Jon Gruden's QB Camp

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by murphy196

You're referencing the guy drinking when he was 19, WHO CARES? I'm just sick of you getting on here talking trash about the kid. You are an IDIOT, THE END!

Clausen is a gigantic douche. You resemble that comment. Haha. I could care less what you're sick of. You still have yet to say why he's NOT a little dbag. Stop crying for little Jimmy, please. It's not very flattering.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by GMScud

Clausen is a gigantic douche. You resemble that comment. Haha. I could care less what you're sick of. You still have yet to say why he's NOT a little dbag. Stop crying for little Jimmy, please. It's not very flattering.

- He was unanimously voted a captain at ND his Junior season.
- Golden Tate and other ND receivers supported him at his personal workout when they didn't have to, especially Tate. He had a great combine and ND Pro Day, he had nothing to gain from supporting Clausen.
- Yes, he looks like an emu. But hey, everyone has to have some flaw.
- Based on the comments on this board about Campbell, if he had gone out to bars in the DC area after a few games this year he probably would've gotten punched too.
- Speedo picture.....well Photoshop is not always a good thing.
-Is there a quote from a teammate or coach at ND questioning his leadership abilities? "Unnamed sources" don't count.
- Kiper has great inside access at the college level, if he had heard any of this stuff from a reliable source, he would've pulled back on his assessment of him.

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

- He was unanimously voted a captain at ND his Junior season.
- Golden Tate and other ND receivers supported him at his personal workout when they didn't have to, especially Tate. He had a great combine and ND Pro Day, he had nothing to gain from supporting Clausen.
- Yes, he looks like an emu. But hey, everyone has to have some flaw.
- Based on the comments on this board about Campbell, if he had gone out to bars in the DC area after a few games this year he probably would've gotten punched too.
- Speedo picture.....well Photoshop is not always a good thing.
-Is there a quote from a teammate or coach at ND questioning his leadership abilities? "Unnamed sources" don't count.
- Kiper has great inside access at the college level, if he had heard any of this stuff from a reliable source, he would've pulled back on his assessment of him.

Get em Sammy.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

- He was unanimously voted a captain at ND his Junior season.
- Golden Tate and other ND receivers supported him at his personal workout when they didn't have to, especially Tate. He had a great combine and ND Pro Day, he had nothing to gain from supporting Clausen.
- Yes, he looks like an emu. But hey, everyone has to have some flaw.
- Based on the comments on this board about Campbell, if he had gone out to bars in the DC area after a few games this year he probably would've gotten punched too.
- Speedo picture.....well Photoshop is not always a good thing.
-Is there a quote from a teammate or coach at ND questioning his leadership abilities? "Unnamed sources" don't count.
- Kiper has great inside access at the college level, if he had heard any of this stuff from a reliable source, he would've pulled back on his assessment of him.

SS33, you're always very good at making your arguments. When Murphy196 speaks, I really don't hear anything of substance.

Again, nowhere in this thread have I said Jimmy Clausen will be a bad NFL QB.

Just because Golden Tate didn't throw him under the bus doesn't mean he's a good guy. After all, Clausen is a big part of the reason that Tate put up the numbers he did. Why turn around and crap on him? And why wouldn't the other receivers support him at the pro day? They get to workout in front of NFL scouts with a future 1st round pick throwing them passes.

Also, just because Kiper says so doesn't mean it's true/untrue. Schefter and McShay also both have great access in the football world, and they both confirm that there are legit question marks about his leadership ability and locker presence (or lack thereof).

Look, I'm a Tebow fan because I'm a Florida alum and he's the best athlete in our school's history. He's a winner, leader, and great kid. That said, I think Clausen will probably be a better NFL QB, however I think given the right situation, Tebow can succeed in the pros as well. I just don't like Calusen one bit, and I've stated my reasons why. It's pretty obvious that Tebow, Bradford, and McCoy all have better intangibles than Jimmy the Douche.

[GMScud]

Also, Jimmy Clausen went 16-21 as a starter. I know it's a team sport, just saying. When's the last time a QB who lost 5 more games than he won was considered a possible top 5 pick?

You can argue that he's a good leader, but he certainly didn't rally the troops to very many victories.

Oh, side note- in his 3 seasons as a full time starter, Tebow went 35-6.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by GMScud

Also, Jimmy Clausen went 16-21 as a starter. I know it's a team sport, just saying. When's the last time a QB who lost 5 more games than he won is being considered a possible top 5 pick?

You can argue that he's a good leader, but he certainly didn't rally the troops to very many victories.

