Redskins vs. Bengals Post Game Reaction

[SmootSmack]

When we win after showing pistol it's all great, but when we lose after showing the triple option it's doom and gloom.

I'm sure the Redskins have plenty for more tricks up their sleeves and I have no problem with using the triple option yesterday. Games in December won't matter anyway if you can't win in September.

I think the offense we ran in the 2nd half yesterday helped spread the defense out, helped our OL (to an extent) and stretching the field was/is key to the success of this team.

My beef against it is that I kept waiting for it to set up something "conventional" which I'm not sure I totally saw. Well, correction, I think the Hankerson PI is what I was waiting for. And when it failed, they didn't go back to it.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

When we win after showing pistol it's all great, but when we lose after showing the triple option it's doom and gloom.

I'm sure the Redskins have plenty for more tricks up their sleeves and I have no problem with using the triple option yesterday. Games in December won't matter anyway if you can't win in September.

I think the offense we ran in the 2nd half yesterday helped spread the defense out, helped our OL (to an extent) and stretching the field was/is key to the success of this team.

My beef against it is that I kept waiting for it to set up something "conventional" which I'm not sure I totally saw. Well, correction, I think the Hankerson PI is what I was waiting for. And when it failed, they didn't go back to it.

All this trickeration is fine and dandy. But honestly, can we win and be an elite team playing offense like this? NFL QB's either make it or they don't by making plays from the pocket. Kyle has got to tone it down with all the option stuff.

[CrustyRedskin]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

All this trickeration is fine and dandy. But honestly, can we win and be an elite team playing offense like this? NFL QB's either make it or they don't by making plays from the pocket. Kyle has got to tone it down with all the option stuff.

ie Andy Dalton

[jdc65]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

When we win after showing pistol it's all great, but when we lose after showing the triple option it's doom and gloom.

I'm sure the Redskins have plenty for more tricks up their sleeves and I have no problem with using the triple option yesterday. Games in December won't matter anyway if you can't win in September.

I think the offense we ran in the 2nd half yesterday helped spread the defense out, helped our OL (to an extent) and stretching the field was/is key to the success of this team.

My beef against it is that I kept waiting for it to set up something "conventional" which I'm not sure I totally saw. Well, correction, I think the Hankerson PI is what I was waiting for. And when it failed, they didn't go back to it.

It's doom and gloom because the team is unnecessarily exposing their future on a gimmick offense that has absolutely no chance for continued success. It's not building towards anything, there's nowhere to go with it. It's worse than play action because it takes too long, it's worse than rolling out because the Qb has to focus on 3 different things while also avoiding the inevitable pounding he will surely receive. Spreading the field is fine, but do it with receivers, formations, and well designed playcalls. Teach the kid something constructive.


There is nothing to setup with it but more option plays and misdirection. The defense could care less about misdirection if they can get a free shot at the Qb. Let em have 10 yards, we'll take out their Qb. It's a 1 time gimmick that only works because no one would expect such foolishness with your star player. Tebow is different, he is expendable plus he is freaking huge to take some punishment. Newton can run the read, but even he gets slammed. He is way bigger than Griffin, and that is already getting old for Carolina.

I can all but guarantee every team in the league will take notice of this, and will be laughing their a$$es off behind closed doors. The Buccaneers will be taking head shots if they try that crap next week. Now he is going to get hit even when he doesn't have the freaking ball. Can we expect the Swinging Gate with Griffin next?

They are supposed to be teaching him how to be an NFL quarterback. Yes, they can use his natural abilities, but his safety is paramount. It should be building blocks, one step leading to another. This is a gimmick and a desperation ploy because the offensive line is a joke, and Kyle has no excuses now for ineptitude. They might have drawn it up at halftime on the chalkboard because they had no answers. They clearly didn't practice it sufficiently because it looked so haphazard.

Why do you think Coughlin was so upset about the kneel down? Because he knows he has to keep his Qb healthy. It's coaching 101.

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by jdc65

It's doom and gloom because the team is unnecessarily exposing their future on a gimmick offense that has absolutely no chance for continued success. It's not building towards anything, there's nowhere to go with it. It's worse than play action because it takes too long, it's worse than rolling out because the Qb has to focus on 3 different things while also avoiding the inevitable pounding he will surely receive. Spreading the field is fine, but do it with receivers, formations, and well designed playcalls. Teach the kid something constructive.


