Are we being fair to Kyle Shanahan?

[30gut]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

Disagree 100%. Coaches will not change their scheme to fit around players.

I disagree 100%.
I guess it depends on what you mean by 'change'.

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

We had to pass because we couldn't run the ball effectively. That had a big deal to do with our RB and OL situation. When teams know you can't run the ball, they are going to tee off on your QB.

Disagree.
We ran the ball decent (middle of the pack in YPC) we didn't run the ball often enough (IIRC 2nd/3rd to last).
In most cases 1st down is the playcallers choice pass/run.
We were top 10 1st down pass attempts (as of week 9).

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by 30gut

I disagree 100%.
I guess it depends on what you mean by 'change'.

I mean, if a West Coast offense coach comes to a team that has a Power Run players on it, he isn't going to change his system to fit the players. He's going to run his scheme and find out who can play in the system, and replace everybody else. (same with the defense)

Originally Posted by 30gut

Disagree.
We ran the ball decent (middle of the pack in YPC) we didn't run the ball often enough (IIRC 2nd/3rd to last).
In most cases 1st down is the playcallers choice pass/run.
We were top 10 1st down pass attempts (as of week 9).

15th in average
30th in total rushing

Some of that has to do with McNabb accuracy issues putting us in to many 3rd and longs. Still, our running game isn't/wasn't where it needs to be. Torrain is slow, but runs hard.

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

I mean, if a West Coast offense coach comes to a team that has a Power Run players on it, he isn't going to change his system to fit the players. He's going to run his scheme and find out who can play in the system, and replace everybody else. (same with the defense)



15th in average
30th in total rushing

Some of that has to do with McNabb accuracy issues putting us in to many 3rd and longs. Still, our running game isn't/wasn't where it needs to be. Torrain is slow, but runs hard.

like when gibbs came here with a passing offense and completely flipped it after going 0-5 and seeing it not work?

or when schotty got tony banks and built an offense around him (waiver wire trash QB) and ONE audible?

i'm sorry, but i think a coach who insists on getting his players first is quickly unemployed.


so when peyton manning's OC comes in and decides to kepp running the same offense until the next peyton manning comes around... that makes him what? a genius? 20 wasted seasons in, is he allowed to keep saying "if i only had my players"?

[30gut]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

I mean, if a West Coast offense coach comes to a team that has a Power Run players on it, he isn't going to change his system to fit the players. He's going to run his scheme and find out who can play in the system, and replace everybody else. (same with the defense)

Of course an coach isn't going to run a completely different system.
A WCO isn't going to run an Coryell offense.
But to think coaches don't adpat their systems is naive.
Mike Holmgren/Brad Childress both WCO coaches used a more run focused attack when their personnel dictated i.e. Shaun Alexander/Adrian Peterson.

The Pats went from a balanced Erhardt-Perkins offense to a wide open spread offense w/ Brady and Moss back to a ball control offense w/ Cassel now they run a double TE focused passing attack.

The previous poster mentions Gibbs (not Gibbs 2.0) who came from a pass focused air Coryell offense and re-focused the attack into a run centric single back/h-back lead offense.

The good coaches adapt their system to fit the players its long been one of Bellichicks calling cards.
Etc...etc...

15th in average
30th in total rushing

Which supports my original statement.
15th in average=meaning we ran the ball decent
30 in total rushing=we didn't run the ball enough (30th in total rushing attempts)
Heck, even Kyle said he needs to run the ball more

Some of that has to do with McNabb accuracy issues putting us in to many 3rd and longs. Still, our running game isn't/wasn't where it needs to be. Torrain is slow, but runs hard.

Your changing the point here.
Of course we need to run the ball better.
You made a statement but the stats don't support your statement.

We were top of the league in 1st down pass attempts.
You can't blame a high number of 1st down pass attempts on anything else then coaches choice.