Oh, side note- in his 3 seasons as a full time starter, Tebow went 35-6.

Wins and losses at the college level doesn't mean very much as far as identifying quality pro prospects. Come on GM your bringing some weak stuff to the table in this thread.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Wins and losses at the college level doesn't mean very much as far as identifying quality pro prospects. Come on GM your bringing some weak stuff to the table in this thread.

Really? I was only trying to make one simple point in this entire thread- I don't like Jimmy Clausen as the leader of a football team. And I stated my reasons why. I'm not trying to argue some intricate X's-O's type thing. I also have repeatedly said I think he'll probably be a good pro. SS33 made fair points, however nothing anyone says in this thread about Clausen is going to change my opinion of him.

As far as the wins-losses thing, I was just pointing out that he didn't rally his team to very many wins. Fact.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by GMScud

Really? I was only trying to make one simple point in this entire thread- I don't like Jimmy Clausen as the leader of a football team. And I stated my reasons why. I'm not trying to argue some intricate X's-O's type thing. I also have repeatedly said I think he'll probably be a good pro. SS33 made fair points, however nothing anyone says in this thread about Clausen is going to change my opinion of him.

As far as the wins-losses thing, I was just pointing out that he didn't rally his team to very many wins. Fact.

It's fine if you don't like him, but as biased as you are in your man love of Tebow you seem biased against Clausen in the opposite way.

Wins and losses are pretty irrelevant, especially when comparing schools like Notre Dame and Florida. They aren't on the same playing field as far as recruiting.

[murphy196]

Originally Posted by GMScud

Really? I was only trying to make one simple point in this entire thread- I don't like Jimmy Clausen as the leader of a football team. And I stated my reasons why. I'm not trying to argue some intricate X's-O's type thing. I also have repeatedly said I think he'll probably be a good pro. SS33 made fair points, however nothing anyone says in this thread about Clausen is going to change my opinion of him.

As far as the wins-losses thing, I was just pointing out that he didn't rally his team to very many wins. Fact.

The thing that sucked for Jimmy while he was at ND is that he never had a Defense that could stop anyone and hold a lead for his team. Jimmy did what he could to put them in a position to win a lot of ballgames, I mean you can't expect him to go out there on Defense too!

[Redskin Jim]

Originally Posted by GMScud

Really? I was only trying to make one simple point in this entire thread- I don't like Jimmy Clausen as the leader of a football team. And I stated my reasons why. I'm not trying to argue some intricate X's-O's type thing. I also have repeatedly said I think he'll probably be a good pro. SS33 made fair points, however nothing anyone says in this thread about Clausen is going to change my opinion of him.

As far as the wins-losses thing, I was just pointing out that he didn't rally his team to very many wins. Fact.

This mirrors my thoughts exactly. I'm with you on this one GMScud.

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by GMScud

Also, Jimmy Clausen went 16-21 as a starter. I know it's a team sport, just saying. When's the last time a QB who lost 5 more games than he won is being considered a possible top 5 pick?

You can argue that he's a good leader, but he certainly didn't rally the troops to very many victories.

Oh, side note- in his 3 seasons as a full time starter, Tebow went 35-6.

When you put up 30.1 PPG and 337.9 passing yards per game and lead multiple 4th quarter comebacks, well lets say I can live with that. I personally hate that stat in football. It's acceptable in hockey and baseball for Goalies and Pitchers but in football it just doesn't work. For example Drew Brees had an amazing statistical year in 2008 (5,069 Passing Yards 34 TD's 17 INT's) yet the Saints were 8-8. Does that make Brees an Average, middle of the road QB? No.

I do love me some Tebow though, and who wouldn't. If you can't root for a guy like Tebow then man, you don't like your own kids.

Originally Posted by Eknox

I couldn't hear ya take Tebow's _ _ _ _ out of your mouth first Batch!

WTF?

[Eknox]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag359

When you put up 30.1 PPG and 337.9 passing yards per game and lead multiple 4th quarter comebacks, well lets say I can live with that. I personally hate that stat in football. It's acceptable in hockey and baseball for Goalies and Pitchers but in football it just doesn't work. For example Drew Brees had an amazing statistical year in 2008 (5,069 Passing Yards 34 TD's 17 INT's) yet the Saints were 8-8. Does that make Brees an Average, middle of the road QB? No.

I do love me some Tebow though, and who wouldn't. If you can't root for a guy like Tebow then man, you don't like your own kids.



