thread of reason

offiss · 10-04-2004, 04:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Only cool heads allowed to post here.

No posts about Ramsey needs to start, Portis is a bust, the playcalling stinks, the ref in the booth needs to be fired, cut this guy, cut that guy, etc.

Call me crazy but I don't think we're far from turning this thing around. I think guys are pressing a bit right now. They're not 100% comfortable in the offensive system and they're thinking too much about assignments/responsibilities and not just playing football.

The first quarter of the season is over and I know 1-3 isn't pretty, but, we still have 3/4 of the season to go. If we can improve just one game per quarter we can finish still finish 10-6. There's still alot of ball to be played, and alot of room for improvement.

Cutting or benching guys and flip flopping starting QB's isn't the answer and Gibbs isn't going to panic and pull crap like this, so let's just forget about that nonsense and worry about the team mastering the system and improving the best they can week to week.

It's no secret I am high on Ramsey, I also know that unless Brunell get's hurt, Ramsey won't see the field, the problem I have is, Ramsey has the least amount of expierence, and the least amount of work in this new system, 1 that a seasoned veteran like Brunell is having difficulties mastering, and he's judged more critically than Brunell, I also know bringing in Ramsey now doesn't mean instant victory for us, he will have to go through the same growing pain's as Brunell, but he showed us against the Giant's that he can get the ball up and down the field in a hurry, yes he may make a mistake here or there, he's young, but he also gives us a better opportunity to score point's, Brunell was brought here for his expierence, but he's really just like a rookie out there because of the fact he has to learn a whole new system, I think the learning curve would be the same for Ramsey, and Ramsey's upside is much greater than Brunell's, Brunell was alway's a good playmaker, I never looked at him as a great passer, and with his leg's giving way to age, his playmaking abilities are on the way down, will he get better than he is now? Yes, but is he worth the effort at his age? Not considering he's 1 and 3 so far, I thought that was why we brought him here, to step in and win immediatly? With that said, I don't see any reason why this team won't, or can't, turn this thing around quickly, we have to much talent.

LRT · 10-04-2004, 07:34 AM

I know I don't post here often, but here are a couple of points I want to make as a long-time Skins fan...

1. As others have said, this is a rough time and there are a lot of problems, but patience and perseverance are the answer, not quick fixes.

2. We have a lot of problems, but they are fixable and we have already fixed a number of problems this season, such as botched center-quarterback exchanges. I have every confidence that we can work through these, too.

3. One of the big problems I think we're facing is that we all underestimated how bad the Skins have been as a team and caught up in the hype of how well certain players have performed in the past and in other places. A collection of good individual players doesn't make a good team. During the first Gibbs era, we rarely had the best players, but we usually had the best team. Building a real team, not to mention a winning team, takes time and effort, and that's what we're suffering through now. Despite the difficult slogging ahead, I'd still bet on at least 8-8 and a deep playoff run next season.

4. As for Portis, I think he is still learning a system that requires a back to think and wait for holes rather than just zoom off. That takes time. And, look at his age! The guy is a kid. Given the new system, I'd consider him practically a rookie. Now, that doesn't mean that he may not need to "ride the pine" a bit if he can't get the fumbling under control (and the fumbling seems to me to be related to his mishandling of the running scheme). However, I'm still glad we have and still expect good things from him.

5. As for Brunell, I do agree that he doesn't seem to be the same quarterback he used to be in Jacksonville. I think he's reached the point in his career where he may need to make some adjustments in his play to meet his ability. I also think he's still trying to master a new system along with the rest of the offense. Benching him would, I think, risk sending the wrong message to the team and wouldn't be Gibbs' style. However, it might be a good idea to start working Ramsey into some games to get him ready in case a change has to be made later.

6. If our defense is as good as it is with Arrington out, injuries on the DL and Taylor still playing like a rookie (mixing the bad with the good), how good will they be when we're healthy and Taylor has a bit more experience?

juggernaunt · 10-04-2004, 07:39 AM

even if were a season away from making some stide. were in the mentality at washington of 1 step foreward 2 steps back. we over payed for free agents again. i never wanted portis, i think we would have been better w/ draft picks. tell you know trde samuels in the offseason cause he'll eat up what room under the cap we will have...... until VINNY CERRATO goes dont expect anything from the redskins.... i'm begining 2 think its not the couches its VINNY. remember our only playoff team in the last 10 years was w/o CERRATO ..... maybe its not synder or the coaches its VINNY and his notalent picking GM skills.

Hogskin · 10-04-2004, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by juggernaunt

even if were a season away from making some stide. were in the mentality at washington of 1 step foreward 2 steps back. we over payed for free agents again. i never wanted portis, i think we would have been better w/ draft picks. tell you know trde samuels in the offseason cause he'll eat up what room under the cap we will have...... until VINNY CERRATO goes dont expect anything from the redskins.... i'm begining 2 think its not the couches its VINNY. remember our only playoff team in the last 10 years was w/o CERRATO ..... maybe its not synder or the coaches its VINNY and his notalent picking GM skills.

