Do we need upgrades at wide receiver?

[That Guy]

With the exception of the Patriots and maybe the Falcons, teams who are at or near the top of their respective divisions all have at least one stand-out wide receiver that many will regulary say belong in the Top Ten in the league. I maintain that Coles wouldn't be on that list.

last year coles was #7... seriously, the drops are only an issue cause our O sucks... WR numbers are down cause of brunell, if ramsey was in, we'd have much WR stats right now... and if you want to see teams that do drop a lot of balls, watch the titans or seahawks, i've watched a couple of their games, and they're truly awful when it comes to holding onto balls (probably the worst in the league).

still, if mike williams is up and its our pick, that's who i'd lobby for...

Originally Posted by smootsmack

Well, taking Taylor Jacobs as an example. If he's not up to snuff yet at this point in his NFL career, how would a player still in college be more ready?

jacobs missed his entire rookie year and hasn't started any games... boldin and fitz came in and starters and played a lot, that's the easiest way to get better... the talent taken in the top 5 is generally far better than those in the latter part of the first round or into the second round.

[celts32]

The biggest problem with our WR corp is that Coles is not the #1 game breaker WR that we thought he was when we opened up the checkbook. We payed him like Randy Moss and we got just a good player in return. I know the quarterbacking has not been that good since he got here, but I just don't look at him and think he is a great player. Gardner is a good #2 and the other guys add good depth I just think that we lack the true #1 WR that most good teams have.

[FRPLG]

I honestly believe our WRs have been perhaps the most underated problem on our team this year. I'll go down the list to explain the issues each is having.

Coles: Clearly he is not the player he was last year. The toe injury has limited his quickness and probably inhibit good cuts. His routes are above average still but he is not at that top level where we need him to be. Basically his hasn't been able to get the seperation that a receiver his size and type need to be effective. This is obviously a result of the toe problem and hopefully will be remedied in the off-season. One other factor to think about is that Coles is Ramsey's favorite target. Brunell never seemed to get sink with him(or anyone else for that matter) so it cut down on his touches. He also has a finger issue that probably led to the drops. He is a number 1 guy on 25 other teams when he is healthy.

Gardner: Rangy guy with limited speed and quickness. He runs some routes perfectly and and exhibits the toughness needed for a possession receiver like himself. He also runs some bad routes and looks downright fragile at other times. He clearly doesn't have natural hands and doesn't seem to work hard at improving them. He drops far too many tough balls and way way way too many easy balls. He is athletic and can make some things happen but he needs to catch more balls and make his qb look better than he currently does. It seems to me the way to use a guy like Gardner is one of two ways. A) send him down field against shorter corners where he can use his size and athleticism to make plays. B) Use him on mid-range routes for first downs and short tough gains. The skins seem to use him well in the latter but he doesn't seem to get any seperation down field and doesn't exhibit the toughness that he shows on the shorter routes to be effective in the former. An above average number 2 if he could pcik it up and be a little more consistent.

Jacobs: Seems he is our current #3 which i think makes him probably the most talented #3 in the league. He has great speed and what seems like a good work ethic and a good team attitude. Somewhat injury prone due to his slighter frame I don't he is overtly athletic but he certainly has the requisite amount of athleticism. The lack of pure skill means he is probably 10-15 more games away from being a real impact player but I can see him being a real threat in the mold of a guy like Marvin Harrison. If he can learn to run great routes his speed quickness will make him a great receiver.

McCants: Pure possesion guy who seems to always make plays and be open downfield. I guess he is a lazy practice guy so that limits his growth potential. a pretty good number 4 guy considering he is probably an average number 3 in the NFL.

Thrash: Qucik guy who works hard and does much with less skill than most. Based purely on skill level he is a #3 at best in the NFL but his work ethic makes him a solid #2. Doens't get great seperation but does good thinsg once he gets the ball.


