Free Agent WRs

[jermus22]

Kevin Curtis from St. Louis could be really good. Jurevicius is a big possession type guy, something our offense could use. Troy Walters intrigues me. He would be a valuable return specialist, taking pressure off of Thrash and Moss on punt returns and allowing us to release Antonio Brown (who is fumble prone).

If we don't get Curtis, I like the idea of Jurevicius as the #2 with Patten as the #3 guy. On 3rd and long, Patten and Moss could both stretch the field with Jurevicius working the short to intermediate routes. I also like the idea of Walters as the return man; we could probably get him cheap.

[FRPLG]

offiss.

Has it even crossed your mind that our offense changed dramatically when Patten went down? Was it not as clear to you as it was to many others that when Patten was out Moss clearly had a more difficult time getting open and was overwhelmed with double teams? Do you think it simply escaped everyone at Redskins Park that our WR2s weren't getting balls and they simply ignored it to the complete detriment to the passing game? What we had after Patten went down was:
Jacobs-basically he has proven to be worthless. You can blame Brunell all you want but a QB will look a guys way when he knows that guy will be open. TJ didn't get open. That was of course when he wasn't on the sideline sick. Plus how do you know Brunell didn't look at him and decide he wasn't open? You can't just throw him a ball unless he is open.
Thrash-Probably has a lost a step and therefore isn't suited as much to be a 2 as maybe a 3 or even a 4. A valuable special teamer he also was probably somewhat distracted playing almost 2/3 of the game.
Nobodies-A bunch of barely NFL caliber WRs who are best as special teamers with spot work on offense.

Look I don't understand why you defend Jacobs. He has had chances here and has NEVER done anything. Under this regime and before. The coaches point out that he doesn't do well in games. They actually POINT IT OUT. He isn't a good WR.

So I think TAFKAS is right. We need to look at gamers like JJ. I also think the best option is Randle El. He is exactly the type of guy we need. He can be a solid slot guy and he brings some dimension to the offense with his passing skills and overall athletic ability.

You can bang on Brunell all you want(I have also lately) but I do think the lack of a consistent WR2 and WR3 was not his fault. These guys have to know how to get open and do the little things to be good WRs.

[offiss]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

offiss.

Has it even crossed your mind that our offense changed dramatically when Patten went down? Was it not as clear to you as it was to many others that when Patten was out Moss clearly had a more difficult time getting open and was overwhelmed with double teams? Do you think it simply escaped everyone at Redskins Park that our WR2s weren't getting balls and they simply ignored it to the complete detriment to the passing game? What we had after Patten went down was:
Jacobs-basically he has proven to be worthless. You can blame Brunell all you want but a QB will look a guys way when he knows that guy will be open. TJ didn't get open. That was of course when he wasn't on the sideline sick. Plus how do you know Brunell didn't look at him and decide he wasn't open? You can't just throw him a ball unless he is open.
Thrash-Probably has a lost a step and therefore isn't suited as much to be a 2 as maybe a 3 or even a 4. A valuable special teamer he also was probably somewhat distracted playing almost 2/3 of the game.
Nobodies-A bunch of barely NFL caliber WRs who are best as special teamers with spot work on offense.

Look I don't understand why you defend Jacobs. He has had chances here and has NEVER done anything. Under this regime and before. The coaches point out that he doesn't do well in games. They actually POINT IT OUT. He isn't a good WR.

So I think TAFKAS is right. We need to look at gamers like JJ. I also think the best option is Randle El. He is exactly the type of guy we need. He can be a solid slot guy and he brings some dimension to the offense with his passing skills and overall athletic ability.

You can bang on Brunell all you want(I have also lately) but I do think the lack of a consistent WR2 and WR3 was not his fault. These guys have to know how to get open and do the little things to be good WRs.

It did, our offense was at it's best when we hit the Tampa, Cowboy's and Giants, and there was no Patton in any one of those games.

