Sex Abuse Scandal Rocks Penn State

[over the mountain]

http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2011...resentment.pdf

heres a link to the GJ findings, read the last couple pages and didnt see it.

criminal penalties for child rapists need to be greatly enhanced. guys are getting 2, 3 maybe 10 years for repeatedly raping a child . . . 80s it was a slap on the wrist, 2011 its better but not where it needs to be . .

[mlmpetert]

Originally Posted by over the mountain

http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2011...resentment.pdf

heres a link to the GJ findings, read the last couple pages and didnt see it.

criminal penalties for child rapists need to be greatly enhanced. guys are getting 2, 3 maybe 10 years for repeatedly raping a child . . . 80s it was a slap on the wrist, 2011 its better but not where it needs to be . .

Serisouly. And what kind of judge can let Sandusky out on 100k bond, in light of everything we know??? Even if its just to protect Sandusky from himself, whats the likelyhood that Sandusky isnt going to hurt or kill himself?

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by over the mountain

http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2011...resentment.pdf

heres a link to the GJ findings, read the last couple pages and didnt see it.

criminal penalties for child rapists need to be greatly enhanced. guys are getting 2, 3 maybe 10 years for repeatedly raping a child . . . 80s it was a slap on the wrist, 2011 its better but not where it needs to be . .

Sadly the punishment needs to remain life in prison. If you start giving child molesters the death penalty for child rape, then there's more incentive to kill the victim. But yeah you see these stories of convicted child molesters in their 30's and 40's that are free and you wonder how the hell they're out.

[djnemo65]

It's certainly been a devastating few days for the Penn State community. Like many Penn Staters I started out willing to give Paterno every possible benefit of the doubt, and I tried to do that. As more facts have come out it has become impossible to, even construing the facts in the light most favorable to Paterno, excuse his actions, to come up with any justification that holds water. He fell so short of the moral example the he seemed for so long to stand for that his firing was necessary, and he deserves the ignominy and the complete implosion of his entire legacy that will now follow. And once you take that step, once you realize that maybe this guy isn't what we all thought, the turn is swift and fierce. I've taken that step, but please understand that not all students and community members have. Humans are capable of engaging in extraordinary lengths of delusion when they really, really want to believe something. Religion is a good example of this. Rationalists like me scratch their heads as the world's religions compel seemingly sane people to do everything from the bizarre to the horrific. Penn State people are in a state of denial now, but I predict that as time goes on opinions will change, and when they do, once people take that step that I've taken, the retribution against Paterno will be ferocious. I predict that in ten years his likeness will have been entirely effaced from a campus in which you literally can't look in any direction without seeing his representation. That's my prediction and we'll see, but I would ask that you spare the student body your epithets and judgments. These are kids who just learned that there is no Santa Clause. They still aren't willing to accept that Paterno is culpable. That's not the same as supporting child molestation. I have faith in my community and think they'll come around.

To people on here wishing ruin, insolvency, and whatever else on my university and on people who had nothing to do with any of this, seriously, go to hell. People like Mooby, save your potshots. Penn State has never been known for being smart? Wrong, it is one of the most respected academic institutions in the country, that's just a fact. I go to Harvard now and I can honestly tell you that, at its best, Penn State comes close. And I appreciate it so much more as an institution, now that I've seen what true privilege looks like. I love being a public school kid who competes and wins against these coddled rich kids.

At its worst Penn State can be quite a bit worse than Harvard. We have a history of rioting (Michael Weinreb tries to make sense of the state of chaos in State College - Grantland), and not usually over things of great importance. We rioted once because we made it to the Sweet 16. And ESPN seemed interested only in interviewing besotted frat boys rather than those 40 thousand or so students who weren't in the Canyon last night.

Anyway that's all I got, peaceout.

[mredskins]

Originally Posted by djnemo65

It's certainly been a devastating few days for the Penn State community. Like many Penn Staters I started out willing to give Paterno every possible benefit of the doubt, and I tried to do that. As more facts have come out it has become impossible to, even construing the facts in the light most favorable to Paterno, excuse his actions, to come up with any justification that holds water. He fell so short of the moral example the he seemed for so long to stand for that his firing was necessary, and he deserves the ignominy and the complete implosion of his entire legacy that will now follow. And once you take that step, once you realize that maybe this guy isn't what we all thought, the turn is swift and fierce. I've taken that step, but please understand that not all students and community members have. Humans are capable of engaging in extraordinary lengths of delusion when they really, really want to believe something. Religion is a good example of this. Rationalists like me scratch their heads as the world's religions compel seemingly sane people to do everything from the bizarre to the horrific. Penn State people are in a state of denial now, but I predict that as time goes on opinions will change, and when they do, once people take that step that I've taken, the retribution against Paterno will be ferocious. I predict that in ten years his likeness will have been entirely effaced from a campus in which you literally can't look in any direction without seeing his representation. That's my prediction and we'll see, but I would ask that you spare the student body your epithets and judgments. These are kids who just learned that there is no Santa Clause. They still aren't willing to accept that Paterno is culpable. That's not the same as supporting child molestation. I have faith in my community and think they'll come around.