[Mechanix544]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

I mean, if a West Coast offense coach comes to a team that has a Power Run players on it, he isn't going to change his system to fit the players. He's going to run his scheme and find out who can play in the system, and replace everybody else. (same with the defense)



15th in average
30th in total rushing

Some of that has to do with McNabb accuracy issues putting us in to many 3rd and longs. Still, our running game isn't/wasn't where it needs to be. Torrain is slow, but runs hard.

torain may be a bruiser, but he is most definitley not slow.

[#56fanatic]

You know I am kind of tired of hearing about McNabbs shortcomings as a QB. If he was so bad, how did he produce 9 years of playoff births in 11 years, 6 probowls, 4 NFC championship games, 1 superbowl. And in my eyes a future hall of fame QB. McNabb was NOT the issue with the redskins last year. I am not saying he was picture perfect, but lets face the problems that have plagued this team for the last decade. The offensive line was horrible, provided no protection what so ever. THis goes back to Ramsey when he would get creamed every game. The RB situation was not as bad as people make it out to be. Torain was very productive at his position as was Williams, again the problem was the line didn't make much room for either. As the season went on (last 3 or 4 games) the line seemed to be doing a little better and Torain showed flashes of why I think he can be a very productive RB for this team. Poor draft choices, lack of choices, and overall bad personel moves over the last 10 years have made a huge hole of depth of quality Oline man on this team. To sit back and blame McNabb for all troubles are crazy. McNabb is a good QB, and will show what he can do in Minnesota. I dont care who has been here or who you could dream of having under center here, if the oline isn't' better then this team will struggle every damn year. That has been a common theme for many years.

Kyle seem a bit too head strong like his father. McNabb suggested some things that he thought would allow the team to disguise the weaknesses of the oline, but Kyle would have nothing of it. Like I said, McNabb could have played better, but he was on pace to put up one of the best statistical years of his career. For a guy with zero line, zero running game for much of the season, and basically one receiver, I would look at that as a positive. Lets face it, if the staff wouldn't have switched the D around, we may have won a number more games and we wouldn't be talking about this, we'd be talking about building on last year and going deeper in the playoffs.

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by #56fanatic

You know I am kind of tired of hearing about McNabbs shortcomings as a QB. If he was so bad, how did he produce 9 years of playoff births in 11 years, 6 probowls, 4 NFC championship games, 1 superbowl. And in my eyes a future hall of fame QB. McNabb was NOT the issue with the redskins last year. I am not saying he was picture perfect, but lets face the problems that have plagued this team for the last decade. The offensive line was horrible, provided no protection what so ever. THis goes back to Ramsey when he would get creamed every game. The RB situation was not as bad as people make it out to be. Torain was very productive at his position as was Williams, again the problem was the line didn't make much room for either. As the season went on (last 3 or 4 games) the line seemed to be doing a little better and Torain showed flashes of why I think he can be a very productive RB for this team. Poor draft choices, lack of choices, and overall bad personel moves over the last 10 years have made a huge hole of depth of quality Oline man on this team. To sit back and blame McNabb for all troubles are crazy. McNabb is a good QB, and will show what he can do in Minnesota. I dont care who has been here or who you could dream of having under center here, if the oline isn't' better then this team will struggle every damn year. That has been a common theme for many years.

Kyle seem a bit too head strong like his father. McNabb suggested some things that he thought would allow the team to disguise the weaknesses of the oline, but Kyle would have nothing of it. Like I said, McNabb could have played better, but he was on pace to put up one of the best statistical years of his career. For a guy with zero line, zero running game for much of the season, and basically one receiver, I would look at that as a positive. Lets face it, if the staff wouldn't have switched the D around, we may have won a number more games and we wouldn't be talking about this, we'd be talking about building on last year and going deeper in the playoffs.

when i saw mcnabb, i sure didn't see a 9 time pro-bowler... i saw a guy throwing balls in the dirt, and the philly fans told us that's what we'd see when we got him. he's probably done.

[#56fanatic]

Originally Posted by That Guy

when i saw mcnabb, i sure didn't see a 9 time pro-bowler... i saw a guy throwing balls in the dirt, and the philly fans told us that's what we'd see when we got him. he's probably done.

