Rex Grossman on NFL Radio Sunday

[NLC1054]

Wasn't one of the things McNabb used to be renowned for is making a bunch of unknown and less than talented receivers look like star talent?

And that doesn't explain how Rex friggin' Grossman, with the same weapons, with the same bad o-line, with the same playcaller, was able to come in, after not playing for a year (whether he knew the offense or didn't) and was able to at least appear to play well and milk more production out of those weapons.

Jay Cutler had to learn a completely different offense, coming off a bad year, with a bad offensive line, and only one Pro Bowl receiver, and the other favorite target he had was benched by the offensive coordinator. He struggled at first, but over the course of the year, you saw that he was getting more and more comfortable with the offense.

Mike Martz molded his offense to things Jay was more comfortable doing, and Jay became more comfortable running Martz offense.

This notion that Donovan didn't have enough time in the offense is silly. We traded for him in April. He was at every OTA, every minicamp, had a whole training camp, two preseason games and thirteen regular season games to get a handle of the offense. Kyle added things he was more comfortable with and he still couldn't run it. He just wasn't a fit here, and was apparently a little hard-headed and wanted to do things his way.

The best offensive coordinator/quarterback relationships come from a willingness to work together. At some point, it became clear that there wasn't going to be a middle ground found between the two.

I am under no delusions that we are anywhere close to being a playoff team. Far friggin' from it. I think we're closer to being decent than we are from being cellar dwellers, but playoff teams are built, and we still have a lot of building to do.

And rather than getting upset about who leaked what, why not get upset by the fact that, instead of being interested in winning football games and being better, McNabb was more concerned with the fact that wearing an wristband would make him "look bad".

Why not get upset that he didn't practice hard? That he's the last guy on the practice field instead of the first? That he wasn't in the best condition?

I respect what McNabb has done in the past, and I think the organization had a hand in some of the shennigans that happened, but McNabb had more than his fair share to do with it. That's all anyone is saying.

The blame is shared.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by NLC1054

Wasn't one of the things McNabb used to be renowned for is making a bunch of unknown and less than talented receivers look like star talent?

And that doesn't explain how Rex friggin' Grossman, with the same weapons, with the same bad o-line, with the same playcaller, was able to come in, after not playing for a year (whether he knew the offense or didn't) and was able to at least appear to play well and milk more production out of those weapons.

Jay Cutler had to learn a completely different offense, coming off a bad year, with a bad offensive line, and only one Pro Bowl receiver, and the other favorite target he had was benched by the offensive coordinator. He struggled at first, but over the course of the year, you saw that he was getting more and more comfortable with the offense.

Mike Martz molded his offense to things Jay was more comfortable doing, and Jay became more comfortable running Martz offense.

This notion that Donovan didn't have enough time in the offense is silly. We traded for him in April. He was at every OTA, every minicamp, had a whole training camp, two preseason games and thirteen regular season games to get a handle of the offense. Kyle added things he was more comfortable with and he still couldn't run it. He just wasn't a fit here, and was apparently a little hard-headed and wanted to do things his way.

The best offensive coordinator/quarterback relationships come from a willingness to work together. At some point, it became clear that there wasn't going to be a middle ground found between the two.

I am under no delusions that we are anywhere close to being a playoff team. Far friggin' from it. I think we're closer to being decent than we are from being cellar dwellers, but playoff teams are built, and we still have a lot of building to do.

And rather than getting upset about who leaked what, why not get upset by the fact that, instead of being interested in winning football games and being better, McNabb was more concerned with the fact that wearing an wristband would make him "look bad".

Why not get upset that he didn't practice hard? That he's the last guy on the practice field instead of the first? That he wasn't in the best condition?

I respect what McNabb has done in the past, and I think the organization had a hand in some of the shennigans that happened, but McNabb had more than his fair share to do with it. That's all anyone is saying.

The blame is shared.

This.

I hate that this devolved into a blame game between Kyle and Donovan because at the end of the day it's meaningless.