Notice the biggest issue our receivers have had is the lack of seperation. I think this and Brunell's arm go together to explain our anemic pass offense. These guys couldn't get open enough for Brunell's weak ass arm to ever get the ball in there. I thnk Ramsey will help this out as corners and safeties will learn pretty quick that they can't just hang back off of guys and jump the ball before it gets there like they were doing with Brunell(or would havge done if Brunell ever threw at them). Ramsey will start pushing some balls in tight spaces(or try to) and this will make corners and safties play a tighter style to accomodate the quciker balls which will actually create some more seperation as playing tight is a feast or famine situation. We are going to have one game where we bust out and everything changes. Thus ending the thought of ever using Brunell again.

[BrudLee]

We've got one great WR in Coles - unfortunately, he isn't healthy. Gardner is wildly inconsistent, McCants needs in solidify his effort, Jacobs is a question mark, and Thrash isn't talented enough. I'd love to put Thrash's brain (and heart) into Gardner's body - his problems seem like focus issues to me.

[That Guy]

on the above statement: gardner works very hard to improve... all reports this year have him as a first guy in, last guy out... he's gotten better, but there's still room to improve...

[BrudLee]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

Notice the biggest issue our receivers have had is the lack of seperation. I think this and Brunell's arm go together to explain our anemic pass offense. These guys couldn't get open enough for Brunell's weak ass arm to ever get the ball in there. I thnk Ramsey will help this out as corners and safeties will learn pretty quick that they can't just hang back off of guys and jump the ball before it gets there like they were doing with Brunell(or would havge done if Brunell ever threw at them). Ramsey will start pushing some balls in tight spaces(or try to) and this will make corners and safties play a tighter style to accomodate the quciker balls which will actually create some more seperation as playing tight is a feast or famine situation. We are going to have one game where we bust out and everything changes. Thus ending the thought of ever using Brunell again.

Good point. The speration issue early in the season may have as much to do with the QB as the WR. How many Brunell passes longer than 20 yards were even attempted, much less completed? If the routes are all 10 yard in's, there isn't much chance to blow off the coverage. And with Brunell's demonstrated arm strength, were any teams concerned with a deep ball?

Now that we have a QB who has deep range, the playcalling should (fingers crossed) adjust, sending CB's and safeties downfield, and opening running lanes and mid-range passes up.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by BrudLee

Now that we have a QB who has deep range, the playcalling should (fingers crossed) adjust, sending CB's and safeties downfield, and opening running lanes and mid-range passes up.

What I am now worried the most about is Joe's willingness to allow Ramsey to let it fly. Ramsey will need to do this to open up the secondary a bit but if our play calling is anything like last Sunday I may as well be the QB for this team. Those hitches WILL NOT work against the Steelers. A week of preparing for them means the first one we throw gets taken to the house by the CB. What would be money is to run a little pump and chuck on our first pass play.

Lineup Coles, Gardner and Jacobs in the bunch on the left with Coles out wide. On snap have Gardner go into straight up blocking and have Jacobs sell big time on the block. Ramsey can pump to coles on a certain count as Jacobs releases on a fly. He'll be wide open. This WILL WORK. We're talking 80 yard toucdown. They'll be so over-playing the hitches that all three corners and the safeties will be in swarming towards coles on the hitch.

[SkinsRock]

Ok, so now that we finally have Brunell on the bench, we're questioning and criticizing the WR's after ONE full game with Ramsey??? Without a doubt there have been way too many drops, but give it time. Brunells accuracy was for shit, and they've had just one week of work to adjust back to Ramsey's right-handed, strong-armed throwing style. I'm certainly not trying to make excuses for the drops, but a little patience please!!!

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

Jacobs: Seems he is our current #3 which i think makes him probably the most talented #3 in the league.

Hate to nitpick here, but Antwaan Randle El and Brandon Stokley are miles ahead of Taylor Jacobs as talented #3 WRs go. And really, Thrash sees more time at the #3 spot than Jacobs does.