The problem with your statement about TJ is this other posters who attend the games have said the guy does get open but Brunell doesn't consider looking his way.

All of a sudden the Patton injury was a big blow to the offense? Makes me laugh as if he was doing anything before the injury, especially considering he had one of the best WR's in the NFL opposite him, normal rational would say that Patton should have been feasting on defenses who are out to shut down Moss, not the other way around.

Moss had a hard time getting the ball after Patton went down? No your right it didn't cross my mind because that didn't really happen.

Jacobs is worthless? Well so was Patton, I guess Moss didn't catch a ball after Patton went down? Who are you kidding? Moss continued his torid pace with jacobs in there as well, so this fantasy that some how Patton was providing this mysterious double coverage so Moss could rome the secondary with no, or single coverage is just pure fantasy.

I am curious who points out on the Skins that Jacobs is a lowsey reciever, I know Gibbs sings his praises in practice, Gibbs put's him out there doesn't he, so now are you saying Gibbs doesn't have a clue? Are you saying gibbs is starting a player who can't play? And if the guy is as bad as you say why is he even on the team, Gibbs watched him all last season, he couldn't evaluate the guy for what he is after a year? Well perhaps we should have addressed the WR position in the draft, rather than drafting a QB with no one to throw to.

Bottom line Patton was a big time reciever for the 3 time super bowl champs, comes to us and disapear's. So now JJ is a big time reciever, kind of funny he wasen't that with the Giants, and spends a lot of time on the injured list, systems and QB's can make or break a WR, and that is why I haven't closed the book on Jacobs, when a proven player like Patton disapears in our offense then that should raise a red flag that there could be another problem besides just the reciever. The fact is if Patton didn't do what he did in New England you would be trashing him to, saying the same things about him as you have about Jacobs, Patton spent more time on the bench injured this season than Jacobs?

Maybe Jacobs doesn't have what it takes who know's, but to make that assesment when all he has had is Brunell throwing him the ball just doesn't cut it for me. I seem to remember Coles wasen't overly enomoured with Brunell throwing him the ball either.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by offiss

It did, our offense was at it's best when we hit the Tampa, Cowboy's and Giants, and there was no Patton in any one of those games.

The problem with your statement about TJ is this other posters who attend the games have said the guy does get open but Brunell doesn't consider looking his way.

Well the people who say he was able to consistently get open are wrong. He wasn't. He consistently had no seperation and didn't show any type of ability to use his arms to get off jams at the line.

Originally Posted by offiss

All of a sudden the Patton injury was a big blow to the offense? Makes me laugh as if he was doing anything before the injury, especially considering he had one of the best WR's in the NFL opposite him, normal rational would say that Patton should have been feasting on defenses who are out to shut down Moss, not the other way around.

Moss had a hard time getting the ball after Patton went down? No your right it didn't cross my mind because that didn't really happen.

Jacobs is worthless? Well so was Patton, I guess Moss didn't catch a ball after Patton went down? Who are you kidding? Moss continued his torid pace with jacobs in there as well, so this fantasy that some how Patton was providing this mysterious double coverage so Moss could rome the secondary with no, or single coverage is just pure fantasy.

Yes losing Patten was a big blow. Moss's numberd DID go down after Patten went down.
------------ R Y Y/R TD
With Patten: 5.9 103 17.6 .55
W/O Patten: 4.5 78 17.6 .28

Patten played in the first 9 games. That makes Moss's number per game all down except yards per catch. You're wrong: his numbers did go down. It is a TESTAMENT TO GIBBS AND BRUNELL that the loss of Patten didn't seem as bad as it really was. It was simply pronounced against the defenses smart enough tor realize it and take advantage.

Originally Posted by offiss

I am curious who points out on the Skins that Jacobs is a lowsey reciever, I know Gibbs sings his praises in practice, Gibbs put's him out there doesn't he, so now are you saying Gibbs doesn't have a clue? Are you saying gibbs is starting a player who can't play? And if the guy is as bad as you say why is he even on the team, Gibbs watched him all last season, he couldn't evaluate the guy for what he is after a year? Well perhaps we should have addressed the WR position in the draft, rather than drafting a QB with no one to throw to.

