Disgusted with Bonds?

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

I would agree with you if "barry and his friends" weren't half of the league's players. Kicking a few cheating people out of any sport helps save the integrity but when the problem is far beyond a few then you are talking about totally destroying the game entirely. I am not excusing anyone's actions. I am simply trying to get you to realize the reality of the situation. There is no way they can simply kick one guy out without confronting the real notion that the problem was considerably widespread and would have to do something similar to all cheaters. Maybe that is the way to go but they need to be ready for some long and lean years in baseball if they start really cleaning the game up that way. I would think they would rather simply let the testing wash those guys out and save the game that way. That solution presents issues like Bonds breaking the record but over all it is better than basically flushing decades records and players stats down the drain and saying to everyone "Our game was a farce for years".

I do think baseball has a better grip on this, and you can tell that they do when players go from being an all star to being a mediocre at best player because the testing is more difficult. I also beleive that Clemens waits to play because he can take roids, get all the strength and then cruise to the end of the season without a worry of testing positive, all the while collecting his 20+ million paycheck. Now, I am not saying it's still not happening. It is...but the ones that are are doing it with designer steroids that they think won't be caught. When Palmiero went down, everyone got scared. Only the ones that NEED it, and NEED it to acheive something still do.

I'm not really saying it's the integrity of the game...it is, but not really...it's the fact that here is a known roid head going after a great man, and a great player that busted his ass to own this record. It's not right that a cheater will pass him.
The integrity of the game has been hurt for a long time, they are on the way back, but they are still WAY FAR OFF. Remember the league allowing interleague play to get fans back? That was a black eye to the integrity of the game too.
Obviously, nothing is going to be done about this, but I hope he gets the little * next to his record.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by jsarno

I do think baseball has a better grip on this, and you can tell that they do when players go from being an all star to being a mediocre at best player because the testing is more difficult. I also beleive that Clemens waits to play because he can take roids, get all the strength and then cruise to the end of the season without a worry of testing positive, all the while collecting his 20+ million paycheck. Now, I am not saying it's still not happening. It is...but the ones that are are doing it with designer steroids that they think won't be caught. When Palmiero went down, everyone got scared. Only the ones that NEED it, and NEED it to acheive something still do.

I'm not really saying it's the integrity of the game...it is, but not really...it's the fact that here is a known roid head going after a great man, and a great player that busted his ass to own this record. It's not right that a cheater will pass him.
The integrity of the game has been hurt for a long time, they are on the way back, but they are still WAY FAR OFF. Remember the league allowing interleague play to get fans back? That was a black eye to the integrity of the game too.
Obviously, nothing is going to be done about this, but I hope he gets the little * next to his record.

I tend to agree with a lot of what you say here. I don't want Bonds to break the record anymore than you do. I would love for baseball to be able to making sweeping eliminations of records and cheaters but honestly it would kill the game and ultimately I think they can clean it up and get the game back on track but with a few a sacrifices. Crappy sacrifices for sure but ones that will give them a chance to get the game back.

The bigger problem is how did the game get like this? Where the only options going forward both suck? I go back to the way the game is operated at aleague management level and wonder when or if they will ever figuire out it is the root problem behind their struggles.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

I tend to agree with a lot of what you say here. I don't want Bonds to break the record anymore than you do. I would love for baseball to be able to making sweeping eliminations of records and cheaters but honestly it would kill the game and ultimately I think they can clean it up and get the game back on track but with a few a sacrifices. Crappy sacrifices for sure but ones that will give them a chance to get the game back.

The bigger problem is how did the game get like this? Where the only options going forward both suck? I go back to the way the game is operated at aleague management level and wonder when or if they will ever figuire out it is the root problem behind their struggles.

I think the only way to stop this is not to erase records..but to ban Bonds from baseball barring an investigation...the investigation could take as long as 3 years...oops. That won't take away his numbers, but that will stop him from beating a great man.

[firstdown]

If no one can prove Bonds took roids then there is nothing that can be done. Its that simple.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by firstdown

If no one can prove Bonds took roids then there is nothing that can be done. Its that simple.

Gotta love it when I type paragraphs and paragraphs, and then someone comes along and posts a one-sentence post that carries more weight and relevance than I ever could. Well said, firstdown. That is the bottom line, PROOF.

[dmek25]

first, let me say i do not like Barry Bonds. but, he was the last of the great drug abusers from the late 90's and early 2000's that is still around. so he takes the all of the frustration that the public would really like to lay on the McGuire's and the Sosa's of mlb, that are now retired

[Hog1]

I personally do not know of a "clean" way out of this. However, I would not allow bonds to achieve the honor until an investigation in the steroid is blah, blah, doubletalk, blah, complete.
You just.........can't. In spite of what's easy, convenient, somtimes you MUST do the hard thing. The RIGHT thing. Stand up and be counted MLB. In the long run, I think more good than bad will come out of where the the fans are concerned.
Nuremberg trials for MLB? If not they can drown in their own vomit.

