Week 3: Giants at Redskins Game Thread

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by theJBexperience

I just can't get over that. How do you win the TO battle and still lose?

You gave up 3 un answerd TD's !

[Twilbert07]

Originally Posted by Giantone

You gave up 3 un answerd TD's !

McNabb will light up the Giants secondary next Sunday night. It all might not matter if the damned Cowboys keep on winning.

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by Twilbert07

McNabb will light up the Giants secondary next Sunday night. It all might not matter if the damned Cowboys keep on winning.

He might and he might not I don't know but one thing I do know.....you don't know either.

[Monkeydad]

Originally Posted by jsarno

I told you...had nothing to do with the O...it was the conservative play calling!

Yep, Gibbs shouldn't have rubbed that butter all over Portis' gloves at halftime. Fire the coach.

We would've been fine with the playcalling in the second half if we weren't dropping the ball. Portis forgot how to catch AND take a handoff, Campbell fumbled a snap, Sellers dropped a potential game-tying TD (ask Dawkins if Sellers can run over anyone) and we just made too many mistakes to win.

[Monkeydad]

Although, I was calling for a Sellers run on the last play.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by Buster

Yep, Gibbs shouldn't have rubbed that butter all over Portis' gloves at halftime. Fire the coach.

We would've been fine with the playcalling in the second half if we weren't dropping the ball. Portis forgot how to catch AND take a handoff, Campbell fumbled a snap, Sellers dropped a potential game-tying TD (ask Dawkins if Sellers can run over anyone) and we just made too many mistakes to win.

No one is saying the players didn't mess up. (ps- it was campbell's fault that portis fumbled...he didn't tuck it in like he should have). But we are saying that if not for conservative play calling this game would have been won by us.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by jsarno

No one is saying the players didn't mess up. (ps- it was campbell's fault that portis fumbled...he didn't tuck it in like he should have). But we are saying that if not for conservative play calling this game would have been won by us.

jsarno, how would you define conservative playcalling?

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

jsarno, how would you define conservative playcalling?

Hard to get specific, but just watch the entire second half again until Campbell had to throw some deep balls. (although a few of them were due to penalties.)
Short passes, too many runs etc.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by jsarno

Hard to get specific, but just watch the entire second half again until Campbell had to throw some deep balls. (although a few of them were due to penalties.)
Short passes, too many runs etc.

So who isn't conservative? And what's wrong with running the ball (what with 2 1,000 yard rushers?)

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by jsarno

Hard to get specific, but just watch the entire second half again until Campbell had to throw some deep balls. (although a few of them were due to penalties.)
Short passes, too many runs etc.

I would agree with that definition, but look at this:

3rd Quarter
2-7-WAS 33 (9:13) 17-J.Campbell pass incomplete deep left to 89-S.Moss.

4th Quarter
1-10-WAS 38 (5:25) 17-J.Campbell pass incomplete deep right to 89-S.Moss.
1-10-NYG 48 (4:02) 17-J.Campbell pass incomplete deep left to 82-A.Randle El (29-S.Madison).
2-10-NYG 35 (3:43) 17-J.Campbell pass incomplete deep left to 82-A.Randle El [92-M.Strahan].

We definately took our shots in that game. On the last drive, we completed two "long" passes. 2/6 isn't a bad long pass completion rate for a half, its to be expected.

We had as many deep passes as handoffs to Portis in the second half. Can that be twisted as conservative?

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I would agree with that definition, but look at this:

3rd Quarter
2-7-WAS 33 (9:13) 17-J.Campbell pass incomplete deep left to 89-S.Moss.

4th Quarter
1-10-WAS 38 (5:25) 17-J.Campbell pass incomplete deep right to 89-S.Moss.
1-10-NYG 48 (4:02) 17-J.Campbell pass incomplete deep left to 82-A.Randle El (29-S.Madison).
2-10-NYG 35 (3:43) 17-J.Campbell pass incomplete deep left to 82-A.Randle El [92-M.Strahan].

