The case against Cowher

[skinsnut]

My gut feeling is that Cowher sits out another year (his daughter is in high school 1 more year in Raleigh, NC)....then Fox screws up again with the Panthers and Cowher takes the Panthers job in 09.

The only other coach out there that will completely change a team is Marty Shottenheimer.....and you KNOW he aint coaching here again.

I still say odds are 90% Coach Williams is our man.
Turnover risks are just to high otherwise....especially with Saunders

[freddyg12]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

The biggest argument against bringing in Cowher is based around the salary cap. Consider this:

1) The Redskins are currently over the cap by $20 million, which is a straw man number of course. They've got the ability to restructure contracts and get about $10-15 million under the cap before free agency and the draft. That should give a new guy like Cowher good flexibility to get a few guys he likes in free agency. But not too many. He can't do what Gibbs did in 2004 and bring in a slew of guys (Griffin, Washington, Portis, Brunell, Daniels, Springs, Moss). In other words, Cowher's going to be forced to work mostly with what he has, which leads me to my next point...

2) Cowher has traditionally fielded a very large and physical offensive line. Our current group is not exceptionally large (more middle of the road, even on the smaller side). We're an athletic line, a la Al Saunders, as opposed to huge mashers. If Cowher wants to change out the offensive line, he can't. We can't gain any cap relief from the Jon Jansen contract until 2010. We can't gain cap relief from the Randy Thomas contract until 2011. And we can't gain cap relief from the Samuels contract until 2009. I personally don't understand why you'd ever want to get rid of those guys, even if you like bigger linemen. But the point remains, Cowher would be stuck with them.

3) Defensively, Cowher runs a 3-4. Given the points I made in number (1) above, Cowher can't just go bringing in the LBs we'd need to run his 3-4. Or maybe he'd play Andre Carter at the rush LB spot? And I'm not sure Griffin or Montgomery are suited to be the anchor you need in the middle of a 3-man line. He probably needs a big NT like Vince Wilfork. But the main point; given that the Redskins need to restructure a bunch of deals this year just to get under the cap and shed that $20 million we're currently over by, this will kick more of the cap hit into the future for those players. In 2009 and 2010, the Skins may find it even tougher to get under the cap, and may be even more restrained in free agency.

In summation, if Cowher wants to change out the personnel to fit his traditional style of play, it's going to take 3 or 4 years to do it. He won't have the flexibility in free agency to change the makeup of the team. He can't shed some of the big contracts for another few years. He'll have to do it through the draft. Or, instead of trying to change the team to fit his system, he could try to change his system to fit his team. But it seems like Gregg Williams would be better suited for that, after all, he and Saunders already have the system that fits the team best.

The Redskins do not have the cap flexibility to change the team every four years. Snyder has made a financial committment to a number of vets through the restructuring of contracts. He's showing a tendency towards keeping players together for the long haul; but if he brings in a new coach who tries to fit those round players into square holes, it will be a disaster. There's only one choice for the team given the salary cap picture: Gregg Williams.

thorough post Schneed. It seems obvious to us, but Snyder is a salesman & marketer. If anybody could convince Cowher that it's a good fit, it would be him (and $10mil a year helps a lot!). Cowher might come to an interview w/his agent well prepared to ask all relevant questions about the cap & personel, yet Snyder & co. might be better prepared to spin the situation.

Sadly, all the reasons you list for Cowher not being a good fit here, point to two reasons that he would take the job:
1) $$
2) challenge

Given the circumstances, he might be interested if & only if he's the highest paid guy in the league, or to be more cynical, he might just be interested in a big payday at this point of his career. To justify taking the job, he can convince himself that it's a "challenge" that he's never faced before.

I surely hope the Danny is just being coy about this & putting up a front for the nfl to show he's taking the process seriously, and that he's going to give GW an honest chance to convince him. At this point who can predict what Snyder will do?

[BleedBurgundy]

Isn't Cowher a very similar coach to Joe Gibbs? Obviously, the score is 3-1 but there are some stylistic similarities.

They both champion a run oriented, ball control offense with an extreme emphasis on limiting turn overs. Both are considered conservative play callers, almost to a fault. Lastly, both are excellent motivators. Cowher was universally loved by his team, until his final year when he and Roethlisberger were at odds.While I do think that GWilliams is the best choice, I do not believe that Cowher will be a drastic change.