There is nothing to setup with it but more option plays and misdirection. The defense could care less about misdirection if they can get a free shot at the Qb. Let em have 10 yards, we'll take out their Qb. It's a 1 time gimmick that only works because no one would expect such foolishness with your star player. Tebow is different, he is expendable plus he is freaking huge to take some punishment. Newton can run the read, but even he gets slammed. He is way bigger than Griffin, and that is already getting old for Carolina.

I can all but guarantee every team in the league will take notice of this, and will be laughing their a$$es off behind closed doors. The Buccaneers will be taking head shots if they try that crap next week. Now he is going to get hit even when he doesn't have the freaking ball. Can we expect the Swinging Gate with Griffin next?

They are supposed to be teaching him how to be an NFL quarterback. Yes, they can use his natural abilities, but his safety is paramount. It should be building blocks, one step leading to another. This is a gimmick and a desperation ploy because the offensive line is a joke, and Kyle has no excuses now for ineptitude. They might have drawn it up at halftime on the chalkboard because they had no answers. They clearly didn't practice it sufficiently because it looked so haphazard.

Why do you think Coughlin was so upset about the kneel down? Because he knows he has to keep his Qb healthy. It's coaching 101.

One of the better posts I've read here in a long time.

[aircoryell]

Originally Posted by jdc65

It's doom and gloom because the team is unnecessarily exposing their future on a gimmick offense that has absolutely no chance for continued success. It's not building towards anything, there's nowhere to go with it. It's worse than play action because it takes too long, it's worse than rolling out because the Qb has to focus on 3 different things while also avoiding the inevitable pounding he will surely receive. Spreading the field is fine, but do it with receivers, formations, and well designed playcalls. Teach the kid something constructive.


There is nothing to setup with it but more option plays and misdirection. The defense could care less about misdirection if they can get a free shot at the Qb. Let em have 10 yards, we'll take out their Qb. It's a 1 time gimmick that only works because no one would expect such foolishness with your star player. Tebow is different, he is expendable plus he is freaking huge to take some punishment. Newton can run the read, but even he gets slammed. He is way bigger than Griffin, and that is already getting old for Carolina.

I can all but guarantee every team in the league will take notice of this, and will be laughing their a$$es off behind closed doors. The Buccaneers will be taking head shots if they try that crap next week. Now he is going to get hit even when he doesn't have the freaking ball. Can we expect the Swinging Gate with Griffin next?

They are supposed to be teaching him how to be an NFL quarterback. Yes, they can use his natural abilities, but his safety is paramount. It should be building blocks, one step leading to another. This is a gimmick and a desperation ploy because the offensive line is a joke, and Kyle has no excuses now for ineptitude. They might have drawn it up at halftime on the chalkboard because they had no answers. They clearly didn't practice it sufficiently because it looked so haphazard.

Why do you think Coughlin was so upset about the kneel down? Because he knows he has to keep his Qb healthy. It's coaching 101.

To me, this post reeks of misdirected frustration. This is not a "gimmick" offense as you put it. And there is absolutely no evidence to substantiate your conclusion that it has no chance for "continued success". On the contrary, everything points to exactly the opposite.
What you're suggesting is to put Robert in a pro style offense under center (In Baylor he took ZERO snaps under center) and magically all those hits he's taking will go away. Did you watch the Rex and Beck take a pounding last year?
How you came to the conclusion that Kyle showed "ineptitude" is beyond me since you failed to explain that. In one sentence you call the offensive line a joke, and immediately take a shot at Kyle on the next one for running an offense to minimize it's exposure. :confused:
Kyle, in my opinion, is doing a masterful job helping Robert transition from his Baylor offense into a pro style offense. Letting him have some time under center while still running what he feels comfortable with to keep the points coming on the board.
Kyle has never been, is, or will be the problem. We've scored 30 points the last 3 games and are the 2nd ranked offense in the entire league for gods sake! If you think Kyle is the issue you are completely way off base.

[CrustyRedskin]

Originally Posted by jdc65
It's doom and gloom because the team is unnecessarily exposing their future on a gimmick offense that has absolutely no chance for continued success. It's not building towards anything, there's nowhere to go with it. It's worse than play action because it takes too long, it's worse than rolling out because the Qb has to focus on 3 different things while also avoiding the inevitable pounding he will surely receive. Spreading the field is fine, but do it with receivers, formations, and well designed playcalls. Teach the kid something constructive.