We definately took our shots in that game. On the last drive, we completed two "long" passes. 2/6 isn't a bad long pass completion rate for a half, its to be expected.

We had as many deep passes as handoffs to Portis in the second half. Can that be twisted as conservative?

Washington Redskins at 09:50
9-L.Tynes kicks 53 yards from NYG 30 to WAS 17. 31-R.Cartwright to WAS 30 for 13 yards (22-R.Droughns).
1-10-WAS 30 (9:46) 26-C.Portis right guard to WAS 33 for 3 yards (97-M.Kiwanuka).
2-7-WAS 33 (9:13) 17-J.Campbell pass incomplete deep left to 89-S.Moss.
3-7-WAS 33 (9:07) 17-J.Campbell pass incomplete short left to 89-S.Moss.
4-7-WAS 33 (9:04) 4-D.Frost punts 52 yards to NYG 15, Center-67-E.Albright. 25-R.McQuarters to NYG 21 for 6 yards (50-K.Campbell, 31-R.Cartwright).
Three and out, one deep pass...still conservative.

Washington Redskins at 06:00
1-10-WAS 14 (6:00) 17-J.Campbell pass short left to 26-C.Portis to WAS 10 for -4 yards (29-S.Madison).
2-14-WAS 10 (5:22) 26-C.Portis right end to WAS 18 for 8 yards (97-M.Kiwanuka).
3-6-WAS 18 (4:40) 17-J.Campbell scrambles up the middle to WAS 20 for 2 yards (31-A.Ross).
4-4-WAS 20 (3:58) 4-D.Frost punts 42 yards to NYG 38, Center-67-E.Albright, downed by WAS.
[/i]3 straight conservative plays[/i]

Washington Redskins at 12:33
9-L.Tynes kicks 62 yards from NYG 30 to WAS 8. 31-R.Cartwright pushed ob at WAS 45 for 37 yards (28-G.Wilson).
1-10-WAS 45 (12:25) 89-S.Moss left end to WAS 47 for 2 yards (29-S.Madison). End around
2-8-WAS 47 (11:45) 26-C.Portis left tackle to 50 for 3 yards (91-J.Tuck).
3-5- (11:08) 17-J.Campbell pass incomplete short middle to 26-C.Portis.
4-5- (11:03) 4-D.Frost punts 43 yards to NYG 7, Center-67-E.Albright, downed by WAS-45-M.Sellers.
Another 3 and out and 3 consecutive conservative plays

Washington Redskins at 08:19
1-10-WAS 42 (8:19) 26-C.Portis right tackle to WAS 43 for 1 yard (92-M.Strahan).
2-9-WAS 43 (7:46) 17-J.Campbell FUMBLES (Aborted) at WAS 43, RECOVERED by NYG-58-A.Pierce at WAS 44. 58-A.Pierce to WAS 44 for no gain (47-C.Cooley). Fumbled Hand-off to 26-C.Portis
2 consecutive conservative plays, one resulting in a fumble

Washington Redskins at 05:32
9-L.Tynes kicks 68 yards from NYG 30 to WAS 2. 31-R.Cartwright to WAS 38 for 36 yards (28-G.Wilson, 22-R.Droughns).
1-10-WAS 38 (5:25) 17-J.Campbell pass incomplete deep right to 89-S.Moss.
2-10-WAS 38 (5:19) 17-J.Campbell pass short middle to 26-C.Portis to WAS 40 for 2 yards (28-G.Wilson).
3-8-WAS 40 (4:39) 17-J.Campbell pass short middle to 82-A.Randle El to NYG 48 for 12 yards (29-S.Madison).
1-10-NYG 48 (4:02) 17-J.Campbell pass incomplete deep left to 82-A.Randle El (29-S.Madison).
2-10-NYG 48 (3:55) 17-J.Campbell pass short middle to 46-L.Betts pushed ob at NYG 35 for 13 yards (9-L.Tynes).
1-10-NYG 35 (3:48) 17-J.Campbell pass incomplete short left to 45-M.Sellers.
2-10-NYG 35 (3:43) 17-J.Campbell pass incomplete deep left to 82-A.Randle El [92-M.Strahan].
3-10-NYG 35 (3:37) 17-J.Campbell sacked at NYG 39 for -4 yards (97-M.Kiwanuka). FUMBLES (97-M.Kiwanuka), recovered by WAS-47-C.Cooley at NYG 46. 47-C.Cooley to NYG 46 for no gain (58-A.Pierce).
4-21-NYG 46 (2:54) 4-D.Frost punts 34 yards to NYG 12, Center-67-E.Albright, fair catch by 25-R.McQuarters.
7 consecutive passes, including 2 deep passes because we were behind with little time left. Had we not been so conservative before this drive we wouldn't be in a "pass every down" situation.

