Some optimism on the 'Shanaplan'

[The Goat]

...and the defense is (still) far from being finished. Getting a dominant NT to make the 3-4 work isn't an easy task by any stretch of the imagination.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by The Goat

...and the defense is (still) far from being finished. Getting a dominant NT to make the 3-4 work isn't an easy task by any stretch of the imagination.

I think if everyone comes back healthy then we are set on DL. But we need quality back ups I'll admit that. Cofield has been better then I expected, getting Jenkins back next year will only cause problems for defenses along with Kerrigan and Orakpo.

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

I think if everyone comes back healthy then we are set on DL. But we need quality back ups I'll admit that. Cofield has been better then I expected, getting Jenkins back next year will only cause problems for defenses along with Kerrigan and Orakpo.

Cofield is ok at best. We're not gonna be anything like Green Bay, Baltimore, Pitt or Houstan (under Wade) w/o a dominant NT. Why make the massive investment to a 3-4 if not to become elite (coming from a top 10 4-3)?

...I still haven't seen a solid argument for Mike's two biggest decisions: defense and QB.

[SirClintonPortis]

Originally Posted by The Goat

Cofield is ok at best. We're not gonna be anything like Green Bay, Baltimore, Pitt or Houstan (under Wade) w/o a dominant NT. Why make the massive investment to a 3-4 if not to become elite (coming from a top 10 4-3)?

...I still haven't seen a solid argument for Mike's two biggest decisions: defense and QB.

I don't like stats too much, but our performance on D is actually not that bad this season, at least in the stats.

We are giving up the 11th fewest points points per game at 20.5pts/G, which is actually slightly under the 21 points per game in 2009.

We are also giving up 17.6 1st downs a game this season. In 2009, we gave up 17.5 1st downs a game.

Our 3rd down percentage this season is 37%, which is lower than the defense's 40% 3rd down percentage in 2009.

So, some of our stats are back to levels similar to the 2009 levels.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by SirClintonPortis

I don't like stats too much, but our performance on D is actually not that bad this season, at least in the stats.

We are giving up the 11th fewest points points per game at 20.5pts/G, which is actually slightly under the 21 points per game in 2009.

We are also giving up 17.6 1st downs a game this season. In 2009, we gave up 17.5 1st downs a game.

Our 3rd down percentage this season is 37%, which is lower than the defense's 40% 3rd down percentage in 2009.

So, some of our stats are back to levels similar to the 2009 levels.

It's close, but I'd take the current defense over the 2009 defense. The fundamental problems are similar (can't get off the field), but the pass defense is unquestionably better now, and that makes the ability to limit points much more sustainable. It's a positive change that we don't totally crap the bed anymore when facing an NFC East opponent because you haven't made an adjustment since 1977.

Neither would qualify as a great defense, and neither was capable of carrying even an average offense to the playoffs. The offense still has to get better. I think The Goat's point about the opportunity cost of switching things up on defense is fair though I don't know if anything except a huge decline would have been achieved if we simply focused on nothing but offense.

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

It's close, but I'd take the current defense over the 2009 defense. The fundamental problems are similar (can't get off the field), but the pass defense is unquestionably better now, and that makes the ability to limit points much more sustainable. It's a positive change that we don't totally crap the bed anymore when facing an NFC East opponent because you haven't made an adjustment since 1977.

Neither would qualify as a great defense, and neither was capable of carrying even an average offense to the playoffs. The offense still has to get better. I think The Goat's point about the opportunity cost of switching things up on defense is fair though I don't know if anything except a huge decline would have been achieved if we simply focused on nothing but offense.

I didn't mean to imply we would have completely neglected defense GTripp but I see how it read that way...I tend to skip over points when I try writing down my thoughts.

I think Rak would have been our LDE, Carter RDE and added a DT. Of course I've assuming AH is still contributing something because the offense is built around him (re-closing can of worms now). We could have spent, say, half the total number of picks/FAs on defense had we stayed in the 4-3 and likely be better than we are today because this defense isn't going to dominate w/o a real NT.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by The Goat

I didn't mean to imply we would have completely neglected defense GTripp but I see how it read that way...I tend to skip over points when I try writing down my thoughts.

I think Rak would have been our LDE, Carter RDE and added a DT. Of course I've assuming AH is still contributing something because the offense is built around him (re-closing can of worms now). We could have spent, say, half the total number of picks/FAs on defense had we stayed in the 4-3 and likely be better than we are today because this defense isn't going to dominate w/o a real NT.

No, this is my bad. I implied, but did not write, that the reason I thought the Redskins defensed declined and then came back to 2009 ish talent levels is because the Redskins didn't add anything to it last year. Which is to say that 3-4/4-3 is a lot of window dressing, but the defense was going to get changed one way or another, and there wasn't exactly a coordinator out there similar to Greg Blache nor should we have hired him if there was.

But if you change your defensive identity and then don't add any talent to it and then you have a public spat with your highest profile player, you're destined to have a pretty disappointing year on defense. And I don't entirely believe Mike Shanahan or Jim Haslett should take the blame for the decline from 2009. We didn't have anything to build off of on that side of the ball beyond the years that Fletcher, Carter, and Orakpo had and the huge contracts to Hall and Haynesworth.

Anyway, it's moot now because Brian Orakpo is never going to be a three down defensive end in this league. He's a linebacker in any scheme on a rushing down, and then he puts his hand in the dirt on third down. Or we could keep playing what we are now, and keep getting the quarterback on the ground on early downs. I like that a lot better.