There is nothing to setup with it but more option plays and misdirection. The defense could care less about misdirection if they can get a free shot at the Qb. Let em have 10 yards, we'll take out their Qb. It's a 1 time gimmick that only works because no one would expect such foolishness with your star player. Tebow is different, he is expendable plus he is freaking huge to take some punishment. Newton can run the read, but even he gets slammed. He is way bigger than Griffin, and that is already getting old for Carolina.

I can all but guarantee every team in the league will take notice of this, and will be laughing their a$$es off behind closed doors. The Buccaneers will be taking head shots if they try that crap next week. Now he is going to get hit even when he doesn't have the freaking ball. Can we expect the Swinging Gate with Griffin next?

They are supposed to be teaching him how to be an NFL quarterback. Yes, they can use his natural abilities, but his safety is paramount. It should be building blocks, one step leading to another. This is a gimmick and a desperation ploy because the offensive line is a joke, and Kyle has no excuses now for ineptitude. They might have drawn it up at halftime on the chalkboard because they had no answers. They clearly didn't practice it sufficiently because it looked so haphazard.

Why do you think Coughlin was so upset about the kneel down? Because he knows he has to keep his Qb healthy. It's coaching 101.


Good stuff

[Evilgrin]

Originally Posted by CrustyRedskin

Originally Posted by jdc65
It's doom and gloom because the team is unnecessarily exposing their future on a gimmick offense that has absolutely no chance for continued success. It's not building towards anything, there's nowhere to go with it. It's worse than play action because it takes too long, it's worse than rolling out because the Qb has to focus on 3 different things while also avoiding the inevitable pounding he will surely receive. Spreading the field is fine, but do it with receivers, formations, and well designed playcalls. Teach the kid something constructive.


There is nothing to setup with it but more option plays and misdirection. The defense could care less about misdirection if they can get a free shot at the Qb. Let em have 10 yards, we'll take out their Qb. It's a 1 time gimmick that only works because no one would expect such foolishness with your star player. Tebow is different, he is expendable plus he is freaking huge to take some punishment. Newton can run the read, but even he gets slammed. He is way bigger than Griffin, and that is already getting old for Carolina.

I can all but guarantee every team in the league will take notice of this, and will be laughing their a$$es off behind closed doors. The Buccaneers will be taking head shots if they try that crap next week. Now he is going to get hit even when he doesn't have the freaking ball. Can we expect the Swinging Gate with Griffin next?

They are supposed to be teaching him how to be an NFL quarterback. Yes, they can use his natural abilities, but his safety is paramount. It should be building blocks, one step leading to another. This is a gimmick and a desperation ploy because the offensive line is a joke, and Kyle has no excuses now for ineptitude. They might have drawn it up at halftime on the chalkboard because they had no answers. They clearly didn't practice it sufficiently because it looked so haphazard.

Why do you think Coughlin was so upset about the kneel down? Because he knows he has to keep his Qb healthy. It's coaching 101.


Good stuff

The actual points produced by the offense say different.

[Carl Nicks]

Originally Posted by CrustyRedskin

I can all but guarantee every team in the league will take notice of this, and will be laughing their a$$es off behind closed doors. The Buccaneers will be taking head shots if they try that crap next week. Now he is going to get hit even when he doesn't have the freaking ball. Can we expect the Swinging Gate with Griffin next?

Why do you think Coughlin was so upset about the kneel down? Because he knows he has to keep his Qb healthy. It's coaching 101.

Honestly, I think Gerald McCoy might kill RGIII. He's a very good young player, but he looks like a sack of sticks (wearing dreads).

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by aircoryell

To me, this post reeks of misdirected frustration. This is not a "gimmick" offense as you put it. And there is absolutely no evidence to substantiate your conclusion that it has no chance for "continued success". On the contrary, everything points to exactly the opposite.
What you're suggesting is to put Robert in a pro style offense under center (In Baylor he took ZERO snaps under center) and magically all those hits he's taking will go away. Did you watch the Rex and Beck take a pounding last year?
How you came to the conclusion that Kyle showed "ineptitude" is beyond me since you failed to explain that. In one sentence you call the offensive line a joke, and immediately take a shot at Kyle on the next one for running an offense to minimize it's exposure. :confused:
Kyle, in my opinion, is doing a masterful job helping Robert transition from his Baylor offense into a pro style offense. Letting him have some time under center while still running what he feels comfortable with to keep the points coming on the board.
Kyle has never been, is, or will be the problem. We've scored 30 points the last 3 games and are the 2nd ranked offense in the entire league for gods sake! If you think Kyle is the issue you are completely way off base.