To people on here wishing ruin, insolvency, and whatever else on my university and on people who had nothing to do with any of this, seriously, go to hell. People like Mooby, save your potshots. Penn State has never been known for being smart? Wrong, it is one of the most respected academic institutions in the country, that's just a fact. I go to Harvard now and I can honestly tell you that, at its best, Penn State comes close. And I appreciate it so much more as an institution, now that I've seen what true privilege looks like. I love being a public school kid who competes and wins against these coddled rich kids.

At its worst Penn State can be quite a bit worse than Harvard. We have a history of rioting (Michael Weinreb tries to make sense of the state of chaos in State College - Grantland), and not usually over things of great importance. We rioted once because we made it to the Sweet 16. And ESPN seemed interested only in interviewing besotted frat boys rather than those 40 thousand or so students who weren't in the Canyon last night.

Anyway that's all I got, peaceout.

Great post and I agree to rake all PSU folks across the coals for this is crazy.

As far as Mooby's comments I don't think he meant any harm, I have two close family members that went there and I kind of think of it as a party school as well but I also know a lot of great minds are there as well. I think the general public's opinion of any large state school is that it is a party school.

I don't know the numbers but I am willing to bet more folks go there for a year or two party like crazy and drop out vs. those that actually graduate. that is a true statement probably for 90 percent of large state colleges.

[djnemo65]

Originally Posted by mredskins

Great post and I agree to rake all PSU folks across the coals for this is crazy.

As far as Mooby's comments I don't think he meant any harm, I have two close family members that went there and I kind of think of it as a party school as well but I also know a lot of great minds are there as well. I think the general public's opinion of any large state school is that it is a party school.

I don't know the numbers but I am willing to bet more folks go there for a year or two party like crazy and drop out vs. those that actually graduate. that is a true statement probably for 90 percent of large state colleges.

Absolutely true, although not at the main campus. There is a whole farm system of branch campuses that do not post very high graduation rates. People who make it straight to the main campus out of high school tend to be pretty good students though.

[mredskins]

Originally Posted by djnemo65

Absolutely true, although not at the main campus. There is a whole farm system of branch campuses that do not post very high graduation rates. People who make it straight to the main campus out of high school tend to be pretty good students though.

Really my sister went to Mount Alto for a year then main campus, she felt like the ones who came start from HS usually dropped out.

Honestly though and I am not trying to push your buttons I went school for Hotel Management (Cornell) and Penn State was like my fall back fall back school if all else fell through, like it was my complete safety net. Now that maybe totally untrue in other fields of study there but as far as hotel schools PSU was the easy one to get into.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by djnemo65

It's certainly been a devastating few days for the Penn State community. Like many Penn Staters I started out willing to give Paterno every possible benefit of the doubt, and I tried to do that. As more facts have come out it has become impossible to, even construing the facts in the light most favorable to Paterno, excuse his actions, to come up with any justification that holds water. He fell so short of the moral example the he seemed for so long to stand for that his firing was necessary, and he deserves the ignominy and the complete implosion of his entire legacy that will now follow. And once you take that step, once you realize that maybe this guy isn't what we all thought, the turn is swift and fierce. I've taken that step, but please understand that not all students and community members have. Humans are capable of engaging in extraordinary lengths of delusion when they really, really want to believe something. Religion is a good example of this. Rationalists like me scratch their heads as the world's religions compel seemingly sane people to do everything from the bizarre to the horrific. Penn State people are in a state of denial now, but I predict that as time goes on opinions will change, and when they do, once people take that step that I've taken, the retribution against Paterno will be ferocious. I predict that in ten years his likeness will have been entirely effaced from a campus in which you literally can't look in any direction without seeing his representation. That's my prediction and we'll see, but I would ask that you spare the student body your epithets and judgments. These are kids who just learned that there is no Santa Clause. They still aren't willing to accept that Paterno is culpable. That's not the same as supporting child molestation. I have faith in my community and think they'll come around.