Washington Redskins at 02:19
1-10-NYG 35 (2:19) 17-J.Campbell pass incomplete short middle to 46-L.Betts.
2-10-NYG 35 (2:13) (Shotgun) 17-J.Campbell sacked at NYG 36 for -1 yards (97-M.Kiwanuka).
Two-Minute Warning
3-11-NYG 36 (2:00) (Shotgun) 17-J.Campbell pass deep middle to 82-A.Randle El to NYG 11 for 25 yards (28-G.Wilson). PENALTY on WAS-61-C.Rabach, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at NYG 36 - No Play.
3-21-NYG 46 (1:53) (Shotgun) 17-J.Campbell pass deep middle to 89-S.Moss to NYG 28 for 18 yards (37-J.Butler).
Timeout #3 by WAS at 01:45.
4-3-NYG 28 (1:45) (Pass formation) PENALTY on WAS-61-C.Rabach, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at NYG 28 - No Play.
4-8-NYG 33 (1:45) (Shotgun) 17-J.Campbell pass short middle to 89-S.Moss to NYG 18 for 15 yards (28-G.Wilson).
1-10-NYG 18 (1:22) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 17-J.Campbell FUMBLES (Aborted) at NYG 18, and recovers at NYG 21. 17-J.Campbell to NYG 21 for no gain (91-J.Tuck).
2-13-NYG 21 (1:15) 17-J.Campbell spiked the ball to stop the clock.
3-13-NYG 21 (1:07) (Shotgun) 17-J.Campbell pass deep middle to 82-A.Randle El to NYG 1 for 20 yards (37-J.Butler, 31-A.Ross).
1-1-NYG 1 (:58) 17-J.Campbell spiked the ball to stop the clock.
Timeout #2 by NYG at 00:51.
2-1-NYG 1 (:51) 17-J.Campbell pass incomplete short right to 45-M.Sellers (55-K.Mitchell).
3-1-NYG 1 (:47) 46-L.Betts left tackle to NYG 1 for no gain (55-K.Mitchell).
4-1-NYG 1 (:25) 46-L.Betts left end to NYG 3 for -2 yards (37-J.Butler).

So as you can see, only 1 time in the first 11 plays were they not conservative.
The last two possessions were not very conservative cause we had to make a come back and throw on way too many downs. That's what happens when you call a poor game and then need to dig yourself out of a hole.

[jsarno]

Oh and BTW, when we did open up the offense, we marched down the field.

[firstdown]

I'm not going to read this whole thread but has it been brought up that JC is starring down WR's and he missed about 6 to 7 plays where he had guys wide open. He does not starr them down on every play but he does do it very often and is missing allot of plays. I'm not bashing JC as he is young and these type of things happen as he is learning but I saw a bunch of our WR's in the 2nd half that were wide open.