[MonkFan4Life]

I'm not disgusted with Barry Bonds, no the's his body his choice. Was he wrong ? YES. I actually like to watch the guy hit. I remember when he was going for McQuire's single season record and his eye for pitches amazed me. Steroids or not the guy is a damn fine ball player. Baseball has always been a sport of cheats to me, just my opinion. Now I'm not condoning what the man did because it was wrong but what honestly put me on Bonds' side was that when McGuire and Sosa saved the game of baseball along with Cal Ripken and his Iron Man streak thing no one thought about asking about roids. As soon as Bonds got close to the holiest of holy's in Ruth's record people got scared because the numbers that make baseball what it is were being threatened. I kept hearing about how Ruth did it the right way at a time when you had teams payed off to throw the WORLD EFFIN SERIES ! I'm not saying there's a guarantee that Ruth cheated it's just that Bonds meant nothing until he got close to Ruth. THEN everone got conciences and wanted to clean things up. Conseco comes out with a book and there you have it.

Baseball did it to themselves, Chicks dig the long ball right ? I can't wait for Bonds to break the record, I'll be cheering right along with alot of the fans in San Fran because everywhere else it wouldn't be the "right" thing to do. If Hank isn't there, so what. Does he need him there?

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by MonkFan4Life

I'm not disgusted with Barry Bonds, no the's his body his choice. Was he wrong ? YES. I actually like to watch the guy hit. I remember when he was going for McQuire's single season record and his eye for pitches amazed me. Steroids or not the guy is a damn fine ball player. Baseball has always been a sport of cheats to me, just my opinion. Now I'm not condoning what the man did because it was wrong but what honestly put me on Bonds' side was that when McGuire and Sosa saved the game of baseball along with Cal Ripken and his Iron Man streak thing no one thought about asking about roids. As soon as Bonds got close to the holiest of holy's in Ruth's record people got scared because the numbers that make baseball what it is were being threatened. I kept hearing about how Ruth did it the right way at a time when you had teams payed off to throw the WORLD EFFIN SERIES ! I'm not saying there's a guarantee that Ruth cheated it's just that Bonds meant nothing until he got close to Ruth. THEN everone got conciences and wanted to clean things up. Conseco comes out with a book and there you have it.

Baseball did it to themselves, Chicks dig the long ball right ? I can't wait for Bonds to break the record, I'll be cheering right along with alot of the fans in San Fran because everywhere else it wouldn't be the "right" thing to do. If Hank isn't there, so what. Does he need him there?

Good post. The real shame, as you point out, is that Bonds never even needed to do this. He was one of the greatest players ever long before this record. And he's not the first "bad guy" in baseball, not by a long shot

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Good post. The real shame, as you point out, is that Bonds never even needed to do this. He was one of the greatest players ever long before this record. And he's not the first "bad guy" in baseball, not by a long shot

I think a lot of players use the roids to help rehab from injuries. Assuming he's on the roids, he's probably reaping the benefits right now more than any other time, because they're probably helping keep him in good enough condition to withstand injury and keep him in decent enough shape at age 42.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

I think a lot of players use the roids to help rehab from injuries. Assuming he's on the roids, he's probably reaping the benefits right now more than any other time, because they're probably helping keep him in good enough condition to withstand injury and keep him in decent enough shape at age 42.

If he had retired after the 1998 season-I think most agree up to that point he was clean right?-do you think he'd have been a Hall of Famer? First ballot?

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

If he had retired after the 1998 season-I think most agree up to that point he was clean right?-do you think he'd have been a Hall of Famer? First ballot?

Beyond any doubt.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

If he had retired after the 1998 season-I think most agree up to that point he was clean right?-do you think he'd have been a Hall of Famer? First ballot?

Yeah definitely HOF based on his pre roids resume alone.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

If he had retired after the 1998 season-I think most agree up to that point he was clean right?-do you think he'd have been a Hall of Famer? First ballot?

Likely not 1st ballot. He would have hit 411 homers at that point, been well under .300 for an average (he's .299 right now). He would have likely not been first ballot because the sports writers hate him...don't think that keeps a man out? Talk to Jim Rice. (also short longevity) They have to like you or you are kept off. Sure he would have made the hall, but not a first ballot HOFer. His numbers were too good to ignore at that point.

That being said,
He was a great player before he took the roids...a true 5 tool player, and one of the best all around players to ever play. He tainted his own legacy.
Bonds once argued that steriods can't make a man hit a ball. I have to disagree. From 2000-2004 he batted averaged .341 a season...his career high before steriods? .336. His 2nd career high? .312. He AVERAGED .341 for 5 years. That is a clear indicator that it can help. It helped Bonds by at least .50 points.
He averaged 31.6 homers a season before steroids. 45.4 from 98-04 and 06 and he was injured in 98 and 06 for a massive part of those seasons (05 and 07 only played 29 games total to this point) and he averaged only 135 games per season from 99-06 (not including 05 even though I should, nor am I counting 07). He played in 150 or more games 8 times before steriods...only 1 time since, and he's still putting up massive numbers at such an old age???? So steroids has proven to help a player jump .50+ points in average, and will help them get at least 15 more homers a season. Add those numbers to any of your favorite current players, and I guarentee it makes them an all star if not an MVP. So yes, it can help a players average. It can help all the numbers except play in 150+ games a season consistantly.

[Hog1]

Is that what you teach your kids? or will? It's NOT ok to cheat except?