Belichick...Best of All Time????

[70Chip]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I think 2002 Tampa Bay was better than 2002 Philadelphia. Can't say the same about 03 Carolina (to 03 Philly).

But in any case, you are looking at a two game sample. Could be (and probably was) complete luck that the Eagles didn't win the NFC more than once in that era. Or it could be a combination of stiff competition and untimely whatever. On the whole, its only two games no matter how important they might have been.

Not that I'm complaining or anything.

You would think that the 4th greatest coach in history would have a larger sample, I agree.

Norv Turner is the all time greatest and everyone would know this if he had a larger sample of playoff games.

[GTripp0012]

The biggest coaching blunder of the last ten years was unquestionablly Wade Phillips' refusal to play Doug Flutie over Rob Johnson in Buffalo. This cost the Bills many wins. But hence my qualifier: that the primary defining quality of a head coach is ability to make sure he always has the best 11 guys on the field for the situation. Phillips clearly failed in his responsibility.

Once you have your best players on the field, the rest is semantics and luck.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by 70Chip

You would think that the 4th greatest coach in history would have a larger sample, I agree.

Norv Turner is the all time greatest and everyone would know this if he had a larger sample of playoff games.

8 possible oppertunities? 4 apperances in the conference champ game? Playoff berths in 75% of his attempts?

Are we just assessing a penalty for being not being a dinosaur? Madden coached one more year than Reid has so far, won his conference the eqivelent number of times, and no one has an issue with that call.

Presumably because hes old.

[70Chip]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

8 possible oppertunities? 4 apperances?

Are we just assessing a penalty for being not being a dinosaur? Madden coached one more year than Reid has so far, won his conference the eqivelent number of times, and no one has an issue with that call.

Presumably because hes old.

Not at all. I think Belichek is up there and he's active. I think winning multiple SB's is what seperates good and great. Perhaps its not a perfect criteria but it is the most widely accepted. And if you don't use championships as a marker then I could say Lou Saban or Jack Pardee. All hell would break loose. I think my frustration over this is that so many people treat the Eagles like a dynasty and they haven't won anything. Why isn't Marv Levy on your list? Were the Bills that much better than the Eagles.

[70Chip]

My List:

Vince Lombardi
Bill Walsh
Chuck Noll
Bill Belechek
George Halas
Don Shula
Curly Lambeau
Paul Brown
Joe Gibbs
Tom Landry
Sid Gillman
Bill Parcells
John Madden
Weeb Ewbank
Hank Stram
George Allen
Mike Holmgren
Mike Shanahan
Jimmy Johnson
Tony Dungey

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by 70Chip

Not at all. I think Belichek is up there and he's active. I think winning multiple SB's is what seperates good and great. Perhaps its not a perfect criteria but it is the most widely accepted. And if you don't use championships as a marker then I could say Lou Saban or Jack Pardee. All hell would break loose. I think my frustration over this is that so many people treat the Eagles like a dynasty and they haven't won anything. Why isn't Marv Levy on your list? Were the Bills that much better than the Eagles.

If you thought Saban/Pardee were among the best coaches ever, you should have said that. I know very little about either, so its possible that they could be the best two coaches ever and I would just be ignorant to it.

I just don't think that this list should be taking a list of ten legends, and arranging them according to personal preference. There actually should be criteria to meet, and at the top of my list was "uses personel to best possible utility". And IMHO, only Lombardi (with practically everyone he tried), Walsh (particularly with properly finding and utilizing two of the greatest QBs to ever play, and for scouting out Jeff Garcia), Shula (with the Earl Morall situation) ranked ahead of Reid.

And I'm not forgetting about Gibbs' quarterback utilization in the 80's, but IMO that doesn't seal his top ten fate. If I didn't get to see him match up vs. modern coaches, I certainly would have him there. But seeing him not clearly outcoach people on a week to week basis, I slid him out of my top ten.

And that's not to detract from his greatness, just to demonstrate how great I feel the ten I chose really are.

If a coach is handed superstars by his GM, he shouldn't have a problem starting them. If he's handed a bunch of spare parts, its up to him to find the hidden gems. The great ones will always play the best 11, regardless of prior rep.

[KLHJ2]

The Top 3 Coaches ever in this order. Vince Lombardi, John Madden, Joe Gibbs(Before he returned) Hands down bar none. Based on winning percentage regular season, post season, and championchips. I would put Billy somewhere in the top ten.

[Old School]

JOE GIBBS!! I cant belive this is even a question

[irish]

Originally Posted by angryssg

The Top 3 Coaches ever in this order. Vince Lombardi, John Madden, Joe Gibbs(Before he returned) Hands down bar none. Based on winning percentage regular season, post season, and championchips. I would put Billy somewhere in the top ten.

No way are Gibbs & Madden 2 of the top 3 coaches of all time. Gibbs is great and belongs in the top 10. I'm not sure Madden makes the top 10.

[Daseal]

I personally hate Bellichek, but he seems to win regardless of injuries, who's on his roster, etc. If he wins 1-2 more super bowls I will find it very hard to not say he's one of the best.

[celts32]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Well you could use the same agument w/ Gibbs 1 and Gibbs 2.

Gibbs 1 had a GM and Gibbs 2 does not.

Gibbs is unique though in how spread out his tenures are...he came back into a completely different league. But yes he is the perfect example of how even the best of coaches need a good GM to succeed.