[SmootSmack]

New England Patriots at 07:43
1-10-BUF 47 (7:43) 34-S.Morris right tackle to BUF 35 for 12 yards (55-A.Crowell, 20-D.Whitner).
1-10-BUF 35 (7:17) (Shotgun) 12-T.Brady pass short left to 10-J.Gaffney pushed ob at BUF 24 for 11 yards (26-A.Youboty).
1-10-BUF 24 (6:55) 34-S.Morris up the middle to BUF 19 for 5 yards (98-L.Tripplett, 52-J.DiGiorgio).
2-5-BUF 19 (6:22) (Shotgun) 34-S.Morris left tackle to BUF 11 for 8 yards (20-D.Whitner, 25-K.Thomas).
1-10-BUF 11 (5:49) 34-S.Morris right guard to BUF 8 for 3 yards (77-T.Anderson, 25-K.Thomas).
2-7-BUF 8 (5:12) 12-T.Brady pass short right to 84-B.Watson for 8 yards, TOUCHDOWN. NE 84-Watson 3rd straight game with a TD reception.
3-S.Gostkowski extra point is GOOD, Center-66-L.Paxton, Holder-6-C.Hanson.
BUF 7 NE 10 Plays: 6 Possession: 2:35
Six straight conservative plays—Touchdown

New England Patriots at 04:01
1-10-BUF 48 (4:01) 39-L.Maroney left guard to BUF 29 for 19 yards (26-A.Youboty). PENALTY on NE-39-L.Maroney, Delay of Game, 5 yards, enforced at BUF 29.
1-10-BUF 34 (3:28) 39-L.Maroney left tackle to BUF 27 for 7 yards (55-A.Crowell, 90-C.Kelsay).
2-3-BUF 27 (2:51) 39-L.Maroney left guard to BUF 22 for 5 yards (97-J.McCargo, 52-J.DiGiorgio).
1-10-BUF 22 (2:10) (Shotgun) 12-T.Brady pass deep left to 88-K.Brady to BUF 2 for 20 yards (99-J.Jefferson, 42-J.Leonhard).
Two-Minute Warning
1-2-BUF 2 (2:00) NE 50-Vrabel & 55-Seau eligible. 44-H.Evans right guard to BUF 3 for -1 yards (52-J.DiGiorgio, 57-J.Stamer).
2-3-BUF 3 (1:20) 12-T.Brady pass short right to 81-R.Moss for 3 yards, TOUCHDOWN. NE 81-Moss 4th career game vs. Buffalo, TD in all 4.
3-S.Gostkowski extra point is GOOD, Center-66-L.Paxton, Holder-6-C.Hanson.
BUF 7 NE 17 Plays: 6 Possession: 2:44
Five conservative plays, one deep pass-Touchdown

New England Patriots at 11:30
1-10-NE 11 (11:30) 39-L.Maroney up the middle to NE 5 for -6 yards (95-K.Williams, 25-K.Thomas).
2-16-NE 5 (10:55) (Shotgun) 12-T.Brady pass short right to 83-W.Welker to NE 15 for 10 yards (25-K.Thomas).
3-6-NE 15 (10:13) (Shotgun) 12-T.Brady pass short right to 83-W.Welker to NE 26 for 11 yards (33-J.Greer) [90-C.Kelsay].
1-10-NE 26 (9:39) (Shotgun) 39-L.Maroney right guard to NE 32 for 6 yards (99-J.Jefferson).
2-4-NE 32 (9:03) 12-T.Brady pass deep left to 81-R.Moss to BUF 23 for 45 yards (20-D.Whitner). NE 81-Moss now has 11,040 career rec yards. 19th player in NFL history with 11,000+ rec yards.
1-10-BUF 23 (8:17) 39-L.Maroney right end to BUF 8 for 15 yards (42-J.Leonhard, 20-D.Whitner).
1-8-BUF 8 (7:39) (Shotgun) 39-L.Maroney right guard to BUF 1 for 7 yards (20-D.Whitner, 25-K.Thomas).
2-1-BUF 1 (7:00) NE 50-Vrabel & 55-Seau eligible. 12-T.Brady sacked at BUF 4 for -3 yards (sack split by 94-A.Schobel and 52-J.DiGiorgio). BUF 94-Schobel now has 61.5 career sacks, tied for 2nd in Bills history.
3-4-BUF 4 (6:26) (Shotgun) 12-T.Brady pass short left to 10-J.Gaffney for 4 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
3-S.Gostkowski extra point is GOOD, Center-66-L.Paxton, Holder-6-C.Hanson.
BUF 7 NE 24 Plays: 9 Possession: 5:08
Eight conservative plays, one deep pass-Touchdown