WTF?

you're right, My bad apologies to you GM Scud, that was un called for on my part.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by GMScud

SS33, you're always very good at making your arguments. When Murphy196 speaks, I really don't hear anything of substance.

Thanks and LOL. I enjoy your posts also, plus we're on the same page a vast majority of the time.

Again, nowhere in this thread have I said Jimmy Clausen will be a bad NFL QB.

I know you didn't. You've been very fair in your assessment and statements about him....other than the douchiness. But some of the douchiness is warranted and Clausen has no one to blame but himself. That picture of him with the coat and rings on his signing day was incredibly stupid.

Just because Golden Tate didn't throw him under the bus doesn't mean he's a good guy. After all, Clausen is a big part of the reason that Tate put up the numbers he did. Why turn around and crap on him? And why wouldn't the other receivers support him at the pro day? They get to workout in front of NFL scouts with a future 1st round pick throwing them passes.

If Clausen was such an a-hole or "had leadership issues" I'm sure Tate and at least a couple of the other WRs would've had "scheduling conflicts" or "family issues" to attend to. They wouldn't have openly thrown him under the bus.

Also, just because Kiper says so doesn't mean it's true/untrue. Schefter and McShay also both have great access in the football world, and they both confirm that there are legit question marks about his leadership ability and locker presence (or lack thereof).

Schefter isn't a scout/talent evaluator, he's a reporter, so I couldn't care less what he thinks. I hate to quote a PFT article with "unnamed sources" but based on this it appears people who scout for a living have some questions about McShay, but not Kiper or Mayock.

Todd McShay backlash builds | ProFootballTalk.com

Look, I'm a Tebow fan because I'm a Florida alum and he's the best athlete in our school's history. He's a winner, leader, and great kid. That said, I think Clausen will probably be a better NFL QB, however I think given the right situation, Tebow can succeed in the pros as well. I just don't like Calusen one bit, and I've stated my reasons why. It's pretty obvious that Tebow, Bradford, and McCoy all have better intangibles than Jimmy the Douche.

I understand your opinion about Tebow, although we don't share the same opinion of his translation into the NFL. But that transition problem will be a physical/technique/ability issue, not character. I also could be completely wrong and he makes the transition after 2-3 years.

On the intangibles, I think Bradford/McCoy are unknowns. Both come from big programs with superior talent and haven't been under the gun with equal or sub-par talent compared to their opponents. When McCoy was under the gun, he looked pretty bad (Big XII Championship). Bradford was average at best against Florida....I'm sure you saw that one.

I think freshman Clausen absolutely had leadership/maturity issues, Junior Clausen...not so much.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

Thanks and LOL. I enjoy your posts also, plus we're on the same page a vast majority of the time.

I know you didn't. You've been very fair in your assessment and statements about him....other than the douchiness. But some of the douchiness is warranted and Clausen has no one to blame but himself. That picture of him with the coat and rings on his signing day was incredibly stupid.

If Clausen was such an a-hole or "had leadership issues" I'm sure Tate and at least a couple of the other WRs would've had "scheduling conflicts" or "family issues" to attend to. They wouldn't have openly thrown him under the bus.

Schefter isn't a scout/talent evaluator, he's a reporter, so I couldn't care less what he thinks. I hate to quote a PFT article with "unnamed sources" but based on this it appears people who scout for a living have some questions about McShay, but not Kiper or Mayock.

Todd McShay backlash builds | ProFootballTalk.com

I understand your opinion about Tebow, although we don't share the same opinion of his translation into the NFL. But that transition problem will be a physical/technique/ability issue, not character. I also could be completely wrong and he makes the transition after 2-3 years.

On the intangibles, I think Bradford/McCoy are unknowns. Both come from big programs with superior talent and haven't been under the gun with equal or sub-par talent compared to their opponents. When McCoy was under the gun, he looked pretty bad (Big XII Championship). Bradford was average at best against Florida....I'm sure you saw that one.

I think freshman Clausen absolutely had leadership/maturity issues, Junior Clausen...not so much.

All fair points.

As to what you said about how these QBs played against big time competition, Tebow did his damage against the murderer's row that is the SEC while Notre Dame was busy losing to Navy back to back years. I know that Tebow had superior talent around him at Florida, but he does have the experience of playing against SEC defenses under his belt. However I do think he's gonna need to ride an NFL bench behind an established starter for at least 2 years if he hopes to have success.

If I had to rank the top 4 QBs as far as how successful I think they'll be in the NFL, I go Bradford, Clausen, Tebow, McCoy.