I just dont get it. He is 33, 34 years old. You realize what he was doing prior to getting benched. As someone mentioned he was on pace to set career high in yards, set the Redskins record for yards, completions and all this with second rate talent around him. I see this as making the MOST out of NOTHING. He was running for his life anytime he took a 5 to 7 step drop, and hell even some 3 step releases he was getting drilled. No running game really and only 1 receiver. So Manning, Brady, Drew B, never make bad throws? Come on.

[SirClintonPortis]

Originally Posted by #56fanatic

I just dont get it. He is 33, 34 years old. You realize what he was doing prior to getting benched. As someone mentioned he was on pace to set career high in yards, set the Redskins record for yards, completions and all this with second rate talent around him. I see this as making the MOST out of NOTHING. He was running for his life anytime he took a 5 to 7 step drop, and hell even some 3 step releases he was getting drilled. No running game really and only 1 receiver. So Manning, Brady, Drew B, never make bad throws? Come on.

You know why we swept the Eagles in 2008? Cuz McNabb was a choking dog with his dirt balls and turnoveres(and he had the gall to say "the better team lost").

[sportscurmudgeon]

Originally Posted by SirClintonPortis

You know why we swept the Eagles in 2008? Cuz McNabb was a choking dog with his dirt balls and turnoveres(and he had the gall to say "the better team lost").

He must have learned something between then and the end of last year because when the Eagles waxed the Skins 59-28 (it was 35-0 after the first play of the second quarter if you recall), he did NOT say that the better team lost...

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by #56fanatic

I just dont get it. He is 33, 34 years old. You realize what he was doing prior to getting benched. As someone mentioned he was on pace to set career high in yards, set the Redskins record for yards, completions and all this with second rate talent around him. I see this as making the MOST out of NOTHING. He was running for his life anytime he took a 5 to 7 step drop, and hell even some 3 step releases he was getting drilled. No running game really and only 1 receiver. So Manning, Brady, Drew B, never make bad throws? Come on.

please, put words in people's mouth.

mcnabb looked awful. i understand the protection sucked, but he was slow (physically and decision wise) and just generally didn't look like the guy we were told we were getting.

[BaltimoreSkins]

Originally Posted by #56fanatic

You know I am kind of tired of hearing about McNabbs shortcomings as a QB. If he was so bad, how did he produce 9 years of playoff births in 11 years, 6 probowls, 4 NFC championship games, 1 superbowl. And in my eyes a future hall of fame QB. McNabb was NOT the issue with the redskins last year. I am not saying he was picture perfect, but lets face the problems that have plagued this team for the last decade. The offensive line was horrible, provided no protection what so ever. THis goes back to Ramsey when he would get creamed every game. The RB situation was not as bad as people make it out to be. Torain was very productive at his position as was Williams, again the problem was the line didn't make much room for either. As the season went on (last 3 or 4 games) the line seemed to be doing a little better and Torain showed flashes of why I think he can be a very productive RB for this team. Poor draft choices, lack of choices, and overall bad personel moves over the last 10 years have made a huge hole of depth of quality Oline man on this team. To sit back and blame McNabb for all troubles are crazy. McNabb is a good QB, and will show what he can do in Minnesota. I dont care who has been here or who you could dream of having under center here, if the oline isn't' better then this team will struggle every damn year. That has been a common theme for many years.

Kyle seem a bit too head strong like his father. McNabb suggested some things that he thought would allow the team to disguise the weaknesses of the oline, but Kyle would have nothing of it. Like I said, McNabb could have played better, but he was on pace to put up one of the best statistical years of his career. For a guy with zero line, zero running game for much of the season, and basically one receiver, I would look at that as a positive. Lets face it, if the staff wouldn't have switched the D around, we may have won a number more games and we wouldn't be talking about this, we'd be talking about building on last year and going deeper in the playoffs.

