How Much Longer until the NFL no longer does the national anthem?

[irish]

I wonder how many of these players voted in the last election? Kapernick couldn't be bothered which IMO makes his protest ring a bit hollow. I suspect less than 10% of these players actually voted so in some ways they are part of the problem not the solution.

How many of these players do anything to advance social justice and equality beyond taking a knee before a football game (which is the team's time not their own time)? I suspect that percentage is even lower than those who voted.

These players are willing to take a knee in protest before a game they are getting paid to attend but I doubt they would take a second of their own time to march in a protest or do something else to advance the cause of social justice and equality. This is 90% for show, 10% protest.

[SolidSnake84]

Originally Posted by irish

I wonder how many of these players voted in the last election? Kapernick couldn't be bothered which IMO makes his protest ring a bit hollow. I suspect less than 10% of these players actually voted so in some ways they are part of the problem not the solution.

How many of these players do anything to advance social justice and equality beyond taking a knee before a football game (which is the team's time not their own time)? I suspect that percentage is even lower than those who voted.

These players are willing to take a knee in protest before a game they are getting paid to attend but I doubt they would take a second of their own time to march in a protest or do something else to advance the cause of social justice and equality. This is 90% for show, 10% protest.

Not trying to throw gas on a fire or anything but you also have to figure that many players are not legally allowed to vote from past felony convictions, etc.,. Are there any non-citizen players in the NFL? I'm not saying illegal immigrant, I mean more of a permanent resident / visa, type person.

[rocnrik]

If you guys are going to call folks out on language I have been reading disgusting words on here for a while..the main word being COWBOYS...

[over the mountain]

I think teams trying to make it a "unity" thing are unnecessarily complicating things. Let players do what they want -- stand, kneel, sit. But I feel like its my white privilege showing when I say "meh, I just want to watch football and not all this other social PC crap" when that "other social PC crap" is very important to a lot of Americans.

Certainly social injustice is more important than football, but do I value football over injustice to others? An injustice that maybe 5% of me can relate to. I feel like I say I care but in words only. The moment it messes with my football or requires more than passing token words ..... meh, idk.

Complicated stuff. Much too complicated to be rationally discussed in the confines of a football game.

[spearhead05]

Speaking for my self I am having a hard time trying to figure out what the national anthem has to do with what anyone is protesting. To be honest the things that make the US a great place to live is the freedoms we have. I was born and raised in Miami Florida, my family came from Nicaragua and Cuba. I also have Native American in my family. My grandfather (a Cuban) fought for this country. My father was able to make a life for himself and our family because of the opportunities that this country has. That is why I stand for the flag. With that said I am not offended by people protesting in this peaceful manner, I just don't get why the anthem. There is injustice in this country and the world. The worlds history is stained with blood of the conquered and oppressed, but it is up to us as humans to stop and come together. I stand because I feel like standing I say the words because the colonist took the risk to stand up to tyranny and through all the death rose a country. This country is not perfect but it is up to us to teach our children about unity. Thanks for letting me speak guys HTTR

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by spearhead05

Speaking for my self I am having a hard time trying to figure out what the national anthem has to do with what anyone is protesting. To be honest the things that make the US a great place to live is the freedoms we have. I was born and raised in Miami Florida, my family came from Nicaragua and Cuba. I also have Native American in my family. My grandfather (a Cuban) fought for this country. My father was able to make a life for himself and our family because of the opportunities that this country has. That is why I stand for the flag. With that said I am not offended by people protesting in this peaceful manner, I just don't get why the anthem. There is injustice in this country and the world. The worlds history is stained with blood of the conquered and oppressed, but it is up to us as humans to stop and come together. I stand because I feel like standing I say the words because the colonist took the risk to stand up to tyranny and through all the death rose a country. This country is not perfect but it is up to us to teach our children about unity. Thanks for letting me speak guys HTTR

Great post...even though I disagree with the protest, I respect their right to do it. I really wish folks would do a little more listening than talking, typing and tweeting, etc

[Redskins_P]

