More dislike of Snyder: John Kent Cooke

[MTK]

Norv was fired in year 7 with the team and probably should have been canned much earlier. He's only proved since then to be a mediocre head coach in this league. There's a difference between having patience, and not knowing when to cut ties with a bad thing.

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Norv was fired in year 7 with the team and probably should have been canned much earlier. He's only proved since then to be a mediocre head coach in this league. There's a difference between having patience, and not knowing when to cut ties with a bad thing.

True, but I think that line is very thin. I do believe it took Norv Turner too long to finally get the Redskins into playing better football and winning games. However, point being is, they finally started winning more. They finally started winning division championships and getting into the playoffs. I felt Snyder was a little hasty in firing Turner midseason. Especially when the Redskins were at a 7-6 record. By all accounts, Turner should have been fired before the '98 or '99 seasons. But, because he wasn't, and because they (front office) stuck with him, he eventually got the Redskins in the playoffs.

I guess my line of thinking is, if you're going to fire a guy, don't do it after he finally "catches on". Stick with him at that point. I suppose I was giving Turner a free pass for the ugly years we endured under him before that '99 season. From that point on (the '99 playoff season) is when Turner should have been scrutinized the most in my opinion. In another words, "Ok, you have finally started doing what we hired you to do. So, we're starting on a clean slate now. We are going to see if you can at least repeat that and eventually improve from that. If so, then you're working out. If the team regresses, you're gone!"

We can say the team regressed that following year, but since Turner was fired before the season was over (at a 7-6 record,) then we can't really say for sure that Turner would not have gotten the Redskins into the playoffs again. Or, at least a 10-6 record if nothing else.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by skinsguy

True, but I think that line is very thin. I do believe it took Norv Turner too long to finally get the Redskins into playing better football and winning games. However, point being is, they finally started winning more. They finally started winning division championships and getting into the playoffs. I felt Snyder was a little hasty in firing Turner midseason. Especially when the Redskins were at a 7-6 record. By all accounts, Turner should have been fired before the '98 or '99 seasons. But, because he wasn't, and because they (front office) stuck with him, he eventually got the Redskins in the playoffs.

I guess my line of thinking is, if you're going to fire a guy, don't do it after he finally "catches on". Stick with him at that point. I suppose I was giving Turner a free pass for the ugly years we endured under him before that '99 season. From that point on (the '99 playoff season) is when Turner should have been scrutinized the most in my opinion. In another words, "Ok, you have finally started doing what we hired you to do. So, we're starting on a clean slate now. We are going to see if you can at least repeat that and eventually improve from that. If so, then you're working out. If the team regresses, you're gone!"

We can say the team regressed that following year, but since Turner was fired before the season was over (at a 7-6 record,) then we can't really say for sure that Turner would not have gotten the Redskins into the playoffs again. Or, at least a 10-6 record if nothing else.

Fair points

But let's also remember Turner wasn't just 7-6. He had just lost 4 of his last 5 games (including back to back division losses). The team was heading on a downward spiral. Should Snyder have waited until the end of the season? Yes, and he's admitted as much. But Norv did have to go.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Norv was fired in year 7 with the team and probably should have been canned much earlier. He's only proved since then to be a mediocre head coach in this league. There's a difference between having patience, and not knowing when to cut ties with a bad thing.

Agreed. As for John Kent Cooke, the stories I've heard from players back in those days was that he was a complete figurehead.

His dad didn't trust him to make any big decisions and kept him out of the loop for the most part. I don't believe we would have been any better off necessarily with John Kent Cooke and if his ownership meant we would have Norv and it would be anything like 1998 then we're definitely better off without him, without both of them.

Kind of funny how Cooke is picking now to speak up.

[freddyg12]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Agreed. As for John Kent Cooke, the stories I've heard from players back in those days was that he was a complete figurehead.

His dad didn't trust him to make any big decisions and kept him out of the loop for the most part. I don't believe we would have been any better off necessarily with John Kent Cooke and if his ownership meant we would have Norv and it would be anything like 1998 then we're definitely better off without him, without both of them.

Kind of funny how Cooke is picking now to speak up.

He knows at least one thing about football; 'piling on!'

[redsk1]

Norv did deserve to get fired. Maybe not in the middle of the season. He's a heck of a offensive coordinator and a nice guy but not a head coach. He got into the playoffs once right? Now, had DS not signed every free agent on the market the year after our NFC East Crown, who knows?

Hey, speaking of the Norv days, these are great stories by Tre Johnson. Check it out. The Spurrier story is great....sleet?

D.C. Sports Bog - Tre' Johnson on Snyder Tactics: "It's Pure Comedy"

Hey, Dan Snyder will get it right, we'll have our day. VC is going to be gone soon. Keep the faith.

[Redskins_P]

John Kent Cooke is on 106.7 the Fan right now (Mike Wise show)

My God he sounds almost exactly like his father!

[freddyg12]

I remember many saying that the other owners wanted John to get the team, mainly because they thought he'd be a pushover of sorts.

It's not that I wish he'd gotten the team, it's just that the article reinforced my perception of Snyder & the last 10 years. Of course, John KC has an axe to grind, but these days who's going to blame him for calling out Snyder's track record?

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

I don't know if our team would be playing any better on Sundays, but the franchise would probably look a little different. For one thing, I doubt we would be so reviled by the press. While Al Davis might be the butt of a lot of jokes in the press, most journalists who have met Snyder absolutely detest the man. Davis is mocked for being senile and a bad manager, Snyder is mocked for being an arrogant jerk. That's not based on the team's performance, it's based on personal interactions with the man and tales of how he treated guys like Mike Nolan, Laveranues Coles, and others. Or how Snyder derided Art Modell as someone he wouldn't want to emulate because he's won just one SB ring.