Looks like you totally missed the point of this thread. Not surprising that you don't begin to understand what it takes to develop a team under new management. (One key ingredient is PATIENCE!!) If you had been controlling things in New England a few short years ago, you would have run Belichick out of town along with half of the team that is now the powerhouse of the NFL. Real nice job.

Matty, please save the above post so we can have a big chuckle next year.

SmootSmack · 10-04-2004, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by juggernaunt

i'm begining 2 think its not the couches its VINNY.

Thank you juggernaut. Finally! I've been saying it all along to those of you demanding we get new furniture...it's not the couches!

hey if people are going to have fun with my typos. I might as well have fun with typos as well

MTK · 10-04-2004, 08:12 AM

I guess some people have missed the point of this thread.

oh well, sigh

Let's get back to putting together our weekly cut list!

MTK · 10-04-2004, 10:10 AM

I like how during the offseason we praise the moves we make, then once the season starts it's the personnel moves that are the problem and not the lack of execution on the field.

Why is any of this Vinny's fault? Gibbs hand picked guys like Portis and Brunell. So forgive me if I fail to see where Vinny is at fault here.

SmootSmack · 10-04-2004, 10:21 AM

I agree, Matty. I don't think Vinny has final say on any of the personnel moves anyway. He's just a glorified personal assistant these days

offiss · 10-04-2004, 12:44 PM

OK I will throw out a positive, Ron Warner has looked outstanding, he is quickly becoming our best linemen, I no he went down with an injury twice during the game, does anyone know his status?

And for the record, Gibb's has final say on all decision's, not just GM, Cerratto is nothing more than a figure head, who bounces idea's off Gibb's, Gibb's is responsible for all our off season moves, Brunell, and Portis, incl.

backrow · 10-04-2004, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I like how during the offseason we praise the moves we make.

Why is any of this Vinny's fault? Gibbs hand picked guys like Portis and Brunell.

I didn't praise the Brunell move. I blame the Brunell move!
I thought it was a bad move then.

I think we got value for value for Portis/Champ, but I didn't praise it! It thought Betts would be able to do it without a Portis! I still think that!

Ynot blame cousin vinnie? He is joined to LDS at the hip & thigh!

That Guy · 10-04-2004, 12:49 PM

warner and pierce have shown up... lemar and taylor, not so much right now...

MTK · 10-04-2004, 01:48 PM

Brunell is taking way too much heat for the offensive struggles right now.

At lunch I was listening to ESPN radio and a show called "The Heard" I think, well it was abuzz with talk over talk of how the game has passed Gibbs by, Brunell stinks, blah blah. It just made me laugh.

Hogskin · 10-04-2004, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Brunell is taking way too much heat for the offensive struggles right now.

At lunch I was listening to ESPN radio and a show called "The Heard" I think, well it was abuzz with talk over talk of how the game has passed Gibbs by, Brunell stinks, blah blah. It just made me laugh.

I love it, Matty. Gibbs comes here in 81, after a 6-10 season, after they won 24 of their 48 games in the previous 3 years. He went 0-5 to start the year. But somehow he managed to follow it up with 4 Super Bowls in the next 11 years. That was all fine and good.

Now, he comes back after a 5-11 season, after they only won 20 of their previous 48 games. He goes 1-3 (2-2 without the NFL-acknowledged official's errors), and that is an indication the game has passed him by.

BRILLIANT!!!!!

BRILLIANT!!!!!

I'm glad you were able to laugh at it. The great joy, though, will be getting the LAST laugh. I am hopeful and expectant that it will be coming to us.

SkinsRock · 10-04-2004, 04:15 PM

OK, I'll admit it, the game may have passed Gibbs by....BUT, Gibbs is the master of adjustments. I'm positive that even as we speak, he is already adjusting and adapting his coaching style and offense to the "new" NFL. It took him 5 games to do it the first time around, and this time he started out one win ahead of the curve. Needless to say, I was VERY dissappointed after yesterday's game, but I have the confidence that it will get better....soon (please!!!).

CrazyCanuck · 10-05-2004, 06:08 PM

I've finally calmed down and I think my head is now cool enough to post in this thread.

The way I see it - this team could very easily be 4-0. I'm sure most would agree with me. That's not to say that I think this team is elite, but I do think they are solid. Unfortunately with parity in the NFL, there are about 24 other teams in the same boat as the Skins.

When you are at this level your W-L will be ultimately be decided by how you do the "little things", and right now the Skins could not be worse in that department.

I really think if we can eliminate the turnovers and manage the clock a little better this team can go on a run and make the playoffs. But time is running out.

10-04-2004, 07:39 AM	#3
juggernaunt Camp Scrub Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 47	i do think your nuts even if were a season away from making some stide. were in the mentality at washington of 1 step foreward 2 steps back. we over payed for free agents again. i never wanted portis, i think we would have been better w/ draft picks. tell you know trde samuels in the offseason cause he'll eat up what room under the cap we will have...... until VINNY CERRATO goes dont expect anything from the redskins.... i'm begining 2 think its not the couches its VINNY. remember our only playoff team in the last 10 years was w/o CERRATO ..... maybe its not synder or the coaches its VINNY and his notalent picking GM skills.