maybe i just believe whatever the hell i read - but the original comment had me depressed and you have just lifted my spirits! - lol

[aircoryell]

Originally Posted by punch it in

maybe i just believe whatever the hell i read - but the original comment had me depressed and you have just lifted my spirits! - lol

I'm glad! I'll never understand how anyone can follow this team while maintaining such a negative outlook that it becomes a chore to watch them. What fun is that?
I do, however, understand the frustration. But if you're going to bash someone, back it up with something. Otherwise it's just bashing for the sake of bashing.

[KI Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by aircoryell

To me, this post reeks of misdirected frustration. This is not a "gimmick" offense as you put it. And there is absolutely no evidence to substantiate your conclusion that it has no chance for "continued success". On the contrary, everything points to exactly the opposite.
What you're suggesting is to put Robert in a pro style offense under center (In Baylor he took ZERO snaps under center) and magically all those hits he's taking will go away. Did you watch the Rex and Beck take a pounding last year?
How you came to the conclusion that Kyle showed "ineptitude" is beyond me since you failed to explain that. In one sentence you call the offensive line a joke, and immediately take a shot at Kyle on the next one for running an offense to minimize it's exposure. :confused:
Kyle, in my opinion, is doing a masterful job helping Robert transition from his Baylor offense into a pro style offense. Letting him have some time under center while still running what he feels comfortable with to keep the points coming on the board.
Kyle has never been, is, or will be the problem. We've scored 30 points the last 3 games and are the 2nd ranked offense in the entire league for gods sake! If you think Kyle is the issue you are completely way off base.

You and some others who post here just don't get it when it comes to exposing RGIII to a pounding in run option offense. So I'm going to try to educate you about the major points that I think jdc65 was trying to make.

Point 1: RGIII is by far the most important player on this team for the future, not necessarily the present, of this franchise.

Point 2: RGIII must be protected as much as possible from a serious, possibly career threatening or career limiting injury because of his extraordinary value to the future of this franchise.

If I were in Dan Snyder's shoes, I would make an exception in the case of RGIII and I would "interfere" with Mike Shanahan's coaching decision to use RGIII in a run-oriented offense. I would tell him to cut it out. There is no way I would let Shanahan risk the future of my franchise in trying to beat the Bengals or any other team this season. Shanahan would simply need to find another way to win or I would fire him. That's how strongly I feel about this issue.

Surely, you must realize that, in defending the run option that a defender is always assigned to tackle the QB. Only the Skins opponents are not just trying to bring down RGIII - they are trying to crush him, to punish him as much as they possibly can. It is only a matter of time before RGIII is seriously hurt when running these types of plays. This is not Baylor. It is the NFL, where the big boys play.

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by KI Skins Fan

You and some others who post here just don't get it when it comes to exposing RGIII to a pounding in run option offense. So I'm going to try to educate you about the major points that I think jdc65 was trying to make.

Point 1: RGIII is by far the most important player on this team for the future, not necessarily the present, of this franchise.

Point 2: RGIII must be protected as much as possible from a serious, possibly career threatening or career limiting injury because of his extraordinary value to the future of this franchise.

If I were in Dan Snyder's shoes, I would make an exception in the case of RGIII and I would "interfere" with Mike Shanahan's coaching decision to use RGIII in a run-oriented offense. I would tell him to cut it out. There is no way I would let Shanahan risk the future of my franchise in trying to beat the Bengals or any other team this season. Shanahan would simply need to find another way to win or I would fire him. That's how strongly I feel about this issue.

Surely, you must realize that, in defending the run option that a defender is always assigned to tackle the QB. Only the Skins opponents are not just trying to bring down RGIII - they are trying to crush him, to punish him as much as they possibly can. It is only a matter of time before RGIII is seriously hurt when running these types of plays. This is not Baylor. It is the NFL, where the big boys play.

Excellent post KI. It's like folks were either too young or just didn't watch football when Vick was a Falcon. No starting caliber NFL QB can take the kind of pounding RG3 has so far. I wouldn't be surprised if he has a slight concussion from yesterday's game.

