Documents reveal AT&T, Verizon, Caterpillar and Deere are considering droping health care coverage

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by mlmpetert

Employers looking at health insurance options - Yahoo! News

WASHINGTON – The new health care law wasn't supposed to undercut employer plans that have provided most people in the U.S. with coverage for generations.

But last week a leading manufacturer told workers their costs will jump partly because of the law. Also, a Democratic governor laid out a scheme for employers to get out of health care by shifting workers into taxpayer-subsidized insurance markets that open in 2014.

While it's too early to proclaim the demise of job-based coverage, corporate number crunchers are looking at options that could lead to major changes.

"The economics of dropping existing coverage is about to become very attractive to many employers, both public and private," said Gov. Phil Bredesen, D-Tenn.

That's just not going to happen, White House officials say.

"The absolute certainty about the Affordable Care Act is that for many, many employers who cover millions of people, it increases the incentives for them to offer coverage," said Jason Furman, an economic adviser to President Barack Obama.

Yet at least one major employer has shifted a greater share of plan costs to workers, and others are weighing the pros and cons of eventually forcing employees to strike out on their own.

"I don't think you are going to hear anybody publicly say 'We've made a decision to drop insurance,' " said Paul Keckley, executive director of the Deloitte Center for Health Solutions. "What we are hearing in our meetings is, 'We don't want to be the first one to drop benefits, but we would be the fast second.' We are hearing that a lot." Deloitte is a major accounting and consulting firm.

I said all along the goal of the Dems and the health care bill is to shift as many people from private health ins to the federal plan. After they get enough people then its just a matter of time until they push for a one payer goverment health ins.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

The private sector is so far ahead of the government in terms of understanding the tax laws, it's not even funny. The $2K fine was a ridiculous number, it pretty much gives all the incentive a company would ever need to revoke coverage.

Lawmakers = simpletons. That's what happens when you spend half your life campaigning, as opposed to studying the issues and actually thinking about them.

Politicians and bureaucrats suffer from the same thing...they have no idea how the private sector really works. Of course that is a vast generalization but when you think of the two sectors as single entities then the image really fits. Private companies know how to do what they are supposed to do...make money. The public sector knows how to do what? What exactly is the motivation in that sector? There isn't one really.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

Politicians and bureaucrats suffer from the same thing...they have no idea how the private sector really works. Of course that is a vast generalization but when you think of the two sectors as single entities then the image really fits. Private companies know how to do what they are supposed to do...make money. The public sector knows how to do what? What exactly is the motivation in that sector? There isn't one really.

Siphon your tax dollars to the private sector.

[Dirtbag59]

I've been on the Verizon health plan for a while now since my Dad worked for Verizon up until 2008 when they layed him off. Needless to say the benefits were top notch. However we did have a few problems after he got laid off. It took us somewhere around 1 or 2 months to renew the policy which they legally had to offer him. So I was basically getting prescriptions and going went on a doctors visit retroactively.

Now apparently everyone in my family is about to get bumped off the coverage plan, though I think part of that is due to my Dad getting a new job. I mean it's obvious why I can't be covered anymore since I'm no longer a student but I was kind of surprised to see my Mother get kicked off the plan to.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag359

I've been on the Verizon health plan for a while now since my Dad worked for Verizon up until 2008 when they layed him off. Needless to say the benefits were top notch. However we did have a few problems after he got laid off. It took us somewhere around 1 or 2 months to renew the policy which they legally had to offer him. So I was basically getting prescriptions and going went on a doctors visit retroactively.

Now apparently everyone in my family is about to get bumped off the coverage plan, though I think part of that is due to my Dad getting a new job. I mean it's obvious why I can't be covered anymore since I'm no longer a student but I was kind of surprised to see my Mother get kicked off the plan to.

You were probably under COBRA, Schneed can give you the details about COBRA if necessary. In a nutshell, it's a gov't mandated that you can continue med coverage if you lose your job or get laid off. I think it only lasts for 18 months and you pay the premiums 100%.

As soon as your Dad is eligible for insurance under his new company, I'm sure your Mom will be covered.

[mlmpetert]

I don’t think this is a loophole or a planned thing. I think this was just a huge oversight by the previous Chair of the House Oversight Committee, Henry Waxman. I thought they had requested this info before the health reform vote, but I was wrong it was after. The reform bills passage was on March 21st. On March 25th and 26th some large companies said it would be far too expensive to provide prescription drug coverage to retired employees. Waxman viewed it as a shot at the Democrats and added embarrassment to an unpopular bill and ordered the companies to submit their findings to a him by April 21st as a scolding. Then sometime before the hearing everything was abruptly canceled.


http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/politics/Democrats-threaten-companies-hit-hard-by-health-care-bill-89347127.html


So here is a excellent piece from a slightly biased website I stumbled on representing the Party for Socialism and Liberation (honestly they sum up the facts really nicely):

U.S. Congress: nothing but a talk shop
In response, the congressional House Energy and Commerce Committee, headed up by Rep. Henry Waxman (D-Calif.) demanded that the big corporations turn over their confidential memos and summoned top executives for hearings on the matter.
But once 1,100 pages of memos from four major corporations were submitted, the congressional committee abruptly canceled the hearings and released a memo letting them off the hook.