10-04-2004, 10:21 AM	#8
SmootSmack Uncle Phil Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 45,256	I agree, Matty. I don't think Vinny has final say on any of the personnel moves anyway. He's just a glorified personal assistant these days __________________ You're So Vain...You Probably Think This Sig Is About You

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10-04-2004, 07:34 AM	#2
LRT Special Teams Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Springfield, VA Age: 59 Posts: 174	I know I don't post here often, but here are a couple of points I want to make as a long-time Skins fan... 1. As others have said, this is a rough time and there are a lot of problems, but patience and perseverance are the answer, not quick fixes. 2. We have a lot of problems, but they are fixable and we have already fixed a number of problems this season, such as botched center-quarterback exchanges. I have every confidence that we can work through these, too. 3. One of the big problems I think we're facing is that we all underestimated how bad the Skins have been as a team and caught up in the hype of how well certain players have performed in the past and in other places. A collection of good individual players doesn't make a good team. During the first Gibbs era, we rarely had the best players, but we usually had the best team. Building a real team, not to mention a winning team, takes time and effort, and that's what we're suffering through now. Despite the difficult slogging ahead, I'd still bet on at least 8-8 and a deep playoff run next season. 4. As for Portis, I think he is still learning a system that requires a back to think and wait for holes rather than just zoom off. That takes time. And, look at his age! The guy is a kid. Given the new system, I'd consider him practically a rookie. Now, that doesn't mean that he may not need to "ride the pine" a bit if he can't get the fumbling under control (and the fumbling seems to me to be related to his mishandling of the running scheme). However, I'm still glad we have and still expect good things from him. 5. As for Brunell, I do agree that he doesn't seem to be the same quarterback he used to be in Jacksonville. I think he's reached the point in his career where he may need to make some adjustments in his play to meet his ability. I also think he's still trying to master a new system along with the rest of the offense. Benching him would, I think, risk sending the wrong message to the team and wouldn't be Gibbs' style. However, it might be a good idea to start working Ramsey into some games to get him ready in case a change has to be made later. 6. If our defense is as good as it is with Arrington out, injuries on the DL and Taylor still playing like a rookie (mixing the bad with the good), how good will they be when we're healthy and Taylor has a bit more experience?

10-04-2004, 08:12 AM	#6
MTK \m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 52 Posts: 99,832	I guess some people have missed the point of this thread. oh well, sigh Let's get back to putting together our weekly cut list!

10-04-2004, 10:10 AM	#7
MTK \m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 52 Posts: 99,832	I like how during the offseason we praise the moves we make, then once the season starts it's the personnel moves that are the problem and not the lack of execution on the field. Why is any of this Vinny's fault? Gibbs hand picked guys like Portis and Brunell. So forgive me if I fail to see where Vinny is at fault here.

10-04-2004, 12:44 PM	#9
offiss Registered User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: sparta, new jersey [ northern jersey ] Age: 61 Posts: 3,097	OK I will throw out a positive, Ron Warner has looked outstanding, he is quickly becoming our best linemen, I no he went down with an injury twice during the game, does anyone know his status? And for the record, Gibb's has final say on all decision's, not just GM, Cerratto is nothing more than a figure head, who bounces idea's off Gibb's, Gibb's is responsible for all our off season moves, Brunell, and Portis, incl.

10-04-2004, 12:49 PM	#11
That Guy Living Legend Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: VA Age: 42 Posts: 17,620	warner and pierce have shown up... lemar and taylor, not so much right now...

10-04-2004, 01:48 PM	#12
MTK \m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 52 Posts: 99,832	Brunell is taking way too much heat for the offensive struggles right now. At lunch I was listening to ESPN radio and a show called "The Heard" I think, well it was abuzz with talk over talk of how the game has passed Gibbs by, Brunell stinks, blah blah. It just made me laugh.

10-04-2004, 04:15 PM	#14
SkinsRock Impact Rookie Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Crofton, MD Age: 55 Posts: 907	OK, I'll admit it, the game may have passed Gibbs by....BUT, Gibbs is the master of adjustments. I'm positive that even as we speak, he is already adjusting and adapting his coaching style and offense to the "new" NFL. It took him 5 games to do it the first time around, and this time he started out one win ahead of the curve. Needless to say, I was VERY dissappointed after yesterday's game, but I have the confidence that it will get better....soon (please!!!).

10-05-2004, 06:08 PM	#15
CrazyCanuck Serenity Now Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 2,008	I've finally calmed down and I think my head is now cool enough to post in this thread. The way I see it - this team could very easily be 4-0. I'm sure most would agree with me. That's not to say that I think this team is elite, but I do think they are solid. Unfortunately with parity in the NFL, there are about 24 other teams in the same boat as the Skins. When you are at this level your W-L will be ultimately be decided by how you do the "little things", and right now the Skins could not be worse in that department. I really think if we can eliminate the turnovers and manage the clock a little better this team can go on a run and make the playoffs. But time is running out.

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