Originally Posted by spearhead05

Speaking for my self I am having a hard time trying to figure out what the national anthem has to do with what anyone is protesting. To be honest the things that make the US a great place to live is the freedoms we have. I was born and raised in Miami Florida, my family came from Nicaragua and Cuba. I also have Native American in my family. My grandfather (a Cuban) fought for this country. My father was able to make a life for himself and our family because of the opportunities that this country has. That is why I stand for the flag. With that said I am not offended by people protesting in this peaceful manner, I just don't get why the anthem. There is injustice in this country and the world. The worlds history is stained with blood of the conquered and oppressed, but it is up to us as humans to stop and come together. I stand because I feel like standing I say the words because the colonist took the risk to stand up to tyranny and through all the death rose a country. This country is not perfect but it is up to us to teach our children about unity. Thanks for letting me speak guys HTTR

Good to see a fellow Nicaraguan (My mom is from there) on the warpath.

Great post too. I agree with everything you said.

[JoeRedskin]

Just to be clear:

https://gantdaily.com/2017/09/26/the...youre-at-work/

Also, if the protesting players' right to exercise free speech in the course of their employment is somehow "protected," what if a player stood during the Star-Spangled Banner, hand over heart but with the other hand, holding a sign that said "Only n****** refuse to stand for the USA," would his speech be protected as well? Or, is it only socially acceptable speech that provides immunity at work?

Personally, I think the whole protest is ridiculous in the sense that a bunch of privileged athletes are protesting b/c "America isn't perfect and bad stuff happens to some of us more than others." Whatever - is that really in doubt to a majority of Americans? I think not. However, knock yourself out.

Bottom line, I don't care what you do just so long as it doesn't interfere with my/our ability to take a moment - that your employers have given us, the fans - to honor the flag and our country.

[mredskins]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

Just to be clear:

https://gantdaily.com/2017/09/26/the...youre-at-work/

Also, if the protesting players' right to exercise free speech in the course of their employment is somehow "protected," what if a player stood during the Star-Spangled Banner, hand over heart but with the other hand, holding a sign that said "Only n****** refuse to stand for the USA," would his speech be protected as well? Or, is it only socially acceptable speech that provides immunity at work?

Personally, I think the whole protest is ridiculous in the sense that a bunch of privileged athletes are protesting b/c "America isn't perfect and bad stuff happens to some of us more than others." Whatever - is that really in doubt to a majority of Americans? I think not. However, knock yourself out.

Bottom line, I don't care what you do just so long as it doesn't interfere with my/our ability to take a moment - that your employers have given us, the fans - to honor the flag and our country.

It isn't interfering with your "moment", are they holding you down as they kneel?

[JoeRedskin]

That's why I said I don't care. As long as they allow for the quiet enjoyment of the moment by others, then sit, stand, kneel, etc. just don't do things that reasonable people would consider a distraction.

[rocnrik]

THINK ABOUT THIS!! IF a OWNER of a NFL team instructed his players to follow his view and they must KNEEL during anthem or get fired..do you think any players would stand? My point is Im not sure when it comes to GOD and Country that any NFL owner should tell his players what to do period..These are MULTI RICH WHITE MEN telling mostly BLACK players what to do...sounds familiar?? I am sick over all this and truly in my heart do not think these protest are going to change anything other than drive fans away from the sport..If all of this is over hatred towards Trump than use your energy to make damn sure next election EVERYBODY VOTES! I have decided not to watch the start of game and not get caught up in the drama..ask yourself this ..rather than to put the cameras on players protesting WHY not capture VETS and Fire fighters etc.. STANDING in HONOR of THE USA. I will tell you the media loves negative bad stuff..they would rather film a horrific event than prevent it.. Hopefully the NFL will wake up and realize they are hurting the sport.. There are a lot better ways to create change than this. all they are doing is driving away the audience. Just my take guys..PEACE

[SolidSnake84]