To people on here wishing ruin, insolvency, and whatever else on my university and on people who had nothing to do with any of this, seriously, go to hell. People like Mooby, save your potshots. Penn State has never been known for being smart? Wrong, it is one of the most respected academic institutions in the country, that's just a fact. I go to Harvard now and I can honestly tell you that, at its best, Penn State comes close. And I appreciate it so much more as an institution, now that I've seen what true privilege looks like. I love being a public school kid who competes and wins against these coddled rich kids.

At its worst Penn State can be quite a bit worse than Harvard. We have a history of rioting (Michael Weinreb tries to make sense of the state of chaos in State College - Grantland), and not usually over things of great importance. We rioted once because we made it to the Sweet 16. And ESPN seemed interested only in interviewing besotted frat boys rather than those 40 thousand or so students who weren't in the Canyon last night.

Anyway that's all I got, peaceout.

Nice post, but to clarify there were several students who would only speak to ESPN (and I suspect others) off the record and off camera for fear of getting beat up for thinking the riots were ridiculous and Paterno should have been fired. So it wasn't for lack of trying or lack of interest that you didn't see those interviews. They were legitimately scared of what would happen to them.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by djnemo65

It's certainly been a devastating few days for the Penn State community. Like many Penn Staters I started out willing to give Paterno every possible benefit of the doubt, and I tried to do that. As more facts have come out it has become impossible to, even construing the facts in the light most favorable to Paterno, excuse his actions, to come up with any justification that holds water. He fell so short of the moral example the he seemed for so long to stand for that his firing was necessary, and he deserves the ignominy and the complete implosion of his entire legacy that will now follow. And once you take that step, once you realize that maybe this guy isn't what we all thought, the turn is swift and fierce. I've taken that step, but please understand that not all students and community members have. Humans are capable of engaging in extraordinary lengths of delusion when they really, really want to believe something. Religion is a good example of this. Rationalists like me scratch their heads as the world's religions compel seemingly sane people to do everything from the bizarre to the horrific. Penn State people are in a state of denial now, but I predict that as time goes on opinions will change, and when they do, once people take that step that I've taken, the retribution against Paterno will be ferocious. I predict that in ten years his likeness will have been entirely effaced from a campus in which you literally can't look in any direction without seeing his representation. That's my prediction and we'll see, but I would ask that you spare the student body your epithets and judgments. These are kids who just learned that there is no Santa Clause. They still aren't willing to accept that Paterno is culpable. That's not the same as supporting child molestation. I have faith in my community and think they'll come around.

To people on here wishing ruin, insolvency, and whatever else on my university and on people who had nothing to do with any of this, seriously, go to hell. People like Mooby, save your potshots. Penn State has never been known for being smart? Wrong, it is one of the most respected academic institutions in the country, that's just a fact. I go to Harvard now and I can honestly tell you that, at its best, Penn State comes close. And I appreciate it so much more as an institution, now that I've seen what true privilege looks like. I love being a public school kid who competes and wins against these coddled rich kids.

At its worst Penn State can be quite a bit worse than Harvard. We have a history of rioting (Michael Weinreb tries to make sense of the state of chaos in State College - Grantland), and not usually over things of great importance. We rioted once because we made it to the Sweet 16. And ESPN seemed interested only in interviewing besotted frat boys rather than those 40 thousand or so students who weren't in the Canyon last night.

Anyway that's all I got, peaceout.

Good post, Nemo. I would say most good state universities, at their best, come close to Harvard. And by their best, I mean those respective schools' brighest minds.

I do agree with what you're saying for the most part, especially about those people who are wishing that the entire university fall to pieces. That's a totally ignorant thing to say- hoping innocent people lose their jobs and educations.

One thing I'm not ready to do is to give the rioting students a pass. I'm not saying that their doing so is advocating child abuse, but they should know better. It's not like Paterno is getting railroaded here. He was implicit in the cover-up and protection of a man who committed some of the most heinous acts imaginable. So yeah, he got fired. WTF are they rioting about?

I know it's your alma mater so it hits hard. If this was going on at the University of Florida, I'd be devastated. But I don't think those rioting students should be spared from any sort of criticism, judgement, or prosecution for that matter. They may represent a minority as far as the student body, but they're stupid.

[djnemo65]

Originally Posted by GMScud

Good post, Nemo. I would say most good state universities, at their best, come close to Harvard. And by their best, I mean those respective schools' brighest minds.

I do agree with what you're saying for the most part, especially about those people who are wishing that the entire university fall to pieces. That's a totally ignorant thing to say- hoping innocent people lose their jobs and educations.