One thing I will say is that I do not see a very strong cost vs. benefit ratio to Cowher. What is it going to take to get him out of retirement, $8 million per? If the man isn't motivated to coach by anything more than dollar signs, do we really want him? I could be wrong, but I think GWill would be the better value. That may not even be a concern since coaches' salaries are outside of the cap and Dan isn't exactly hurting financially.

GW, in my opinion, has got to be chomping at the bit so to speak for this opportunity. He pretty much ego'd (sorry matty) his way out of Buffalo and hasn't really been in the mix for any HC jobs since. This is his shot at redemption and that is a much better motivator than money.

Another argument that has been made in GW's favor is the fact that the players are behind him. That may be, but I don't think it would take more than a few days for the team to come to terms with playing for a coach with a super bowl win on his resume. At the end of the day, players just want to win and BC has proven he can do that.

I think that while I would prefer Grilliams, I would be OK with BC as an alternate.

[redsk1]

Cowher won't coach here b/c of the FO structure. He is a Marty guy and guess what Marty left b/c of lack of control. I don't think it will happen. FWIW i think Cowher is a great coach. It's not easy to get in the playoffs virtually every year.

I hope we don't bring in a college coach...PLEASE NO. Pete Carroll included. I don't know if anyone remembers it, but PC didn't do to well in the NFL the first time. I'm not against 2nd chances but please no college coaches.

My only vote is for GW.

[irish]

Originally Posted by BleedBurgundy

Isn't Cowher a very similar coach to Joe Gibbs? Obviously, the score is 3-1 but there are some stylistic similarities.

They both champion a run oriented, ball control offense with an extreme emphasis on limiting turn overs. Both are considered conservative play callers, almost to a fault. Lastly, both are excellent motivators. Cowher was universally loved by his team, until his final year when he and Roethlisberger were at odds.While I do think that GWilliams is the best choice, I do not believe that Cowher will be a drastic change.

One thing I will say is that I do not see a very strong cost vs. benefit ratio to Cowher. What is it going to take to get him out of retirement, $8 million per? If the man isn't motivated to coach by anything more than dollar signs, do we really want him? I could be wrong, but I think GWill would be the better value. That may not even be a concern since coaches' salaries are outside of the cap and Dan isn't exactly hurting financially.

GW, in my opinion, has got to be chomping at the bit so to speak for this opportunity. He pretty much ego'd (sorry matty) his way out of Buffalo and hasn't really been in the mix for any HC jobs since. This is his shot at redemption and that is a much better motivator than money.

Another argument that has been made in GW's favor is the fact that the players are behind him. That may be, but I don't think it would take more than a few days for the team to come to terms with playing for a coach with a super bowl win on his resume. At the end of the day, players just want to win and BC has proven he can do that.

I think that while I would prefer Grilliams, I would be OK with BC as an alternate.

Cowher was not universally loved by the team. He was being tuned out by most in his next to last season and in his last season it was Bettis, not Cowher, that everyone listened to.

BTW, Too is not the same as to.

[BleedBurgundy]

Originally Posted by irish

Cowher was not universally loved by the team. He was being tuned out by most in his next to last season and in his last season it was Bettis, not Cowher, that everyone listened to.

BTW, Too is not the same as to.

The only issue I have heard at all was about Roethlisberger not thinking Cowher was opening up the offense for him. I don't buy that "everyone was listening to Bettis" nonsense. Bettis was a running back, not a coach. To suggest otherwise is not logical.

and regarding "too=to" you're missing the whole point.

[VTSkins897]

i think you guys have hit it. i really do not want to see a new staff come in here. so you pay cowher $10M/year?

i think it'd be really easy to take three years, get us nowhere, and be $30M richer as we go into yet another rebuilding stage.

obviously i'll cheer for whatever happens, but we really need to keep our current coaches and players around for the most part. at least give them two years.

[irish]

Originally Posted by BleedBurgundy

The only issue I have heard at all was about Roethlisberger not thinking Cowher was opening up the offense for him. I don't buy that "everyone was listening to Bettis" nonsense. Bettis was a running back, not a coach. To suggest otherwise is not logical.

and regarding "too=to" you're missing the whole point.

I am only telling you what my Pgh connections told me. Bettis was the motivator and person the team rallied around, not Cowher.

[BleedBurgundy]

Originally Posted by irish

I am only telling you what my Pgh connections told me. Bettis was the motivator and person the team rallied around, not Cowher.

I'm not calling you a liar, I just think alot of that came after the fact. I do believe that Bettis probably did have a big leadership role for a player on the team. That said, you can't take the HC's credit away for a super bowl winning season and say it was due to a running back's locker room influence. My opinion.

