Has Bugel lost it?

[Longtimefan]

Originally Posted by davy

I don't know what you guys think but I'm seriously concerned that Bugel has had 3 offseasons now to find and develop some decent young offensive line guys and appears to have failed miserably.

I keep hearing that everybody is happy with the back-ups but I've yet to see anything on the field to suggest that anybody can step in without a significant drop-off in performance.

Am I being too hasty?
Am I putting too much blame on Bugel?

I know good offensive linemen don't grow on trees but I hoped for better than what we seem to have at the moment.

It could be that you are being a little too hasty, and you are right when you say good linemen don't grow on trees. We can't expect to have OL men in backup positions with all the capabilities of starters because if they did they would be starters. Back-up OL men are like relief pitchers in baseball they don't have 100 plus pitches in their arms. We probably have enough depth as long as all our starters are not out at the same time, So far we've only seen the back-up's all playing together not replacing an individual starter who may go down, so I'm going to hold serve on the back-up OL until I see them perform under different circumstances. I have the utmost confidence in Bugel, he and Jim Hannifan were the best two to ever come through here.

[JWsleep]

I remember hearing that Dock slimmed down to allow him to pull and move better in Saunders offense (sorry--can't remember where I heard it. Maybe DOck talking to Larry Michaels on skins.com?).

The o-line is one of the team's strenghts, IMO. But look--Wilson and Molinaro were 6th rounders. Not everyone is Joe Jacoby. We'll see, because no doubt one or more backup guys are going to see action in regular games this year--it's the nature of the business. I have faith in Buges. But it's Saunders offense now, not Gibbs. The blocking schemes are different, so it'll take some time. We've only had ONE PRESEASON GAME, folks!

[backrow]

Originally Posted by davy

I don't know what you guys think but I'm seriously concerned that Bugel has had 3 offseasons now to find and develop some decent young offensive line guys and appears to have failed miserably.

I keep hearing that everybody is happy with the back-ups but I've yet to see anything on the field to suggest that anybody can step in without a significant drop-off in performance.

Am I being too hasty?
Am I putting too much blame on Bugel?

I know good offensive linemen don't grow on trees but I hoped for better than what we seem to have at the moment.

Davy: Expressing concern that we've failed miserably. See last year's 10-6 (11 if you count the PO win) record. That is not failure.

Davy: Has Buges lost it? No

Davy: Is there a drop-off in performance in back-ups? Yes, of course, that's why they back-up!

Davy: Am I being too hasty? No. As this thread has said, just look at CPs production last year, and our QB stood in there most of the time.

Davy: Am I putting too much blame on Bugel? Probably. A Joe Jacoby comes around maybe only once in life. (I saw Gibbs V1, and the original Hogs since I'm old!) Now, all 32 NFL teams scouting departments have "Joe Jacoby" on their radar and are searching him out.

It starts with the FO finding and signing the talent. HOF Coach Gibbs, and Coach Saunders have to get the offensive concept into their heads. Coach Bugel has to coach "away" old habits, and instill better techniques for the player to perform in those offensive concepts. The player and those around him then have to have the heart and skill to produce. A lot of those variables Coach Bugel doesn't have control over. It's kind of like the old Basketball addage: "You can't teach height!". It's like that in FB as well.


Davy: I hoped for better.

I hoped for better as well, but it takes a commodity we call "time". I was satisfied with the results last year, and I expect even better this year.

Davy: Expressing concern over the "moment". What??? Why worry? It's one PS practice game! We've got sixteen "real" weeks, and a couple more practice games. That my friend is the "time".

[#56fanatic]

Buges is still one of the best O-line coaches in the game. he has taken a confidence stricken, technique lacking o line and brought back the confidence we use to see back in the day. He is a motivator, those guys will run through fire for him. Plus the improvement of Dockery is a tribute to Buges. As far as backups, I think Molinaro is the only one on the team that he has coached. Most of the backups are new because the ones that were here when he got here stunk.

[djdunick]

I agree with another one of the posts that Bugel still is a great O-line coach but maybe his influence with Gibbs and upper management isn't very great. You saw how the offensive production plummeted last year when Randy Thomas went out. The Skins set a record for lowest yards in a playoff win. They should've learned their lesson but chose only to go after position players in free agency which surprised me greatly. Dockery is Ok but he's not a pro-bowler.

The O-line backups looked pathetic on Sunday against the Bengals 2nd string and this is an area that they should've put a priority on in the offseason especially with an older quarterback who is more prone to injury. Maybe go after 1 position player and concentrate on getting at least one solid backup on the O-line.

[Defensewins]

NO, Bugel has not lost it.

The problem is for ten years Snydratto drafted terribly after the second round. They would do well with 1st and second round picks, but NOTHING after that. You can not develop quality depth at any position when your later round picks suck and get cut year after year.

In Bugels first term Bethard/Casserly found OL gems everywhere:

1) In Bugels first year Bethard/Casserly drafted M. May and R. Grimm (1st & 3rd round), then signed as undrafted F.A. rookies Joe Jacoby and Jeff Bosic. 4/5 of our line came in one offseason.