Also, Snyder has "commercialized" (for lack of a better word) the team. This is the guy who tried to charge admission to training camp. Now, Snyder is running a business and he's made the team much more profitable, but I feel like the team is trying to squeeze every little penny out of the fans. He seems to deal with the fans on an arms-length basis.

Maybe Snyder is a good guy and maybe the team's struggles aren't his fault, but most everything I've read about the guy seems to indicate that he's a world class prick. I'm amazed that a guy who has done such a poor job of interacting with the press is a marketing guru.

[Defensewins]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

I don't know if our team would be playing any better on Sundays, but the franchise would probably look a little different. For one thing, I doubt we would be so reviled by the press. While Al Davis might be the butt of a lot of jokes in the press, most journalists who have met Snyder absolutely detest the man. Davis is mocked for being senile and a bad manager, Snyder is mocked for being an arrogant jerk. That's not based on the team's performance, it's based on personal interactions with the man and tales of how he treated guys like Mike Nolan, Laveranues Coles, and others. Or how Snyder derided Art Modell as someone he wouldn't want to emulate because he's won just one SB ring.

Also, Snyder has "commercialized" (for lack of a better word) the team. This is the guy who tried to charge admission to training camp. Now, Snyder is running a business and he's made the team much more profitable, but I feel like the team is trying to squeeze every little penny out of the fans. He seems to deal with the fans on an arms-length basis.

Maybe Snyder is a good guy and maybe the team's struggles aren't his fault, but most everything I've read about the guy seems to indicate that he's a world class prick. I'm amazed that a guy who has done such a poor job of interacting with the press is a marketing guru.

Very interesting post.
I really think buying the Redskins really changed Danny for the worse. The Danny was never really in the limelight until he bought the Redskins.
Jack Kent Cooke on the other hand bought the LA Lakers in 1965, built the LA Forum and created the now famous yellow and purple uniforms. He coined the term the Fabulous Forum. This guy was an amazing businessman. He also bought the LA kings. He did not become majority owner of the Skins until 1974.
JKC could handle the ego trip when his Skins finally won a SB and later three SB's and became one of the top franchises in the NFL. Hell Cooke built the current Redskins cash cow of the stadium they play in. Danny boy really did not have to do much. But yet he gets immense credit.
DS sense of reality is warped, he really acts like those three SB trophies in the case are his. Like he earned them.
He is arrogant with out earning it, so people do not respect him.
At least Al Davis has earned his SB trophies and the right to be eccentric, partly because he is really old. Danny boy has no excuse other than being really rich and lacking in the ability to run a FO. Ten difficult years later, not much has changed.
I am sure JKC could be a prick as well, but he was a respected prick. DS is just a arrogant prick that can not allow someone other then himself produce a winner in DC.

[souperbad]

...all this Norv Turner should be put in perspective.

We had a playoff team in 1999 with Norv Turner, it was the last time we won the division. It took a while....but we rebuilt the team.

The following year, Mr. Snyder came to town and...Jeff George...Deon Sanders...etc... You are really going to put the 7-6 on Norv. I would give anything for the Norv Turner years.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by souperbad

...all this Norv Turner should be put in perspective.

We had a playoff team in 1999 with Norv Turner, it was the last time we won the division. It took a while....but we rebuilt the team.

The following year, Mr. Snyder came to town and...Jeff George...Deon Sanders...etc... You are really going to put the 7-6 on Norv. I would give anything for the Norv Turner years.

Whoa nelly. While we can't say for sure what John v Snyder would look like. One thing we do have is a track record for Norv. San Diego is the epitomy of a Norv Turner coached team. 14-2 under Marty. Norv came in and it has been backtracking every year. If Norv had stayed, or continued his years here, fans would have screamed just as loud for his ouster, and cursed Snyder for keeping him.
Norv is an OC, a good one. Not a HC, not at all, not a good one.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

Whoa nelly. While we can't say for sure what John v Snyder would look like. One thing we do have is a track record for Norv. San Diego is the epitomy of a Norv Turner coached team. 14-2 under Marty. Norv came in and it has been backtracking every year. If Norv had stayed, or continued his years here, fans would have screamed just as loud for his ouster, and cursed Snyder for keeping him.
Norv is an OC, a good one. Not a HC, not at all, not a good one.

See this cracks me up. Marty got fired cause he couldn't get along w/ the GM but he also couldn't advance in the playoffs. That's all that matters.....what you do in the playoffs. I'd rather go 8-8 and advance then go 14-2 and not win a game. Norv is certainly not the HC Marty is, got he's got something Marty doesn't....3 playoff wins. Marty has 0.

[skinsguy]

I just find it interesting that we're hearing from John Kent Cooke now that the 'skins are falling apart. It definitely comes out of the woodwork!

I think football itself has become way too commercialized. It seems like the constant rule changes has changed the game completely.

I always like to give the benefit of the doubt to people I don't know personally, but it's hard to like a guy like Dan Snyder. Seems like the only guy that has ever said anything good about him was Joe Gibbs. Probably because Snyder worshiped Joe. I would love for someone like Joe Gibbs to own the team, because we all know he would hire in the right guys in the right positions and build the team the way it should be built.

[skinsguy]

I guess one thing John would probably have going for him is that he probably wouldn't have fired Charlie Casserly. Not that he was as great a GM as what BB was, but still worlds apart from Vinny C.