[irish]

Originally Posted by BleedBurgundy

I'm not calling you a liar, I just think alot of that came after the fact. I do believe that Bettis probably did have a big leadership role for a player on the team. That said, you can't take the HC's credit away for a super bowl winning season and say it was due to a running back's locker room influence. My opinion.

I was being told that stuff after the first playoff game not after the Super Bowl win. I think Cowher did a good job with all the football stuff but his style grates on players and eventually they just get sick of it and tune him out.

[BleedBurgundy]

I agree. Not sure where I heard it ( i think it was on the barber shop on Sirius) but I think Ronde Barber was talking about limitations on how long a coach can be effective. There's only so long you can hear the same thing over and over before you start tuning it out. That's human nature. I'm sure it applies to just about any coach.

[freddyg12]

Originally Posted by redsk1

Cowher won't coach here b/c of the FO structure. He is a Marty guy and guess what Marty left b/c of lack of control. I don't think it will happen. FWIW i think Cowher is a great coach. It's not easy to get in the playoffs virtually every year.

I hope we don't bring in a college coach...PLEASE NO. Pete Carroll included. I don't know if anyone remembers it, but PC didn't do to well in the NFL the first time. I'm not against 2nd chances but please no college coaches.

My only vote is for GW.

Just to make my opinion clear again, I want GW as head coach.

However, I do fear the Danny's courting Cowher. You use Marty as an example, but remember that Marty said he'd "never" work for Snyder, then lo & behold he's in skins gear.

Cowher might want total control, but that doesn't mean he can't be sold on the idea of working in the committee w/Dan & Vinny on personel.

While I agree w/most assessments here about the fo structure, players, cap & how Cowher wouldn't be a good fit, I think you have to at least concede that if the Danny has Cowher in mind, he'll do whatever he can to get him here. That scares me & I hope he thinks it through enough to realize that Gibbs has built a foundation that could easily crumble if you bring in the wrong guy, or for that matter bringing in anyone rather than hiring GW.

[Coff]

Personally I would rather the Redskins hire GW, and while there may be some speculation as to who truly deserves the credit for the Steeler's Super Bowl victory, I think we're downplaying Cowher's accomplishments as a head coach. We can critize him for hanging on to Stewart too long, among other things, but to suggest that he has been anything but a consistent winner over the course of his career is simply incorrect. There have been comments made that suggest winning the Super Bowl was the only thing he's ever done. In his 15 seasons of head coaching, he won 8 division championships and 2 conference championships. He took his team to the Conference championship SIX times in 15 seasons. That's more times than Gibbs, Belichick and Parcells. It's hard to suggest that his plethora of division titles were a result of a weak division, in light of the fact that he consistently took his teams deep into the playoffs.

I'd prefer to have GW, but I certainly wouldn't be upset with Cowher.

[stone]

Cowher is definitely a no...I believe that GW is definitely the next in line and here's why:

If you recall, I believe after the 2004 season ended a couple teams (can't recall who) were after GW for a head coaching job. These offers were not entertained and GW stated that he wanted to stay here in Washington. There was speculation that GW was
"promised" the HC position when Gibbs stepped down... Now everyone seem concerned that Al S. will get p-turbed and leave if GW gets the HC job but if this was all ironed out prior to Al S. stepping in… then there is "no issue”.

Coach Gibbs objective from day 1 of the GibbsII campaign was to return this team to the greatness it once was. I definitely feel we are on the right path and do you really think for once second that coach Gibbs would walk away from all his hard work only to have it torn apart by someone other than who he trusts and knows and has work closely with for that past 4 years???? Do you really think for once second that coach Gibbs would walk away from all his hard work without having a solid plan, ready to be executed at a moments notice??? If coach Gibbs walks away from this team and leaves it in shambles his character is completely tarnished!!! No brainer man... Gregg Williams is the next Head Coach of the Washington Redskins and I honestly believe that we won't skip a beat... Can’t wait for 2008!!!! GO SKINS!

[724Skinsfan]

I''l be mildly surprised if Cowher is ever our head coach. Even a bit more surprised if Williams isn't offered the job. He could decline it, of course. #1 on my list is Williams.
#2 is Russ Grimm. I do like the security blanket idea of bringing in a former Skins player with a plenty of coaching experience in today's NFL. However, by bringing in Grimm are we destined to use his own legacy against him, too?