New England Patriots at 05:03
1-10-NE 42 (5:03) (Shotgun) 12-T.Brady pass short left to 81-R.Moss to NE 49 for 7 yards (20-D.Whitner, 26-A.Youboty).
2-3-NE 49 (4:32) (Shotgun) 34-S.Morris left guard to BUF 41 for 10 yards (52-J.DiGiorgio).
1-10-BUF 41 (3:59) 12-T.Brady pass deep middle to 83-W.Welker to BUF 15 for 26 yards. Lateral to 81-R.Moss pushed ob at BUF 4 for 11 yards (25-K.Thomas).
1-4-BUF 4 (3:29) 34-S.Morris up the middle for 4 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
3-S.Gostkowski extra point is GOOD, Center-66-L.Paxton, Holder-6-C.Hanson.
BUF 7 NE 31 Plays: 4 Possession: 1:37
Four conservative plays, one deep pass-Touchdown

New England Patriots at 00:28
1-10-NE 2 (:28) 44-H.Evans right guard to NE 11 for 9 yards (33-J.Greer).
2-1-NE 11 (15:00) (Shotgun) 39-L.Maroney left tackle to NE 13 for 2 yards (53-M.Haggan).
1-10-NE 13 (14:20) PENALTY on BUF-90-C.Kelsay, Encroachment, 5 yards, enforced at NE 13 - No Play.
1-5-NE 18 (14:00) NE 68-O'Callaghan eligible. 12-T.Brady pass incomplete short middle to 88-K.Brady.
2-5-NE 18 (13:55) (Shotgun) 12-T.Brady pass incomplete short left to 81-R.Moss.
3-5-NE 18 (13:51) (Shotgun) 12-T.Brady pass short right to 83-W.Welker to NE 28 for 10 yards (90-C.Kelsay).
1-10-NE 28 (13:16) 39-L.Maroney left end to NE 37 for 9 yards (52-J.DiGiorgio, 97-J.McCargo).
2-1-NE 37 (12:36) 12-T.Brady pass short right to 83-W.Welker to NE 36 for -1 yards (25-K.Thomas, 20-D.Whitner).
3-2-NE 36 (11:53) (Shotgun) 12-T.Brady pass short middle to 33-K.Faulk to NE 46 for 10 yards (43-B.Scott).
1-10-NE 46 (11:13) (Shotgun) 12-T.Brady pass short left to 33-K.Faulk to BUF 45 for 9 yards (55-A.Crowell, 20-D.Whitner) [72-R.Neill].
2-1-BUF 45 (10:28) 12-T.Brady pass deep right to 81-R.Moss for 45 yards, TOUCHDOWN. NE 81-Moss 1st receiver in NFL history to have 100+ rec yards in each of his 1st 3 games with a new team. NE 81-Moss 49th career 100-yard receiving game NE 12-Brady 16th career 300-yard game.
0-0-BUF 2 3-S.Gostkowski extra point is GOOD, Center-66-L.Paxton, Holder-6-C.Hanson.
Nine conservative plays, one deep pass-Touchdown

And every drive started with “conservative” plays. So the strategy can and does work

[jsarno]

Well, I guess since the Pats did it with their team it will work for us?
That is worst argument I have ever heard you make. We are two different teams SS. The Pats have their entire O line in tact, we do not. They score in bunches, we do not. Their passing game is respected (which makes their running game work better), ours is not. They get 12, 19, 7 and 9 yards on first down (using your examples) in 4 out of the 5 drives, we do not, and did not.
When you're effective on first down it opens a lot of things. I don't consider what they did conservative cause it works. It works for several reasons, many of which I already said.
Worst comparison ever SS. You don't stick with what DOESN'T work!