Tom "Iceman" Brady

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by GiantsSuck703

Ignore the defense? Do the patriots have a player with the abilities of Dwight Freeney? Dont the Colts have Bob Sanders,Cato June,Booger Mcfarland, and Robert Mathis on there defense? Why would i ignore Special teams? didnt they have one of the best kickers of his time in Mike Vanderjagt? and now they have Vinatieri. And Terrence Wilkins is one of the best kick returners in the league. Any way you look at it, Peyton has always lined up with more talent than Tom Brady and Tom has still won more important games than Peyton, look you can have Peyton, but if Im starting a team I choose to go with the guy who has three superbowl rings and will not cost me 100 million dollars

Well, if you bring contract size into it, you may very well have an arguement. One could potentially attribute the Colts inability to have a consistent defensive threat to keep them in games to the fact that Manning's contract is so freakin massive.

But if so, I'm confused as to why you open your post by listing some talented players from the Colts' D. Whats your arguement? That the Colts have and have had a better defensive unit than the Patriots? On what basis?

FRPLG hits this one directly on the head. If you take Manning off the Colts, you have a really piss poor football team. If you take Brady off the Patriots, the team gets significantly worse but only probably to a 8-8 maybe 7-9 level. This of course implys that a replacement level backup (i.e crappy) would take the reins in both situations.

If the question was which quarterback has had the more fufilling career, the answer is Brady. If the question was which quarterback has ultimately been more successful, the answer is Brady. Citing three championships would be a great defense for both of those positions. But if you are trying to answer the simple questions "Which guy is the best?" or "Which one should I take on my team?", you have to look beyond rings to who actually gives his team the best chance to win. 3 rings does crap for Brady going foward. You think Robert Mathis will have Brady wrapped up this week for a sack, only let him go on the context that the guys a three time champion? Not likely.

From a philosophical point of view, I think the whole idea of "winning a ring" is BS anyway. Stay with me. Football is a team game. The players and coaches win and lose as a team. A ring is very much an individual award, and to me thats a crappy way to represent a team achievement. The Lombardi Trophy is the most soughtafter trophy in sports. It is awarded to the team who wins the NFL Championship each year. It's a team award given for team achievement. Playing for a ring is, at its core, a rather selfish thing to strive for. In effect, you are exerting effort for personal gain, instead of that of the team. Playing for a championship, and playing for a trophy for your team is completely selfless. If you are wondering, this is a very key reason why I put no value into how many "rings" a guy has.

I know that there is little distinction between the two because they come as a package, but the ring would be completely worthless if it didn't represent team achievement, so to use it as an arguement for individual achivement is downright silly.

[ncskinsfanec]

Originally Posted by wilsowilso

The guy just led his team to another Super Bowl win IMO. He is a freak of nature. Anyone wanna bet who wins next week between Indy and NE. I will say San Diego handed that game away with some pitiful turnovers, but Brady made them pay. Bye the way having a rookie quarterback start for you in the playoffs is a recipe for going home no matter how good your team may be. New England is mostly no names with a few great players and the sickest QB I've ever seen play.

I was hoping they'd fall today, but they are absolutely incredible in the clutch, especially Mr. Brady. They also had some unbelievable breaks as well, they couldn't have had any better luck, quite frankly. I think the Colts will beat them next week, but you never know with the Patriots. I guess we'll find out next weekend.

[Daseal]

I used to like the Chargers. Love their draft every year. SOmething about Merriman pisses me off and I actually wanted NE to win for the first time in about 6 years.

[dblanch66]

Indy wins this year, though.

[Daseal]

I figured it out, it's that really stupid 'dance' he does.

[Hail2theskins]

you honestly think brady is a better quartback than dan marino because marino doesnt have a ring?

[wilsowilso]

Originally Posted by Hail2theskins

you honestly think brady is a better quartback than dan marino because marino doesnt have a ring?

You honestly think Dan Marino is a better quarterback because of his stats?

[Redskinhog1963]

Originally Posted by wilsowilso

You honestly think Dan Marino is a better quarterback because of his stats?

marino had the big numbers because the dolphins never had a running game when he was there.marinio was a good qb,and sure hall of famer,but i would take favre,brady,warner,and a couple other qbs over marino any day!

[Hail2theskins]

When Tom brady does any of this... all of dan marino's records, ill say he is better, until then, not a damn chance.