I haven't the energy to go find specific quotes but I think others will back me up when I say that more than once while the coaches were praising your man TJ for his practice efforts they also mentioned that he was failing to do the same in games. And yes the coaches put him out there. They put him out there because 2 of our top 3 WRs were down. He is our 4th WR. That's it. 4th. The fact that the Skins were trying every available option they could to get Thrash playing in the Seattle game should show you a little something about what they think of TJ. They'd rather have Thrash with a broken hand and a cast than Jacobs. Not a ringing endorsement.

Originally Posted by offiss

Bottom line Patton was a big time reciever for the 3 time super bowl champs, comes to us and disapear's. So now JJ is a big time reciever, kind of funny he wasen't that with the Giants, and spends a lot of time on the injured list, systems and QB's can make or break a WR, and that is why I haven't closed the book on Jacobs, when a proven player like Patton disapears in our offense then that should raise a red flag that there could be another problem besides just the reciever. The fact is if Patton didn't do what he did in New England you would be trashing him to, saying the same things about him as you have about Jacobs, Patton spent more time on the bench injured this season than Jacobs?

Disappears? He was on pace for the same type season. And don';t even try to compare injury histories. Jacobs is a walking hernia/abdominal strain/ankle injury while Patten has been hurt once. No comparison.

Originally Posted by offiss

Maybe Jacobs doesn't have what it takes who know's, but to make that assesment when all he has had is Brunell throwing him the ball just doesn't cut it for me. I seem to remember Coles wasen't overly enomoured with Brunell throwing him the ball either.

Brunell wasn't throwing to him actually because he sucks. Plain and simple. He has never shown anything ever in this league. To still support him in the face of insurmountable evidence is strange.

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by offiss

All of a sudden the Patton injury was a big blow to the offense? Makes me laugh as if he was doing anything before the injury, especially considering he had one of the best WR's in the NFL opposite him, normal rational would say that Patton should have been feasting on defenses who are out to shut down Moss, not the other way around.

Moss had a hard time getting the ball after Patton went down? No your right it didn't cross my mind because that didn't really happen.

Jacobs is worthless? Well so was Patton, I guess Moss didn't catch a ball after Patton went down? Who are you kidding? Moss continued his torid pace with jacobs in there as well, so this fantasy that some how Patton was providing this mysterious double coverage so Moss could rome the secondary with no, or single coverage is just pure fantasy.

on TJ, the coaches pointed out that he didn't play well in games and they didn't bench him because there simply wasn't anyone else to put in.

on patten, obviously you haven't done the math:
---BEFORE INJURY---
patten before: 2.4 for 24.1yards
jacobs before: 0.2 for 3.7yards
thrash before: 1.4 for 17yards
farris before: 0.1 for 2yards
Total before: 4.1 catches for 46.8 yards
---AFTER INJURY---
jacobs after: 1.3 for 9.5yards
thrash after: 0.2 for 5.1yards
Total after: 1.5 catches for 14.6 yards

moss averaged 104yards per game before patten went down,
and 73 yards afterwards.

that means that patten added 31(moss) + 32.3(others) yards and 2.5catches of WR offense per game.

and if you think the TEs and RBs made up some of that ground you'd also be dead wrong, cooleys numbers went down, portis's receiving stats went way down and sellers production died too.
---TEs---
Cooley before: 4.6catches for 52.1yards
cooley after: 4catches for 44.7yards

royal before: 1 for 5.2
royal after: 1.3 for 9.7

sellers before: 1.2 for 7.2 and 6 TDs
sellers after: 0.2 for 0.8 and 2 TDs

other TEs before: 0.2 for 2
other TEs after: 0.1 for 1.6

---RBs---
portis before: 2.3 for 18.1
portis after: 1.3 for 6.6

betts before: 0.9 for 8.2
betts after: 0.7 for 4

rock before: 0 for 0
rock after: 0.2 for 2.6

That means that passing production for WRs fell off by 63 yards per game, TEs by 10 yards (and a LOT of TDs), and RBs by 13 yards... that's a difference of 86 yards every game.

of course brunell's clutch play down the stretch :P also hurt, but patten's impact is the primary factor in a reduced passing game (moss's numbers immediately fell and were consistantly low until an outburst in the 2nd giants game).

