A few notes on Ramsey:

[SUNRA]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

So where are you getting your #'s from?

You say it's good to give stats but you go on to say he was "probably" sacked more than any other first year QB which is totaly false, Carr was sacked an NFL record 76 times in his rookie season, thank you.

As for the batted passes I have no idea where you're "probably" getting that number from but I'd be interested to hear your source.

My source is the NFL Network. Solomon Wilcotts and Sharpe mentioned his first year stats on the evening show. Probably is not a definite article. It simply means it is a possibility. Remember Ramsey didn't finish the season.

[SUNRA]

[QUOTE=Redskins_P]Whats your deal with Ramsey SUNRA? Come one man give the guy a chance to prove himself. And why are you comparing him to Manning? Manning was the first overall pick![/QUOTE

You have to read the thread by Jdlea who first made the comparison between Ramsey and Manning like that's something to brag about. Presently,Manning is the best QB in the league, so why waste time with frivilous comparisons when Ramsey is just getting out of the basement? Some of you guys need to stop counting your eggs before they hatch.

[Redskins_P]

[QUOTE=SUNRA]It's not that I don't like Ramsey. I don't like mediocrity. [QUOTE]


If you don't like mediocrity, then why did you blindly follow Brunell? I'm not trying to bust your balls, but you defended Brunell left and right and nobody really said anything. But then you got guys in here supporting and defending Ramsey and you're always trying to find something negative about him. Let's remember that Ramsey is 25 years old, so of course he's going to make mistakes, of course he's gonna throw some INT's. Give him some time to mature, then judge him.

We all judge Brunell because he's a veteran, and he's a proven player. He's been in the league for over 10 years and unfortunately we got him right when his play was declining. He came in and stunk up the joint. You have to admit that.

Like I said before, I'm not trying to bust your balls. This isn't a personal attack.

[SUNRA]

Originally Posted by htownskinfan

yeah,but Carr lasted the whole yr,Ramsey didnt

See some people actually understand the point rather than take offense to the point. Thank you, sir.

[Redskins_P]

Originally Posted by SUNRA

See some people actually understand the point rather than take offense to the point. Thank you, sir.

No one is taking offense buddy. Calm down.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by SUNRA

See some people actually understand the point rather than take offense to the point. Thank you, sir.

What's the point??

Carr lasted the whole year, Ramsey didn't?

Ramsey in his rookie year was yanked in and out of the lineup on a weekly basis.

Carr was left in to take his bumps while Spurrier played musical chairs at QB.

So what's the point?

[SUNRA]

[QUOTE=Redskins_P][QUOTE=SUNRA]It's not that I don't like Ramsey. I don't like mediocrity. [QUOTE]


If you don't like mediocrity, then why did you blindly follow Brunell? I'm not trying to bust your balls, but you defended Brunell left and right and nobody really said anything. But then you got guys in here supporting and defending Ramsey and you're always trying to find something negative about him. Let's remember that Ramsey is 25 years old, so of course he's going to make mistakes, of course he's gonna throw some INT's. Give him some time to mature, then judge him.

We all judge Brunell because he's a veteran, and he's a proven player. He's been in the league for over 10 years and unfortunately we got him right when his play was declining. He came in and stunk up the joint. You have to admit that.

Are you serious? I was battling week after week on posts concerning Brunell. There's no truth in that statement at all is it Matty?

I don't think you paid attention to my argument. I am not a Brunell fan. I supported Gibbs's decision to play Brunell because he had no option with Ramsey after the Giants game. While a lot of you criticized Gibbs and questioned his decision, I stayed the course and now you should see and understand by now. Many cried and moaned to get Ramsey in there, and tell me what your emotions were when he threw his first INT or took his first of many sacks or maybe his 6 potential INTs? Take your pick.

How much time should I give Ramsey? 7 games? Or maybe I should overlook this season and just focus on the off-season. Judge Ramsey by the same criteria that you judge Brunell or any other QB. The fact remains that Ramsey hasn't done anything.

[jdlea]

I wasn't trying to say that Ramsey was going to be better than Manning. All I was trying to point out was that Ramsey accomplished a feat by throwing more Touchdowns than picks in his first year as a starter! Manning is the best QB in the league and he couldn't do it. I don't think Ramsey will be better than Manning, but I do think Ramsey will be a good quarterback. If he isn't, I think it is the fault of Steve Spurrier and Joe Gibbs. He has heart and a strong arm. He's inherited a 17 point deficit and a 13 point deficit this season and people on this site have tried to crucify him for throwing picks...well no sh#t he's gonna throw some picks because he's trying to force things to get them back into the game.

Also, it took him a while to get going because he hadn't played in months and he was a slow starter last season, too. That didn't surprise me. All in all, he did get going and didn't play too bad. He'll only get better with time.

[MTK]

Personally I'm willing to live with some INT's and sacks. That's what happens when you commit to a young QB.

Brunell was totally ineffective and he had his share of turnovers too, so the tradeoff is at least Ramsey can get the ball down the field.

All the great ones take their lumps early in their careers, well except for Roethlisberger but he's the exception.

Unless he just absolutely stinks up the joint for these last 7 games, I'm willing to give him a good part of next season too along with these 7 games to take his lumps.

There's only one way we're going to find out if Ramsey can get it done. And that's to give him an honest shot. He hasn't had that yet, not under Spurrier and definitely not yet with Gibbs. Even Gibbs admits he's thrown him into some really tough situations this season.