Here's the forward spin, Kyle will be here in 2011 (and beyond) and Donovan won't. With what Grossman said, are we in good hands with a QB who is totally bought in and experienced in the system-as flawed as he is?

[fanarchist]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

This.

I hate that this devolved into a blame game between Kyle and Donovan because at the end of the day it's meaningless.

Here's the forward spin, Kyle will be here in 2011 (and beyond) and Donovan won't. With what Grossman said, are we in good hands with a QB who is totally bought in and experienced in the system-as flawed as he is?

I'm sorry you hate the de-evolution of this conversation. But some people are looking to define their opinions on whether or not Kyle directly contributed to Donovan's downfall in DC. If he sabotaged a guy who some of us consider a capable QB. I can't deny that McNabb won't be here and Kyle will. I'm more curious as to whether McNabb will join another team and be yet another name in a long list of former redskins players who were released prematurely, criticized to harshly and regained their glory on someone elses roster.

At some point you have to learn from past mistakes. Just seems like we hire different faces to make the same ones.

[NLC1054]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

Here's the forward spin, Kyle will be here in 2011 (and beyond) and Donovan won't. With what Grossman said, are we in good hands with a QB who is totally bought in and experienced in the system-as flawed as he is?

You know...I kinda always thought Rex go a raw deal in Chicago. That run the Bears made to the Super Bowl, the Bears has a top flight defense, sure. But they also had the number one scoring offense.

There's no doubt he struggled, and maybe he wasn't as dedicated to his craaft as he should've been there. But the Bears also never seem overly concerned with developing their quarterbacks (see: not drafting Jay Cutler a single wide receiver in this year's draft) and instead are keen to rely on their defense, sometimes to the detriment. I mean, who's the last franchise quarterback the Bears had?

But he strikes me as a guy who needs a new start, and this system seems to suit what he does well. His decision is still damn near baffling sometimes, but looking at the situations from this season, I can really only think of two interceptions that were really his fault, and better offensive line play might help us to avoid that nasty problem he has with fumbling.

(And to his credit, when he did fumble the ball, most of the times it seems like he was making an effort to cover up the ball, when he wasn't getting blindsided by the rush).

He's older, wiser, he knows what Mike and Kyle expect out of their starting quarterback. He might not take us to a Super Bowl, but as a one or two year stop gap, I'm fine with him. I think he's willing to put the work in and can be effective, and if anyone can help mold a quarterback into a more productive player, it's Mike Shanahan.

I mean he took Gus Ferrotte to the friggin' playoffs, after all.

[fanarchist]

Originally Posted by NLC1054

You know...I kinda always thought Rex go a raw deal in Chicago. That run the Bears made to the Super Bowl, the Bears has a top flight defense, sure. But they also had the number one scoring offense.

There's no doubt he struggled, and maybe he wasn't as dedicated to his craaft as he should've been there. But the Bears also never seem overly concerned with developing their quarterbacks (see: not drafting Jay Cutler a single wide receiver in this year's draft) and instead are keen to rely on their defense, sometimes to the detriment. I mean, who's the last franchise quarterback the Bears had?

But he strikes me as a guy who needs a new start, and this system seems to suit what he does well. His decision is still damn near baffling sometimes, but looking at the situations from this season, I can really only think of two interceptions that were really his fault, and better offensive line play might help us to avoid that nasty problem he has with fumbling.

(And to his credit, when he did fumble the ball, most of the times it seems like he was making an effort to cover up the ball, when he wasn't getting blindsided by the rush).

He's older, wiser, he knows what Mike and Kyle expect out of their starting quarterback. He might not take us to a Super Bowl, but as a one or two year stop gap, I'm fine with him. I think he's willing to put the work in and can be effective, and if anyone can help mold a quarterback into a more productive player, it's Mike Shanahan.

I mean he took Gus Ferrotte to the friggin' playoffs, after all.

There was absolutely no game film on the dude in this offense from which opposing defenses could draw tendency and he still only won a single game in three starts. Matt Moore played well before defenses caught on to his weaknesses. Mike Vick was stellar in the early goings last season before the Giants wrote a blueprint on how to contain him and his production took a rapid decline as he became one of the most sacked QBs in the second half of the season. It was the same for Sanchez in his first season when he became an interception machine mid way through the season. Etc etc.