[That Guy]

wow, gusbus's thoughts on WRs are almost identical to mine and sociofan, in your #2 analysis, you listed torry holt, but i'm pretty sure he's a #1 and bruce is the aging #2 there

[offiss]

Originally Posted by That Guy

on TJ, the coaches pointed out that he didn't play well in games and they didn't bench him because there simply wasn't anyone else to put in.

on patten, obviously you haven't done the math:
---BEFORE INJURY---
patten before: 2.4 for 24.1yards
jacobs before: 0.2 for 3.7yards
thrash before: 1.4 for 17yards
farris before: 0.1 for 2yards
Total before: 4.1 catches for 46.8 yards
---AFTER INJURY---
jacobs after: 1.3 for 9.5yards
thrash after: 0.2 for 5.1yards
Total after: 1.5 catches for 14.6 yards

moss averaged 104yards per game before patten went down,
and 73 yards afterwards.

that means that patten added 31(moss) + 32.3(others) yards and 2.5catches of WR offense per game.

and if you think the TEs and RBs made up some of that ground you'd also be dead wrong, cooleys numbers went down, portis's receiving stats went way down and sellers production died too.
---TEs---
Cooley before: 4.6catches for 52.1yards
cooley after: 4catches for 44.7yards

royal before: 1 for 5.2
royal after: 1.3 for 9.7

sellers before: 1.2 for 7.2 and 6 TDs
sellers after: 0.2 for 0.8 and 2 TDs

other TEs before: 0.2 for 2
other TEs after: 0.1 for 1.6

---RBs---
portis before: 2.3 for 18.1
portis after: 1.3 for 6.6

betts before: 0.9 for 8.2
betts after: 0.7 for 4

rock before: 0 for 0
rock after: 0.2 for 2.6

That means that passing production for WRs fell off by 63 yards per game, TEs by 10 yards (and a LOT of TDs), and RBs by 13 yards... that's a difference of 86 yards every game.

of course brunell's clutch play down the stretch :P also hurt, but patten's impact is the primary factor in a reduced passing game (moss's numbers immediately fell and were consistantly low until an outburst in the 2nd giants game).

The best point I guess I can make is this, who was singing Pattons praises before he was hurt, most of the questions were whats wrong with him, he's not performing like he did in New England. Now if Patton was such a big deal to the passing game, why do we have post after post, and thread after thread on our need for a #2 WR? Obviously we have one already on our roster in Patton, maybe the thread should read who's going to be our #3 reciever. Either Patton is the goods, or he is not. I do beleive right before Patton was hurt he made a comment about his lack of use in our offense, for what ever that is worth.

If we dump Jacobs so be it, although I don't really know if his failure so far is all his fault but it could really be, I don't know for sure, obviously judging him by his production he's a big bust, and maybe he is, and probably defiently as far as we are concerned.

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by offiss

The best point I guess I can make is this, who was singing Pattons praises before he was hurt, most of the questions were whats wrong with him, he's not performing like he did in New England. Now if Patton was such a big deal to the passing game, why do we have post after post, and thread after thread on our need for a #2 WR? Obviously we have one already on our roster in Patton, maybe the thread should read who's going to be our #3 reciever. Either Patton is the goods, or he is not. I do beleive right before Patton was hurt he made a comment about his lack of use in our offense, for what ever that is worth.