• Most Attempts, Career: 8,358[8]
• Most Completions, Career: 4,967[9] (broken by Brett Favre in 2006)
• Most Yards Passing, Career: 61,361[10]
• Most Touchdown Passes, Career: 420[11]
• Most Passing Yards, Season: 5,084 in 1984[10]
• Most Touchdown Passes, Season: 48[11] (since broken by Peyton Manning 49)
• Most Games, 400 or more Yards Passing, Season: 4 in 1984
• Most Games, 300 or more Yards Passing, Career: 60
• Most Seasons, 3,000 or more Yards Passing: 13 (1984-92, 1994-95, 1997-98) (since broken by Brett Favre 15)
• Most Consecutive Seasons, 3,000 or more Yards Passing: 9 (1984-92) (since broken by Brett Favre 15)
• Most Games, Four or more Touchdown Passes, Career: 21
• Most Games, Four or more Touchdown Passes, Season: 6 in 1984
• Lowest Percentage, Passes Intercepted, Rookie Season: 2.03 in 1983 (296-6)
• Most Seasons Leading League, Attempts: 5 (1984, 1986, 1988, 1992, 1997)[8]
• Most Seasons Leading League, Completions: 6 (1984-86, 1988, 1992, 1997)[9]
• Most Seasons, 40 or more Touchdown Passes: 2 (1984, 1986)[11]
• 100 TD Passes in Fewest Amount of Games to Start Career: 44 (9/7/86 at San Diego)
• 200 TD passes in Fewest Amount of Games to Start Career: 89 (9/17/89 at New England)
• 300 TD passes in Fewest Amount of Games to Start Career: 157 (9/4/94 vs. New England)
• Most Points scored, QB: 2574
• Highest TD-INT differential: +168

[jdlea]

Originally Posted by Hail2theskins

When Tom brady does any of this... all of dan marino's records, ill say he is better, until then, not a damn chance.

• Most Attempts, Career: 8,358[8]
• Most Completions, Career: 4,967[9] (broken by Brett Favre in 2006)
• Most Yards Passing, Career: 61,361[10]
• Most Touchdown Passes, Career: 420[11]
• Most Passing Yards, Season: 5,084 in 1984[10]
• Most Touchdown Passes, Season: 48[11] (since broken by Peyton Manning 49)
• Most Games, 400 or more Yards Passing, Season: 4 in 1984
• Most Games, 300 or more Yards Passing, Career: 60
• Most Seasons, 3,000 or more Yards Passing: 13 (1984-92, 1994-95, 1997-98) (since broken by Brett Favre 15)
• Most Consecutive Seasons, 3,000 or more Yards Passing: 9 (1984-92) (since broken by Brett Favre 15)
• Most Games, Four or more Touchdown Passes, Career: 21
• Most Games, Four or more Touchdown Passes, Season: 6 in 1984
• Lowest Percentage, Passes Intercepted, Rookie Season: 2.03 in 1983 (296-6)
• Most Seasons Leading League, Attempts: 5 (1984, 1986, 1988, 1992, 1997)[8]
• Most Seasons Leading League, Completions: 6 (1984-86, 1988, 1992, 1997)[9]
• Most Seasons, 40 or more Touchdown Passes: 2 (1984, 1986)[11]
• 100 TD Passes in Fewest Amount of Games to Start Career: 44 (9/7/86 at San Diego)
• 200 TD passes in Fewest Amount of Games to Start Career: 89 (9/17/89 at New England)
• 300 TD passes in Fewest Amount of Games to Start Career: 157 (9/4/94 vs. New England)
• Most Points scored, QB: 2574
• Highest TD-INT differential: +168

I'm not trying to take anything away from Dan Marino, but I'm not playing fantasy football. If I'm the owner of a team, I'm taking Tom Brady. Tom is the one wearing 3 Super Bowl rings. I'm not gonna sit here and say that no one else could have done it with the team he has around him, but Peyton routinely wastes the talent around him, so you have to give Brady a ton of credit. I'm goin with 3 wins, not a whole bunch of passing records. I'll acknowledge that Marino is a better passer, but Brady is the better quarterback because that takes so much more.