Raleigh McKenzie (11th round) and Ed Simmons (6th round) were great backups and ended up becoming great starters.
Call these lower picks lucky or smart.
We need to maxmize our draft picks for cheap depth.

FRPLG-
Back in the day Gibbs stashed QB's and other positions on IR. but I do not recall Gibbs ever stashing an offensive lineman of any significance on IR. They went out and found great players.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by Defensewins

1) In Bugels first year Bethard/Casserly drafted M. May and R. Grimm (1st & 3rd round), then signed as undrafted F.A. rookies Joe Jacoby and Jeff Bosic. 4/5 of our line came in one offseason.

Raleigh McKenzie (11th round) and Ed Simmons (6th round) were great backups and ended up becoming great starters.
Call these lower picks lucky or smart.
We need to maxmize our draft picks for cheap depth.

Excellent point. And don't forget Mark Schlereth -- another late round gem.

Sometimes I wonder whether that was really great scouting and a demonstration of Beathard's keen eye for spotting talent, or was it just the luck of the draw? Just think of the one-in-a-million shot the Patriots had by taking one of the best quarterbacks in the league in the 6th round!

I guess it's a combination of both. The stars were certainly aligned for the Redskins throughout the 80's. But Beathard was one of best at his job.

[SmootSmack]

By the way, have you seen Schlereth's daughter? She's no Ramona but still cute

DailyCeleb.com...

[offiss]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

Excellent point. And don't forget Mark Schlereth -- another late round gem.

Sometimes I wonder whether that was really great scouting and a demonstration of Beathard's keen eye for spotting talent, or was it just the luck of the draw? Just think of the one-in-a-million shot the Patriots had by taking one of the best quarterbacks in the league in the 6th round!

I guess it's a combination of both. The stars were certainly aligned for the Redskins throughout the 80's. But Beathard was one of best at his job.

Beathard made those type of picks everywhere he went, he was one of the all time great talent evaluaters, Gibbs now that he has total control on personel is finding out that drafting late is much more than just making a selection, you here him constantly say how he believes we will really find some big surprises from these late round picks, of coarse that used to happen under Beathard but it hasen't happened yet for him. Espy is the first player under Gibbs to really have a chance to be that kind of player.

[Defensewins]

Originally Posted by offiss

Beathard made those type of picks everywhere he went, he was one of the all time great talent evaluaters, Gibbs now that he has total control on personel is finding out that drafting late is much more than just making a selection, you here him constantly say how he believes we will really find some big surprises from these late round picks, of coarse that used to happen under Beathard but it hasen't happened yet for him. Espy is the first player under Gibbs to really have a chance to be that kind of player.

RB Jessie Lumsden looks good so far. He could develop into a good player.

[MTK]

As a unit, the backup OL did not look very good against the Bengals.

But that doesn't mean individually they aren't capable of filling in. I'm not sure we really know what we have yet as far as the backups are concerned.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

As a unit, the backup OL did not look very good against the Bengals.

But that doesn't mean individually they aren't capable of filling in. I'm not sure we really know what we have yet as far as the backups are concerned.

This is a good post. When the 1st team came out of the game, the entire starting offensive line went out and they put in 5 backups and Todd Collins at QB. The line was a freakin turnstile, but there were so many rushers coming through I couldn't really recognize which individual linemen were having trouble and which ones were holding their own.

If you put Mike Pucillo on a line, subbing in for Rabach and playing in between Samuels, Dockery, Thomas, and Jansen, I bet Pucillo holds up just fine. Tough to evaluate the line just yet. I need to see more in the preseason before I judge it.

Incidentally, Todd Collins did nothing to redeem himself the other night, but I definitely need to reserve judgment on him too. If he played behind the 1st team offensive line the story might be completely different. He was getting rushed so damn much I don't know what we can expect him to do. He made a few boneheaded decisions like trying to ditch the ball and getting it picked by a DE. And then getting sacked in the end zone. But a lot of that blame goes to the line too, it's hard to fault Collins too much. If Brunell were in there for that bull rush, the only thing he could have done better is gotten rid of the ball a bit better. It's not like Brunell or Campbell would have done much positive if a rush like that came in their face every down. I'm reserving judgment on everyone at this point.

[firstdown]

As I said in another thread if most where like me watching the game I was watching the line as a whole. Only a few of those guys are going to make the team and if two are playing poorly (missing assignments etc) it will make the whole unit look bad. The coaches are going to hand pick the few that look good and plug them into (when needed) a solid group of linemen. I would think with the three (Bugel, Saunders, Gibbs) if they saw a problem with the backups they would have addressed the problem.

[MightyJoeGibbs]

The thread title at first made me think he had a panty rade at an old folks home. Buge's your sly dog.

[Dogtag]

Has Bugel lost it? NO!!!

Is this an "I'm Bored" topic?