If we dump Jacobs so be it, although I don't really know if his failure so far is all his fault but it could really be, I don't know for sure, obviously judging him by his production he's a big bust, and maybe he is, and probably defiently as far as we are concerned.

cause patten didn't seem to be productive and individually he really wasn't (and an upgrade to production while also allowing the skins to cover for injury and provide 3 good WRs can't hurt). When you look at the numbers though the overall impact is pretty big. The only play I actually remember from patten was that 40-50yard PI call he got... either way we do need more talent there since we saw how good our other options really were.

As for jacobs, his numbers are bad, he's lack of history of production means no one bothers planning for him, and after he stinks up a game (oakland) he says things like "one of their CBs runs a 4.4 and the other a 4.2, what do you expect me to do?" There's just no killer instinct there besides the injury history. That's not the only excuse he's made either, but its the one I remember the best.

[FRPLG]

Is it me or does Randle El stick out like a sore thumb on the list? He isn't the biggest name but he definitely has the biggest upside for the money. A good WR who has suceeded in an offense similar to ours. He has speed, athleticism and looks to be one fo those guys who just gets the job done. I would be stunned if he isn't on the top of the Skins wish list. He seems like he fits perfectly into what Gibbs likes to do. Does anyone know if he blocks any good?

[Sociofan]

This year's production for Randell-El:

Year Team G Rec Yds Y/G Avg Lng YAC 1stD TD
2005-06 Pittsburgh 16 35 558 34.9 15.9 63 5.7 23 1

His production started to tail off although he's never had more than 47 catches (his first year). As much as he's been talked about, I expected to see higher output. And this was supposed to be his year having been moved to the number 2 spot with Burress going to the NYG. He does have good return numbers, but that would be better suited for a #3 or #4 receiver. If he is not too expensive and Patten comes back strong, he might be worth it, but not as a number 2.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by Sociofan

This year's production for Randell-El:

Year Team G Rec Yds Y/G Avg Lng YAC 1stD TD
2005-06 Pittsburgh 16 35 558 34.9 15.9 63 5.7 23 1

His production started to tail off although he's never had more than 47 catches (his first year). As much as he's been talked about, I expected to see higher output. And this was supposed to be his year having been moved to the number 2 spot with Burress going to the NYG. He does have good return numbers, but that would be better suited for a #3 or #4 receiver. If he is not too expensive and Patten comes back strong, he might be worth it, but not as a number 2.

What are you looking for out of a WR2 or WR3? I am not looking for a guy to catch 70 balls. Give me who gets the job done. Notice 23 or his 35 catches were for 1st downs. That is pretty good. Pittsburg is much like us. They pound the ball. There WR2 isn't going to get a bunch of balls unless he is a WR1 at the WR2 spot like Burress was. I think a core of Moss/Patten/Randle EL is significantly better than what we has this year. It even allows us an injury and we still have two legitimate athletes at the spot.

[FRPLG]

This si Scounting Inc's. notes on Randle El.

Not a true speed receiver, but he has exceptional foot quickness with and without the ball in his hands. He shows excellent quickness to beat press coverage in the slot. He is excellent working the middle of the field from the slot. Can avoid LB's in line and find the voids across the middle. Solid route runner that show good quickness getting out of his routes. He is a playmaker with the ball in his hands. Have to get him the ball quickly and he can make a play. Will weave, dart and jump cut to avoid. He is a slippery receiver that is extremely tough to bring down in the open field. Small receiver, but he shows the toughness to catch in traffic. Gives good blocking effort, but he lacks size and can get over-powered at times.

Sounds like a good WR2/3 for us. Won't demand the highest prfoile or money and can do some things with the ball. he does have some issues but so will any guy we are talking about as a WR2/3.

[MTK]

Jeez, nobody on this list really jumps out at me as a must have kinda guy. Gibbs and co. have some homework to do.

[Big C]

lloyd will probably be tendered, might get 1st round tender

[Hog1]

I don't know if he is our guy, but Randall El is a "party" on a trick play. You know Joe has to like that