Langston Walker Cut:

[stu_nna]

Originally Posted by jdlea

He's still better than a feel good story who gets a roster spot for losing weight. I like Mike Williams and I hope he succeeds, but I just don't think he can block well enough to warrant a spot on the roster right now. I say, go after Walker and cut Williams (or Batiste) if he signs.

Cut Williams? No thanks, this guy is a powerful run blocker who just has rust cause he hasn't played for years. Once his body get adjusted to the NFL (ill say week 4) he is going to be a force to be reckoned with. Too much upside to warrant cutting

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by stu_nna

Cut Williams? No thanks, this guy is a powerful run blocker who just has rust cause he hasn't played for years. Once his body get adjusted to the NFL (ill say week 4) he is going to be a force to be reckoned with. Too much upside to warrant cutting

He's been out of the game for two years and you can already see his body is never ever going to hold up. I'd be on the phone with the guy Buff. cut asap.

[Southpaw]

Originally Posted by stu_nna

Cut Williams? No thanks, this guy is a powerful run blocker who just has rust cause he hasn't played for years. Once his body get adjusted to the NFL (ill say week 4) he is going to be a force to be reckoned with. Too much upside to warrant cutting

When was the last time anyone of note considered Mike Williams a "powerful run blocker"? College, maybe? And how much upside can an out of shape, 29 year old offensive tackle that was released while he was in his prime possible have?

Mike Williams is useless right now, when they are very much in need of depth on the offensive line. I still can't figure out the logic, if any, that was used in making the decision to keep him. I don't see how it could hurt to take a look at a guy that actually played in the league, last season.

[jdlea]

Originally Posted by Southpaw

When was the last time anyone of note considered Mike Williams a "powerful run blocker"? College, maybe? And how much upside can an out of shape, 29 year old offensive tackle that was released while he was in his prime possible have?

Mike Williams is useless right now, when they are very much in need of depth on the offensive line. I still can't figure out the logic, if any, that was used in making the decision to keep him. I don't see how it could hurt to take a look at a guy that actually played in the league, last season.

Seriously, the only time he ever had upside, he was coming out of Texas. He never lived up to his potential. Everyone wants to be enamored by the fact that he was a first round pick 7 years ago. It's no accident that he was out of the league for 2 years, he's not a very good football player. He did nothing to disprove that in the final preseason game.

I can't, for the life of me, understand why he stayed over Bridges. I like him and admire his work ethic, but the fact remains that I can't think of one DE who can't beat him off the ball.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by jdlea

Seriously, the only time he ever had upside, he was coming out of Texas. He never lived up to his potential. Everyone wants to be enamored by the fact that he was a first round pick 7 years ago. It's no accident that he was out of the league for 2 years, he's not a very good football player. He did nothing to disprove that in the final preseason game.

I can't, for the life of me, understand why he stayed over Bridges. I like him and admire his work ethic, but the fact remains that I can't think of one DE who can't beat him off the ball.

Just a couple of things to think about Williams.....
-Many people never thought he'd make it down to the weight he did.
-The biggest adjustment to the NFL from college is speed and depth of talent, it's going to take a few weeks of reps as the scout team against our 1st D to get MW back up to "speed".
- MW & Dock are buddies since college. We bring in MW, he works his ass off and does everything asked of him, and then we cut him without him getting a shot to get completely back in game shape? I'd say that would affect Dock's mind-set.
- Buges isn't an idiot.
- What if, just what if, he returns to close to the player he was at TX. We'll have gotten one of the major steals of the off-season, possibly any off-season. If he doesn't make it back, what have we lost....nothing. Bridges isn't a significant upgrade anyway, if he was he'd still be here.

[jdlea]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

Just a couple of things to think about Williams.....
-Many people never thought he'd make it down to the weight he did.
-The biggest adjustment to the NFL from college is speed and depth of talent, it's going to take a few weeks of reps as the scout team against our 1st D to get MW back up to "speed".
- MW & Dock are buddies since college. We bring in MW, he works his ass off and does everything asked of him, and then we cut him without him getting a shot to get completely back in game shape? I'd say that would affect Dock's mind-set.
- Buges isn't an idiot.
- What if, just what if, he returns to close to the player he was at TX. We'll have gotten one of the major steals of the off-season, possibly any off-season. If he doesn't make it back, what have we lost....nothing. Bridges isn't a significant upgrade anyway, if he was he'd still be here.

To your points:
I already said I commend him for cutting the weight and I'm pulling for him, but if there's an upgrade available it should be made.

Speed? The guy must never have adjusted because he's never been effective, even when he was in his prime.

Dockery's feelings shouldn't have anything to do with keeping Williams on the team.

I agree with you about Bugel, I think he can coach him up, but we didn't get much out of Heyer last year who is (presently) a far better football player than Mike Williams. If Bugel could turn everyone into great lineman, we wouldn't have gone downhill last year. There has to be more than just a body there, there needs to be a lot of talent to play RT at this level.

Okay, that's a fair point. How likely do you think that is? And the counterpoint is obviously, "what if he doesn't?" What if he's a turnstyle like he was in Buffalo and Jacksonville?

He was a first round pick who was cut after 4 season and 48 starts, he had one hell of a shot to make it in the NFL when it was far more likely that he would. He even signed on with Jacksonville after being cut and couldn't stay in the league then, there's nothing that suggest Mike Williams will be a "find." There is evidence he could be garbage. See: Mike Williams' career.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by jdlea

He was a first round pick who was cut after 4 season and 48 starts, he had one hell of a shot to make it in the NFL when it was far more likely that he would. He even signed on with Jacksonville after being cut and couldn't stay in the league then, there's nothing that suggest Mike Williams will be a "find." There is evidence he could be garbage. See: Mike Williams' career

I agree with you if we can find a significant upgrade we should make the move, but Walker doesn't appear to be it. I would not want to outright release MW if possible(though I'm not sure how we could do it).