[wolfeskins]

Originally Posted by jdlea

I'm not trying to take anything away from Dan Marino, but I'm not playing fantasy football. If I'm the owner of a team, I'm taking Tom Brady. Tom is the one wearing 3 Super Bowl rings. I'm not gonna sit here and say that no one else could have done it with the team he has around him, but Peyton routinely wastes the talent around him, so you have to give Brady a ton of credit. I'm goin with 3 wins, not a whole bunch of passing records. I'll acknowledge that Marino is a better passer, but Brady is the better quarterback because that takes so much more.

i agree with you 100%. marino and peyton are very good qbs, they are great PASSERS, all they do is pass,pass pass. peyton will probably break marinos PASSING records and that truly is a huge accomplishment but if i'm in the championship game and i can have my pick from marino,manning and brady, i'm taking brady.
now having said all that, peyton manning could take his game to the next level next weekend and i will be rooting for him. i'm a fan of peyton and would love to see him win a superbowl but until he does brady will remain better than him when the big games are on the line.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by jdlea

I'll acknowledge that Marino is a better passer, but Brady is the better quarterback because that takes so much more.

Huh? The main job of a quarterback is to pass. If he doesn't pass, he runs. Surely the reason Brady is better than Marino in your opinion isn't because he's a deadly runner. So if Marino is the better passer, why on earth would Brady be the better QB?

[wilsowilso]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Huh? The main job of a quarterback is to pass. If he doesn't pass, he runs. Surely the reason Brady is better than Marino in your opinion isn't because he's a deadly runner. So if Marino is the better passer, why on earth would Brady be the better QB?

I don't know what kind of team you are coaching? The job of the quarterback is to lead. To lead his team to victory. Marino was of course a better passer, but no way was he a better leader. In fact he wasn't even close to Brady.

[jdlea]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Huh? The main job of a quarterback is to pass. If he doesn't pass, he runs. Surely the reason Brady is better than Marino in your opinion isn't because he's a deadly runner. So if Marino is the better passer, why on earth would Brady be the better QB?

Because his main job is to throw the football yes, but he also has to lead his team. Brady is a great leader and, in turn, is a great winner. I'd rather go into a fourth quarter with Brady at QB than anyone else in football right now. I'd take him over Peyton because I know when the game's on the line, he's gonna produce. He's not gonna let the bright lights of the playoffs stun him and he's gonna lead his team. That's what a quarterback is, a lot more than a passer. To quote Al Pacino, "it's the top spot kid. It's the guy who gets the credit and it's the guy who takes the blame. And the other guys on your team will break their noses and their ribs and their necks for you...once they understand you." That's what Brady is. He has guys who believe and he makes em believe with 4th quarters like yesterday...playing quarterback is about a whole lot more than passing.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by Hail2theskins

When Tom brady does any of this... all of dan marino's records, ill say he is better, until then, not a damn chance.

• Most Attempts, Career: 8,358[8]
• Most Completions, Career: 4,967[9] (broken by Brett Favre in 2006)
• Most Yards Passing, Career: 61,361[10]
• Most Touchdown Passes, Career: 420[11]
• Most Passing Yards, Season: 5,084 in 1984[10]
• Most Touchdown Passes, Season: 48[11] (since broken by Peyton Manning 49)
• Most Games, 400 or more Yards Passing, Season: 4 in 1984
• Most Games, 300 or more Yards Passing, Career: 60
• Most Seasons, 3,000 or more Yards Passing: 13 (1984-92, 1994-95, 1997-98) (since broken by Brett Favre 15)
• Most Consecutive Seasons, 3,000 or more Yards Passing: 9 (1984-92) (since broken by Brett Favre 15)
• Most Games, Four or more Touchdown Passes, Career: 21
• Most Games, Four or more Touchdown Passes, Season: 6 in 1984
• Lowest Percentage, Passes Intercepted, Rookie Season: 2.03 in 1983 (296-6)
• Most Seasons Leading League, Attempts: 5 (1984, 1986, 1988, 1992, 1997)[8]
• Most Seasons Leading League, Completions: 6 (1984-86, 1988, 1992, 1997)[9]
• Most Seasons, 40 or more Touchdown Passes: 2 (1984, 1986)[11]
• 100 TD Passes in Fewest Amount of Games to Start Career: 44 (9/7/86 at San Diego)
• 200 TD passes in Fewest Amount of Games to Start Career: 89 (9/17/89 at New England)
• 300 TD passes in Fewest Amount of Games to Start Career: 157 (9/4/94 vs. New England)
• Most Points scored, QB: 2574
• Highest TD-INT differential: +168

Ask a Dolphins fan if they would want Marino's state or Brady's SB wins. I bet about 99% pick the SB wins.