Jacobs needs much more playing time before we can use his name in any sentence containing the words "best _____ in the league."

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by SkinsRock

Ok, so now that we finally have Brunell on the bench, we're questioning and criticizing the WR's after ONE full game with Ramsey??? ... I'm certainly not trying to make excuses for the drops, but a little patience please!!!

After 10 games, please forgive us if our patience has worn a bit thin.

Plus, there has been criticism of our wide receivers long before Ramsey began playing. Gardner's drops, McCants' inconsistency and immaturity, Coles with injury issues and playing hurt, and Jacobs' inability to crack the starting lineup have been regular topics around here.

It's certainly nothing new.

[SkinsRock]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

After 10 games, please forgive us if our patience has worn a bit thin.

Plus, there has been criticism of our wide receivers long before Ramsey began playing. Gardner's drops, McCants' inconsistency and immaturity, Coles with injury issues and playing hurt, and Jacobs' inability to crack the starting lineup have been regular topics around here.

It's certainly nothing new.

I understand, but it seems that now since the QB switch has been made, and Ramsey played...ummm...efficiently (which Brunell failed to do), the focus of the passing game issues (on the Warpath) has been turned to the WR's. Of course there are, and have been issues there, but now there are multiple threads about them, whereas before, it seemed like 90% of the focus was on Brunell's shortcomings and what Ramsey could do.
We have a good group of wide receivers, but they have been struggling, as has the ENTIRE OFFENSE from the play calling on down. Yeah, Portis is pushing 1,000 yards, but TWO rushing TD's after 10 games?!? Come on! It's all of them....but that does not mean they don't have the talent and potential to turn it around and start playing well.

[VTSkins897]

still weve had 9 games of a qb that cudnt hit the side of a barn...

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by VTSkins897

still weve had 9 games of a qb that cudnt hit the side of a barn...

True dat!

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by SkinsRock

I understand, but it seems that now since the QB switch has been made, and Ramsey played...ummm...efficiently (which Brunell failed to do), the focus of the passing game issues (on the Warpath) has been turned to the WR's. Of course there are, and have been issues there, but now there are multiple threads about them, whereas before, it seemed like 90% of the focus was on Brunell's shortcomings and what Ramsey could do.
We have a good group of wide receivers, but they have been struggling, as has the ENTIRE OFFENSE from the play calling on down. Yeah, Portis is pushing 1,000 yards, but TWO rushing TD's after 10 games?!? Come on! It's all of them....but that does not mean they don't have the talent and potential to turn it around and start playing well.

I hear ya, dude. Yes, nobody on offense is safe from criticism. And I agree with you, as mundane as the passing game was against the Eagles, Ramsey was still 1000 times better than Brunell. Ramsey's completion percentage, 21 for 34, is something Brunell couldn't do in 5 games -- and that was with multiple drops from wideouts and running backs.

You're also correct about playcalling. I heard the Eagles were something like 23rd in the NFL against the run. Yet we had a grand total of 51 yards on 22 rushes. I hate to admit that Joe Gibbs called a bad game, but I've never seen him ignore such an obvious weak spot in an opponent and fail to exploit it.

The wideouts are simply another facet of an incompetent, buffoon-like offense that just happens to be the focus of all the bitching this week.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by skinsguy

Hmmmm, Ward has an 85.1% completion rate where as both Coles and Gardner are in the 40% range for completions.

Just so you know, those stats are misleading. Those stats also represent QB ACCURACY. Hines Ward's & Co.'s catch percentages are representative of their QB.

Considering how much we've assailed Brunell (who started 9 of 10 games) and Ramsey for their accuracy (who collectively have the worst completion percentage in the league for starters), you can't reference the percentage caught as an indication of the WR's hands.

Roethlisberger has a 69% completion percentage whereas Burnell had a 49% completion percentage. That says it all.