[SUNRA]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

What's the point??

Carr lasted the whole year, Ramsey didn't?

Ramsey in his rookie year was yanked in and out of the lineup on a weekly basis.

Carr was left in to take his bumps while Spurrier played musical chairs at QB.

So what's the point?

The point is that comparing Ramsey to other more successful QB's is a waste of time. I can hear the excuses now because there will be excuses. I'm looking at next season for another veteran QB. Gibbs said, as long as it takes to return this team to a winning team." I have waited 12 seasons and I'll just have to wait one or two more.

[Daseal]

Ramsey's bad 2.5 quarters neted more passing yards than Brunell's last two games. Give the guy some time!

[Redskins_P]

[QUOTE=SUNRA][QUOTE=Redskins_P][QUOTE=SUNRA]It's not that I don't like Ramsey. I don't like mediocrity.

Are you serious? I was battling week after week on posts concerning Brunell. There's no truth in that statement at all is it Matty?

I don't think you paid attention to my argument. I am not a Brunell fan. I supported Gibbs's decision to play Brunell because he had no option with Ramsey after the Giants game. While a lot of you criticized Gibbs and questioned his decision, I stayed the course and now you should see and understand by now. Many cried and moaned to get Ramsey in there, and tell me what your emotions were when he threw his first INT or took his first of many sacks or maybe his 6 potential INTs? Take your pick.

How much time should I give Ramsey? 7 games? Or maybe I should overlook this season and just focus on the off-season. Judge Ramsey by the same criteria that you judge Brunell or any other QB. The fact remains that Ramsey hasn't done anything.

I have never once criticized Gibbs. I know you weren't referring to me. I hope you were talking about ZackMills

I'll pick Ramsey....he was way more upside than Brunell or Hasselbeck.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by jdlea

I wasn't trying to say that Ramsey was going to be better than Manning. All I was trying to point out was that Ramsey accomplished a feat by throwing more Touchdowns than picks in his first year as a starter! Manning is the best QB in the league and he couldn't do it. I don't think Ramsey will be better than Manning, but I do think Ramsey will be a good quarterback. If he isn't, I think it is the fault of Steve Spurrier and Joe Gibbs. He has heart and a strong arm. He's inherited a 17 point deficit and a 13 point deficit this season and people on this site have tried to crucify him for throwing picks...well no sh#t he's gonna throw some picks because he's trying to force things to get them back into the game.

Also, it took him a while to get going because he hadn't played in months and he was a slow starter last season, too. That didn't surprise me. All in all, he did get going and didn't play too bad. He'll only get better with time.

I understand your what you're trying to say with the Manning comparison.

Here are the numbers for their first 16 starts of their careers:

Ramsey: 296/564, 52.5%, 3705 yards, 23 TD's 17 INT's

Manning: 326/575 56.7%, 3739 yards, 26 TD's 28 INT's

And just for good measure,

Carr: 233/444, 52.5%, 2592 yards, 9 TD's 15 INT's

It's pretty rare for a QB to have more TD's than INT's so early in their career, yet somehow Ramsey has been pegged for being an INT machine lately.

I'd be willing to bet that under different circumstances he wouldn't have even attempted some of the throws that have resulted in INT's for him this year. Problem is he's come in to the game with the team way behind and he's forced some things to try to make things happen.

[SUNRA]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Personally I'm willing to live with some INT's and sacks. That's what happens when you commit to a young QB.

Brunell was totally ineffective and he had his share of turnovers too, so the tradeoff is at least Ramsey can get the ball down the field.

All the great ones take their lumps early in their careers, well except for Roethlisberger but he's the exception.

Unless he just absolutely stinks up the joint for these last 7 games, I'm willing to give him a good part of next season too along with these 7 games to take his lumps.

There's only one way we're going to find out if Ramsey can get it done. And that's to give him an honest shot. He hasn't had that yet, not under Spurrier and definitely not yet with Gibbs. Even Gibbs admits he's thrown him into some really tough situations this season.

As Tre Johnson said on the Redskins show, "Ramsey is paid to come in and give his team a lift when the other QB isn't. It's not a unique phenomenon, to have a QB come in from behind and win a game. I'm not that understanding of turnovers for someone who is not a rookie in the first place. Secondly, a good QB would approach this mid-season change as a way to make Gibbs a believer in him. Ramsey's preparation in practice was questioned by Bugel and I see why. When a reporter asked Ramsey after the game if he thought he would get a chance to play after the consistenly bad performances of Brunell? He actually said, No. I didn't really think I would play. How in the hell did he not think he would get a chance to play? If he thought like that, his preparation in practice was not all that great.

[Redskins_P]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I understand your what you're trying to say with the Manning comparison.

Here are the numbers for their first 16 starts of their careers:

Ramsey: 296/564, 52.5%, 3705 yards, 23 TD's 17 INT's

Manning: 326/575 56.7%, 3739 yards, 26 TD's 28 INT's

And just for good measure,

Carr: 233/444, 52.5%, 2592 yards, 9 TD's 15 INT's

It's pretty rare for a QB to have more TD's than INT's so early in their career, yet somehow Ramsey has been pegged for being an INT machine lately.




I'd be willing to bet that under different circumstances he wouldn't have even attempted some of the throws that have resulted in INT's for him this year. Problem is he's come in to the game with the team way behind and he's forced some things to try to make things happen.

Thanks Matty..