Originally Posted by rocnrik

THINK ABOUT THIS!! IF a OWNER of a NFL team instructed his players to follow his view and they must KNEEL during anthem or get fired..do you think any players would stand? My point is Im not sure when it comes to GOD and Country that any NFL owner should tell his players what to do period..These are MULTI RICH WHITE MEN telling mostly BLACK players what to do...sounds familiar?? I am sick over all this and truly in my heart do not think these protest are going to change anything other than drive fans away from the sport..If all of this is over hatred towards Trump than use your energy to make damn sure next election EVERYBODY VOTES! I have decided not to watch the start of game and not get caught up in the drama..ask yourself this ..rather than to put the cameras on players protesting WHY not capture VETS and Fire fighters etc.. STANDING in HONOR of THE USA. I will tell you the media loves negative bad stuff..they would rather film a horrific event than prevent it.. Hopefully the NFL will wake up and realize they are hurting the sport.. There are a lot better ways to create change than this. all they are doing is driving away the audience. Just my take guys..PEACE

I don't believe that any NFL owner owner can fire a player over the national anthem. It was Skip Bayliss or one of those guys who was talking about Jerry Jones' threats, and what it came down to is that they can only punish for things that are clear NFL rule violations. The NFL rules only state that the player must be technically on the field (that's why the steelers being in the tunnel obeyed the rule). It does not state that the player must stand.

So he said that if Jones fired someone over it, at a minimum you'd have the NFLPA get involved, probably a discrimination lawsuit, possible human rights violation (rights to peaceful protest/ free speech, etc?), and at worst case scenario Jerry could end up like Donald Sterling. He concluded by saying that there is a reason that no NFL owner has fired a player over the protest so far, because they know that they can't legally do it.

[mooby]

Originally Posted by SolidSnake84

I don't believe that any NFL owner owner can fire a player over the national anthem. It was Skip Bayliss or one of those guys who was talking about Jerry Jones' threats, and what it came down to is that they can only punish for things that are clear NFL rule violations. The NFL rules only state that the player must be technically on the field (that's why the steelers being in the tunnel obeyed the rule). It does not state that the player must stand.

So he said that if Jones fired someone over it, at a minimum you'd have the NFLPA get involved, probably a discrimination lawsuit, possible human rights violation (rights to peaceful protest/ free speech, etc?), and at worst case scenario Jerry could end up like Donald Sterling. He concluded by saying that there is a reason that no NFL owner has fired a player over the protest so far, because they know that they can't legally do it.

Or, you just cut the player and say it's for football reasons, and nobody bats an eye. That's how I would do it. But let's not pretend that's going to happen anyways, most players on the 53 earned that spot, and only the bottom 10 or so are in danger of being cut for any reason, and that's typically because they're not good enough anyways, or the team needs a roster spot for another player.

[SolidSnake84]

Originally Posted by mooby

Or, you just cut the player and say it's for football reasons, and nobody bats an eye. That's how I would do it. But let's not pretend that's going to happen anyways, most players on the 53 earned that spot, and only the bottom 10 or so are in danger of being cut for any reason, and that's typically because they're not good enough anyways, or the team needs a roster spot for another player.

But you bring up a good point. Only the bottom 10 or so could get cut at any time, and you could then claim it was "football reasons" or whatever and maybe they wouldn't push the issue. You bet your ass though people would see right through "football reasons" if Prescott kneeled on Sunday primetime, and then Monday was released by the cowboys. Even Jerry is not that stupid. He's calling the players bluffs and hoping that they won't kneel, because if they do, he is smart enough to realize that he can't do anything about it. The best thing the owners can do, is stay out of the protests until it all calms down.

[mike340]

Still can't believe that you get fined for altering the uniform in any way for any reason if Goodell doesn't want you to, but there's no fine for not respecting the flag or the national anthem. If first amendment rights allow the players to express themselves in relation to the flag, shouldn't it also apply to the uniform? At least in a a discrete way?
Or maybe the NFL uniform is a more important symbol than the flag and the national anthem...

(By the way, I'm with Giantone on the c... word. Never heard it used except as an incredible insult. As Leslie Nielsen knows, however, "beaver" is all right ;-)