- MW was always seen as more of mauling run blocker, not a great pass-pro guy. Normally the LDE isn't going to have tremendous speed off the edge, although there are exceptions.

- I agree Dock's feelings shouldn't really be taken into much consideration, but in reality it could have an effect and doesn't send a good message. Although the Patriots send some crappy messages to veteran players and they seem to be fine.

- Maybe 40% at this point, but Buges should be able to make the determination by week 4 if MW is picking it up or not. If so, great, win. If not we don't take a cap hit and dump the guy for the best available player out there or bring back Bridges or one of the other released players.

- I'm being optimistic, and hoping that this guy realizes what he was throwing away (his life, football) by his laziness. Hopefully his newfound work ethic will pay off for him and the Skins. You're right the evidence points to the opposite, but I'm relying on Buges' 30+ years of experience to be able to determine this is the right move.[/quote]

[backrow]

I've watched the 2nd half of the Jax game on my DVR just in order to watch MW. He's nothing special except this years Burgandy & Gold biggest loser. And I mean that in the nicest way!

[jdlea]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

I agree with you if we can find a significant upgrade we should make the move, but Walker doesn't appear to be it. I would not want to outright release MW if possible(though I'm not sure how we could do it).

- MW was always seen as more of mauling run blocker, not a great pass-pro guy. Normally the LDE isn't going to have tremendous speed off the edge, although there are exceptions.

- I agree Dock's feelings shouldn't really be taken into much consideration, but in reality it could have an effect and doesn't send a good message. Although the Patriots send some crappy messages to veteran players and they seem to be fine.

- Maybe 40% at this point, but Buges should be able to make the determination by week 4 if MW is picking it up or not. If so, great, win. If not we don't take a cap hit and dump the guy for the best available player out there or bring back Bridges or one of the other released players.

- I'm being optimistic, and hoping that this guy realizes what he was throwing away (his life, football) by his laziness. Hopefully his newfound work ethic will pay off for him and the Skins. You're right the evidence points to the opposite, but I'm relying on Buges' 30+ years of experience to be able to determine this is the right move.

And that's fine, you and I just happen to disagree on these points. I wish I were as optimistic as you are. However, I'm just not sold on him being great. It doesn't mean I'm not rooting for him. If he hits the field, I hope he's the best tackle I've ever seen, I just don't believe it would happen and I think that Walker would be an upgrade.

I would like to add, Walker would have to come at the right price, knowing there's no competition, he's the backup. Like Matty said before, we don't know that he'd take that, but those would be the conditions under which I'd pursue him.

[stu_nna]

Originally Posted by jdlea

Seriously, the only time he ever had upside, he was coming out of Texas. He never lived up to his potential. Everyone wants to be enamored by the fact that he was a first round pick 7 years ago. It's no accident that he was out of the league for 2 years, he's not a very good football player. He did nothing to disprove that in the final preseason game.

I can't, for the life of me, understand why he stayed over Bridges. I like him and admire his work ethic, but the fact remains that I can't think of one DE who can't beat him off the ball.

I dont get it. Everyone had a chance to prove themselves and improve threw 4 preseason games. Willams gets one game and now we are supposed to cut ties? Not only that he has two bad plays and all of a sudden he's our worst offensive lineman. Im not buying that. Nor am i buying he's washed up at the age of 29. This guy has potential and i was not suprised in the least to see him stay. We gave Heyer time and it panned very well. I think Bugel likes what he sees, I know i do.

[Southpaw]

Originally Posted by stu_nna

I think Bugel likes what he sees, I know i do.

What exactly have you seen from him to like, as far as helping this football team? All I know about Mike Williams is that he'd have a good chance of winning if he were on The Biggest Loser.

And I keep hearing "upside" and "potential", but those terms aren't usually applied to a player that was drafted seven seasons ago, and cut three seasons ago.

[GridIron26]

Redskins Insider - Dockery's Ex-Teammate Seems Unlikely Fit

[jdlea]

Originally Posted by stu_nna

I dont get it. Everyone had a chance to prove themselves and improve threw 4 preseason games. Willams gets one game and now we are supposed to cut ties? Not only that he has two bad plays and all of a sudden he's our worst offensive lineman. Im not buying that. Nor am i buying he's washed up at the age of 29. This guy has potential and i was not suprised in the least to see him stay. We gave Heyer time and it panned very well. I think Bugel likes what he sees, I know i do.

The problem is Heyer wasn't 29 when the Skins got him. If Mike Williams is on the Stephon Heyer learning curve he'll be 32 when he's ready to contribute. He has no more potential at this point than he did coming out of college when he was mediocre at best.

Everyone's reacting like I hate the guy. I hope he finds NFL success. I just don't care if it's in Washington. There are plenty of guys out there who can help this team. If Walker is better than him (I happen to think he is) then the Skins should go get him. Plain and simple. Tons of decisions like this happen everyday, this wouldn't be the first time a team gave up on a 29 year old with upside...actually, maybe it would, because 29 year olds generally have no upside, they've reached their potential and if Mike Williams reached his back in Buffalo, he's not worth keeping around while he works himself back in shape.

[Longtimefan]

Originally Posted by stu_nna

Cut Williams? No thanks, this guy is a powerful run blocker who just has rust cause he hasn't played for years. Once his body get adjusted to the NFL (ill say week 4) he is going to be a force to be reckoned with. Too much upside to warrant cutting

I agree, and the points you make are the reason's he's here.