One thing I'm not ready to do is to give the rioting students a pass. I'm not saying that their doing so is advocating child abuse, but they should know better. It's not like Paterno is getting railroaded here. He was implicit in the cover-up and protection of a man who committed some of the most heinous acts imaginable. So yeah, he got fired. WTF are they rioting about?

I know it's your alma mater so it hits hard. If this was going on at the University of Florida, I'd be devastated. But I don't think those rioting students should be spared from any sort of criticism, judgement, or prosecution for that matter. They may represent a minority as far as the student body, but they're stupid.

Well that's a compelling take which I respect, thanks for being even-handed

[SmootSmack]

Could the university actually fall apart though? I mean even before all this the state government was considering cutting subsidies to PSU, for economic reasons. If they cut subsidies, if the DOE gets involved and levies fines or whatever, if there are millions of dollars in civil suits, if the application rate drops significantly...could that effectively destroy the university. Not just the football team, but the whole university

I can tell you there are already advertisers who are demanding to have their ads pulled from any game involving Penn State.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Could the university actually fall apart though? I mean even before all this the state government was considering cutting subsidies to PSU, for economic reasons. If they cut subsidies, if the DOE gets involved and levies fines or whatever, if there are millions of dollars in civil suits, if the application rate drops significantly...could that effectively destroy the university. Not just the football team, but the whole university

I can tell you there are already advertisers who are demanding to have their ads pulled from any game involving Penn State.

Man, that would really be sad. Certainly the best case scenario right now seems to be that the football team is a bottom feeder in the Big 10 for years to come, other athletic programs fall victim to budget cuts, and maybe certain schools/departments within the university are contracted. Once all the lawsuits get rolling, it's going to be devastating.

I heard they have a $2B endowment. They better get ready to open that wallet big time.

[NC_Skins]

Great post djnemo65!

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Could the university actually fall apart though? I mean even before all this the state government was considering cutting subsidies to PSU, for economic reasons. If they cut subsidies, if the DOE gets involved and levies fines or whatever, if there are millions of dollars in civil suits, if the application rate drops significantly...could that effectively destroy the university. Not just the football team, but the whole university

I can tell you there are already advertisers who are demanding to have their ads pulled from any game involving Penn State.

I'm not surprised by any of this. Look at most of the scandals and you notice a mass exodus of advertisers when the shit hits the fan. (Tiger, Kobe) Not to mention something as horrific as child molestation and on a large scale. They very well may never recover from this. I find it ironic that these guys sold their soul and kept quiet to protect the school may very well have sealed its fate.


Also, I doubt the Penn State board of trustees is finished with the firings.

Firings not over at Penn State: Sports expert - CBS News

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Could the university actually fall apart though? I mean even before all this the state government was considering cutting subsidies to PSU, for economic reasons. If they cut subsidies, if the DOE gets involved and levies fines or whatever, if there are millions of dollars in civil suits, if the application rate drops significantly...could that effectively destroy the university. Not just the football team, but the whole university

I can tell you there are already advertisers who are demanding to have their ads pulled from any game involving Penn State.

I think it would take a lot for a university to fall apart. Also, I am sure the state economy would take a hit if that were to happen to PSU. State appropriations only count for about 8 to 9% of PSU's revenues.

Now, what will happen is that PSU's prestige will take a huge dive (and in higher ed that's big, hence USNWR rankings). PSU may get less applicants or less talented applicants and they will need to admit more students in order to get their tuition/fees revenues. At this point, the PA governor has already signed the budget, but next year during the budget cut debates they will find it hard to fight the budget cuts as they did this year.

[Ruhskins]

Hidden in this long article in the Chronicle of Higher Education is this:


"Neither Mr. Spanier nor Mr. Paterno had been charged with breaking any laws in connection with the sex-abuse allegations, but the egregious nature of the charges brought against a former Nittany Lions' defensive coordinator, Jerry Sandusky, fueled public anger about the lack of action taken by university officials and led trustees to promise, and make, swift decisions. Calls for Mr. Spanier's ouster, in particular, had begun to swell as the week wore on, with hundreds of students chanting for his removal outside the university's main administrative building on Tuesday night."

Penn State Trustees Fire President and Legendary Coach - Leadership & Governance - The Chronicle of Higher Education

This is ridiculous, so these stupid PSU students turn the blind eye to Paterno b/c he's the football coach? I am glad both got fired as I've stated earlier, and as Kirk Herbstreet said on ESPN, this is bigger than football and people at PSU need to realize that.