Why did they do this? Once again, the power of the corporations overwhelmed their lackeys in Congress. The bold move of dumping health care insurance for millions of workers silenced the elected officials, who once again yielded their power to the almighty capitalists. Information getting out about such a brazen corporate plot risked the potential of an outpouring of anger by the people.

Here are some of the facts that these documents revealed:

AT&T produced a PowerPoint presentation entitled "Medical Cost Versus No Coverage Penalty" that promoted the concept of "pay not play." It demonstrated how their costs would fall from $2.4 billion to $600 million if they pay government penalties instead of providing coverage.

A document produced for Verizon, the giant telecommunications company, stated, "Even though the proposed assessment on companies that do not provide health care are material, they are modest when compared to the average cost of health care" and "employers may consider exiting the health care market and send employees to the Exchanges."

In an internal memo from Kenneth Huhn, vice president of labor relations at John Deere, Huhn urged his company to look at the alternative to providing health benefits, which in his words "would amount to denying coverage and just paying the penalty" and that he was sure he already had the ability to make this change under the company’s current labor agreement.

Internal documents also show that the giant anti-union Caterpillar Corporation felt that the penalty option deserved "serious consideration."

Straddled by health care costs won by workers through years of struggle and sacrifice the bosses now see a chance to attack those benefits, using the new health care bill as an excuse

http://www.pslweb.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=14026&news_iv_ctrl=1261

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag359

I've been on the Verizon health plan for a while now since my Dad worked for Verizon up until 2008 when they layed him off. Needless to say the benefits were top notch. However we did have a few problems after he got laid off. It took us somewhere around 1 or 2 months to renew the policy which they legally had to offer him. So I was basically getting prescriptions and going went on a doctors visit retroactively.

Now apparently everyone in my family is about to get bumped off the coverage plan, though I think part of that is due to my Dad getting a new job. I mean it's obvious why I can't be covered anymore since I'm no longer a student but I was kind of surprised to see my Mother get kicked off the plan to.

You can now be covered under your parents coverage up to age 26. If your mother did not work at verizon they would not offer her any coverage after you dad left.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by saden1

Siphon your tax dollars to the private sector.

That's not a motivation. It's a role. What is the incentive in the public sector?

[saden1]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

That's not a motivation. It's a role. What is the incentive in the public sector?

The motivation of a business is that of the business owner(s). For the most part their end goal is to make money but sometimes it is not (i.e. NGOs). Similarly the motivation of a government is that of those who form them. According to Thomas Hobbes' Social Contract Theory the incentive for forming a government is to avoid anarchy. Having a functioning government is a prerequisite for an environment conducive to creation of vibrant businesses and economic growth (see Somalia). To put it simply the incentive is to maintain public order and safety so that I don't burn down your business because your competitor paid me to.


p.s. SS33, don't think I wouldn't burn down your pizzeria if Papa John's paid me to

[tryfuhl]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

The private sector is so far ahead of the government in terms of understanding the tax laws, it's not even funny. The $2K fine was a ridiculous number, it pretty much gives all the incentive a company would ever need to revoke coverage.

Lawmakers = simpletons. That's what happens when you spend half your life campaigning, as opposed to studying the issues and actually thinking about them.

I couldn't agree more. These guys aren't reading the bills, don't specialize in the stuff that they're voting for, etc.

[FRPLG]

Shocker.

[saden1]

You tell Boeing to give their employees more adequate health benefits so they wouldn't have their hands out for some Medicaid dollars when they can't afford care. In a normal world Republicans would cheer people taking personal responsibility so we wouldn't have to collectively pay for them.

I found this line from the article...Ouchy

"If this health care law hadn't passed, would we be making changes to the health care benefit? Absolutely. For competitive reasons."

[mlmpetert]

McDonalds weighs workers insurance against lowering costs and taxes - Orlando liberal | Examiner.com

[mlmpetert]

Citing Health Care Law, Boeing Pares Employee Plan : NPR

[mlmpetert]

Yikes!

1 in 3 Employers Will Drop Health Benefits After ObamaCare Kicks In, Survey Finds - FoxNews.com