Most people don't realize that if McNabb wasn't benched he may have set the single season record for passing yards by a Redskins QB. So of this may be contributed to having to pass more frequently since they were playing behind all the time. We knew we were getting a QB with a relatively low completion percentage, and not quite accurate so I don't understand why Redskins fans were surprised when it happened

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by BaltimoreSkins

Most people don't realize that if McNabb wasn't benched he may have set the single season record for passing yards by a Redskins QB. So of this may be contributed to having to pass more frequently since they were playing behind all the time. We knew we were getting a QB with a relatively low completion percentage, and not quite accurate so I don't understand why Redskins fans were surprised when it happened

We had to pass because we couldn't run the ball effectively. That had a big deal to do with our RB and OL situation. When teams know you can't run the ball, they are going to tee off on your QB.

[SirClintonPortis]

Originally Posted by #56fanatic

You know I am kind of tired of hearing about McNabbs shortcomings as a QB. If he was so bad, how did he produce 9 years of playoff births in 11 years, 6 probowls, 4 NFC championship games, 1 superbowl. And in my eyes a future hall of fame QB. McNabb was NOT the issue with the redskins last year. I am not saying he was picture perfect, but lets face the problems that have plagued this team for the last decade. The offensive line was horrible, provided no protection what so ever. THis goes back to Ramsey when he would get creamed every game. The RB situation was not as bad as people make it out to be. Torain was very productive at his position as was Williams, again the problem was the line didn't make much room for either. As the season went on (last 3 or 4 games) the line seemed to be doing a little better and Torain showed flashes of why I think he can be a very productive RB for this team. Poor draft choices, lack of choices, and overall bad personel moves over the last 10 years have made a huge hole of depth of quality Oline man on this team. To sit back and blame McNabb for all troubles are crazy. McNabb is a good QB, and will show what he can do in Minnesota. I dont care who has been here or who you could dream of having under center here, if the oline isn't' better then this team will struggle every damn year. That has been a common theme for many years.

Kyle seem a bit too head strong like his father. McNabb suggested some things that he thought would allow the team to disguise the weaknesses of the oline, but Kyle would have nothing of it. Like I said, McNabb could have played better, but he was on pace to put up one of the best statistical years of his career. For a guy with zero line, zero running game for much of the season, and basically one receiver, I would look at that as a positive. Lets face it, if the staff wouldn't have switched the D around, we may have won a number more games and we wouldn't be talking about this, we'd be talking about building on last year and going deeper in the playoffs.

Romanowski: ‘McNabb was lazy’ - DC Sports Bog - The Washington Post

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by #56fanatic

You know I am kind of tired of hearing about McNabbs shortcomings as a QB. If he was so bad, how did he produce 9 years of playoff births in 11 years, 6 probowls, 4 NFC championship games, 1 superbowl. And in my eyes a future hall of fame QB. McNabb was NOT the issue with the redskins last year.

And out of those 9 years of playoffs he's only managed to go to the SB once (one of those playoff appearances was led by Jeff Garcia), and only won one of those 4 NFC championship games. Tells you a lot about McNabb doesn't it? It clearly shows you the guy isn't clutch, which is exactly why Eagle fans have been destroying McNabb during his tenure. The dirtballs, the failed execution in the 4th quarter. Nope, that wasn't his fault either right? If he goes to Minnesota and stinks it up there, you'll still be making excuses for him.


Let's take a look back and see the QBs that have excelled in Andy's system:

1) AJ Feely
2) Michael Vick
3) Jeff Garcia

Each one of the guys came in and played just as good if not better than McNabb. So what's the one thing constant in all this? The system. Insert X QB into the slot and the same production is there. It's a telling sign when a divisional rival coach sends his starting QB over to you to roll with a guy who hasn't played much at all. THink about it.

McNabb has always been the problem. His work ethic, ability to learn and adapt, and his horrible accuracy. Why is it Rex played better when he came in? Same crappy team, yet much better results. You can't deny that, but I imagine you'll close your eyes and ears because you don't want to know the truth. You'd rather just point the finger at everybody else and blame them. It fits your agenda after all.