Rex is already in his old dog/new tricks stage. He proved he still make poor decisions with the ball in clutch situations. It's like he dips his hands in grease before every snap. He has difficulty getting velocity on the ball when rolling out on the play action bootleg and when it's not designed he has trouble improvising, eluding the rush and throwing on the run. He's only 6-1 so when he stands in the pocket he can barely see over the linemen which makes it hard for him to see throwing lanes. His lack of height will also lead to a slew of batted balls (ala Mike Vick, also 6-1), which means what class, that's right, more interceptions. He drops his head when attempting to aviod duress which closes split second windows of opportunity. Mike Shanahans good, but not that good. He needs a pixie fairy in the land of daffodils and delusion to sprinkle him with some magical dust just so he can grab his one way ticket to Never Never Land. If there's a band aid waiting in the wings please let his name be John Beck. Atleast when our line breaks down I know the guy is mobile.

Jay Cutler did fine with the receivers he had last year. That is if winning the division championship with a weak Oline in pass pro and an underachieving run game accounts for anything. The Bears have a franchise QB right now, you should be more concerned with the fact that we don't.

I also thought Ferrotte did pretty well a few years ago when he stepped in for Tavaris Jackson.

[Defensewins]

Originally Posted by NLC1054

Wasn't one of the things McNabb used to be renowned for is making a bunch of unknown and less than talented receivers look like star talent?

And that doesn't explain how Rex friggin' Grossman, with the same weapons, with the same bad o-line, with the same playcaller, was able to come in, after not playing for a year (whether he knew the offense or didn't) and was able to at least appear to play well and milk more production out of those weapons.

Jay Cutler had to learn a completely different offense, coming off a bad year, with a bad offensive line, and only one Pro Bowl receiver, and the other favorite target he had was benched by the offensive coordinator. He struggled at first, but over the course of the year, you saw that he was getting more and more comfortable with the offense.

Mike Martz molded his offense to things Jay was more comfortable doing, and Jay became more comfortable running Martz offense.

This notion that Donovan didn't have enough time in the offense is silly. We traded for him in April. He was at every OTA, every minicamp, had a whole training camp, two preseason games and thirteen regular season games to get a handle of the offense. Kyle added things he was more comfortable with and he still couldn't run it. He just wasn't a fit here, and was apparently a little hard-headed and wanted to do things his way.

The best offensive coordinator/quarterback relationships come from a willingness to work together. At some point, it became clear that there wasn't going to be a middle ground found between the two.

I am under no delusions that we are anywhere close to being a playoff team. Far friggin' from it. I think we're closer to being decent than we are from being cellar dwellers, but playoff teams are built, and we still have a lot of building to do.

And rather than getting upset about who leaked what, why not get upset by the fact that, instead of being interested in winning football games and being better, McNabb was more concerned with the fact that wearing an wristband would make him "look bad".

Why not get upset that he didn't practice hard? That he's the last guy on the practice field instead of the first? That he wasn't in the best condition?

I respect what McNabb has done in the past, and I think the organization had a hand in some of the shennigans that happened, but McNabb had more than his fair share to do with it. That's all anyone is saying.

The blame is shared.

Yes, when he has a good offensive line in front of him that can pass protect, something he did not have last year.
How long has Rex Grossman been in Kyle Shanhan's system? Grossman, who was with the Houston Texans with Kyle Shanahan in 2009 and came to Washington with him last year, is much more familiar with the system and the way the coordinator wants it executed.

How funny that you mention Cutler. He is exactly what I am talking about being given a second year to get used his new offense system. McNabb and Cutlers numbers are near identical their first year with the new team.

Culter in 2009 (first year with Chicago):
QB rating of 76.8, threw 26 interceptions and was sacked 35 times

Donovan in 2010:
QB rating 77.1, threw 15 interceptions and was sacked 37 times.

Kyle Shanahan emerges as a full-blown control freak | ProFootballTalk