part of the offense.

When you speak about what the team is apparently thinking i'll take me ques from the OC:

"The guy that's been standing out to me is Ladell Betts," Smith said of the running back who serves as Clinton Portis's backup. "To me, he's stepped his game up. He's preparing like he's a starter. He's taken a leadership role, which I'm not saying he wasn't a leader before, but I just think he's a very good player. He's jumped out to me.

Redskins Insider - Smith: Offense Up To Speed -- And Watch Betts

They're definitely not long shots, there's a reason why Zorn got 2 RB's that are speed backs and 1 whose a tweener, so I think it's pretty obvious they're looking for an upgrade. We just don't know what these guys can do yet. I'd bet a pretty penny Rock gets cut after Preseason.