In three seasons the Shanahans have been patently unable to generate points with a conventional offense. Now they're risking the franchise QB to cover that fact. It's extremely shortsighted, and frankly irresponsible. I don't think Danny's so dumb he'll let it go on.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by KI Skins Fan

You and some others who post here just don't get it when it comes to exposing RGIII to a pounding in run option offense. So I'm going to try to educate you about the major points that I think jdc65 was trying to make.

Yes. Please, I am in need of education. You, and others with a similar need to educate, are clearly one step away from an NFL coaching job so arguments counter to your assumptions must simply be made by the blind and uninformed. Please - share your particular brand of brilliance.

Originally Posted by KI Skins Fan

Point 1: RGIII is by far the most important player on this team for the future, not necessarily the present, of this franchise.

Point 2: RGIII must be protected as much as possible from a serious, possibly career threatening or career limiting injury because of his extraordinary value to the future of this franchise.

You left out Point 3: In it's current state, the Skins O-Line cannot provide consistent protection for a 7 step drop and would be troubled even in a 5 step drop scheme. In a traditional offense, RGIII would be exposed to brutal blind side hits every time he drops back to pass. Given the state of our line, our running game would be ineffective and, as such, play action would have a limited ability to slow down the rush. Without the ability to manufacture points through the option, we would be playing from behind often allowing opposing D's to pin back their ears against our already overmatched line. Even using his athleticism to create time, traditional scrambling would expose him to hits by LB's or DB's w/ a running head start at him and/or hits similar to the ones taken while running the designed option.

Originally Posted by KI Skins Fan

If I were in Dan Snyder's shoes, I would make an exception in the case of RGIII and I would "interfere" with Mike Shanahan's coaching decision to use RGIII in a run-oriented offense. I would tell him to cut it out. There is no way I would let Shanahan risk the future of my franchise in trying to beat the Bengals or any other team this season. Shanahan would simply need to find another way to win or I would fire him. That's how strongly I feel about this issue.

Hi Vinny! Yup, overriding the coach's authority can lead to nothing but long term success for players.

Originally Posted by KI Skins Fan

Surely, you must realize that, in defending the run option that a defender is always assigned to tackle the QB. Only the Skins opponents are not just trying to bring down RGIII - they are trying to crush him, to punish him as much as they possibly can. It is only a matter of time before RGIII is seriously hurt when running these types of plays. This is not Baylor. It is the NFL, where the big boys play.

Because during a traditional pass play, w/out the option, the entire DL is not "trying to crush him, to punish him as much as they possibly can[.]" Insanity.

The option has one DL assigned hit the QB. True enough - at the same time, the hit generally can be seen coming and RGII has been very good about bracing for such hits. Additionally, the option has been successful in (1) manufacturing points; (2) slowing down the rush in both passing off the option and in the traditional drop backs; and (3) limiting the number of tacklers hitting RGIII on any running play or scramble b/c, just as they must account for RGIII, given his ability to read the entire field, the defenders cannot sell out to converge on him.

I am not a coach, I am Joe schmoe watching an offense that doesn't work like a traditional drop back/play action passing game. At the same time, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that the hits RGIII is exposed to are different than the hits he would be exposed to in a traditional offense.

It also doesn't take a rocket scientist to see RGIII is comfortable in the offense and adapting to NFL speed within it. As opposed to being pounded into the dirt time and time again in a drop back offense, and gaining neither confidence or adapting to the violence, RGIII is getting to play the game he is used to, taking hits in a manner he is accustomed to. To many young QB's get gun-shy, start getting happy feet, lose their confidence and have their careers cut-short by being forced playing both an unfamiliar offense on a bad team where they get hit every drop back. Once they start hearing feet, most never recover. Ever.

To poor uneducated me, the offensive design makes the best use of our currently configured O-line and creates an opportunity for RGIII to succeed now and in the future. You don't. I completely understand your points just as I have completely understood others with similar positions ... no need to educate me further. I understand the risks created by this offense and disagree that, without entirely writing off this season, they are greater than those incurred by inserting RGIII into a traditional NFL offense.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

When we win after showing pistol it's all great, but when we lose after showing the triple option it's doom and gloom.

To be honest with you, I've stated from the start that this option crap wasn't going to work long term (and it's not). The problem is that he's exposing his young QB to take some vicious hits (legal ones) that's going to end with him being out with injury. He can't keep this up for long no matter how much he says he can. This kid is smart enough to run a conventional offense with plays leaning towards his talents. (rollouts/bootlegs)

Really, with our run game, no need to expose our QB if you don't have to.