Sally J.'s latest is spot on

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Spence

No, I'm pretty sure I would not decide that a corpse is making the personnel decisions for the Washington Redskins. Yes, I'm pretty sure of that. As for Vinny Cerrato, Scott Campbell and Morocco Brown, I don't know what they've been doing their entire adult lives, but I know what they have not been doing: Building Super Bowl champions. And by the way, I believe what the facts tell me to believe.

Perhaps I was mildly hyperbolic As for Cerrato, Campbell, and Brown my point was simply that too many people say "we need to hire football guys" or "guys that have spent their adult lives studying football" Which is exactly what those three have done

You're right, perception is not always reality. You know what IS reality? Reality. And the reality is a .455 losing percentage. Reality is losing to the Lions and then having a coach tell the public that the team is improving. Reality is watching every team in the NFC East win a division championship, except the Redskins, since Dan Snyder started making decisions. Reality is cutting Brian Mitchell so the team could rent 9-toe Deion Sanders for one season. That is the savage, inevitable, remorseless reality.

Reality is also making the playoffs in two of Gibbs four years here under Snyder. Reality is drafting Cooley in the 3rd round, Mitchell in the 7th, signing London Fletcher, not signing Courtney Brown.

And reality is actually a .455 winning percentage. Which of course I'm frustrated with. Any fan would be.

I certainly accept that past ownership has its flaws. Past ownership hired Norv Tuner and continued to employ him for years after it was abundantly clear that he was a poor head coach and a godawful talent evaluator. If Dan Snyder has made one good decision it was firing Norv Turner, though he did it at the wrong time and in the wrong way. Desmond Howard, Tom Carter, Heath Shuler, Michael Westbrook and Andre Johnson were all drafted in the first round by past ownership. It was past ownership that brought that fat, lazy pantload Dana Stubblefield to Washington. Past ownership screwed up plenty from 1992-1998.

None of that excuses Dan Snyder for what he has done. And none of that erases the three Super Bowls past ownership did win before it went senile and couldn't tell its ass from its elbow.

I'm glad someone recognizes that past ownership was not perfect

[firstdown]

SS that was a great post.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

SS great job!

[freddyg12]

Smoot makes some good points. I would answer to his earlier question about other owners; from my observation, most owners only speak publicly when they need to just like CEOs, on the heels of big news, controversy, or to do damage control.

We don't see that out of Snyder, yet there is plenty of damage control that's been needed. I agree w/Matty, Snyder is not comfortable in front of the camera. To his credit, he held a press conference when ST passed away. Had he not done that, he'd really be hated!

He has a problem w/his public perception, whether deserved or not. I just don't think he shows much effort to change that perception. Should he? I guess that can be argued either way, but ultimately you would think at some point he'll have to if this team can't win regularly (see G. Steinbrenner).

To my point about the perception of him. Check the insider poll #s from today:

Redskins Insider - Take It from the Very Top

[over the mountain]

Spence there is no reasoning with SS on the topic of the DS. he has his opinion, the majority of skins fans have a different one.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by over the mountain

Spence there is no reasoning with SS on the topic of the DS. he has his opinion, the majority of skins fans have a different one.

Count me in with SS.

[MonkFan4Life]

You know what. Seriously, whatever Dan Snyder likes we are trained to go against it. Remember when Dan Snyder was searching for his coach and the one pet peeve that the media had was that he was going to go out and get an established guy to see if he could recreate success there ? How he should go and find an unknown to be his guy for the future ? Remember how another big complaint was that he wanted to force the incoming coach to have Jason Campbell as his QB ? Oh yes, there was a time when JC was Snyders guy. And as soon as he gets Zorn, why him ? Why not a more established guy. Then do you remember over the summer when Danny wanted to get another Qb, all of a sudden Campbell is a great QB just on the brink of greatness ? It's the hatred of the Danny that drives some people.

I mean it is really ridiculous Spense how you can even make it like keeping everything outside of the offense as intact as you can as a bad thing. We complain about the lack of continuity and when you get that there is a problem. That's what I'm talking about !

[MrSpectre]

[QUOTE=freddyg12;600270]Searched elsewhere for this on the wp & almost put it in an existing thread ("Lavar's twitter" led to discussion of our owner).

But I felt it was such a strong & well written article that it had to stand alone. I know a lot of us have been unhappy w/Sally Jenkins over the years, but based on my limited knowledge as only a fan, I really find it hard to disagree w/most of what she says. I've always felt the biggest difference between JJ & DS was that Jerry is at least accessible to the public & makes himself somewhat accountable.

Here's the link:



Agree fully. About the only thing Jenkins left out was the appropriate last line: "resign, you silly twit, and let an adult take over!"

As good old Ken Beatrice used to say, "a fish rots from the head." Zorn and Campbell may be in over their heads, but they're doing the best they can. Let's put the blame on the idiots who hired them, noting that these are only two of the many disastrous moves they've made.

Many of us remember Jack Kent Cooke, who may not have been one of nature's noblemen as a human being, but who, in retrospect, was a superb owner. He hired professionals and gave them time to get the job done. He demanded long-term competence but never interfered short-term.

I had been a Redskins fan since 1971, but, as of last Sunday night, I've checked out until Snyder sells the team. As a protest, I'll be rooting for the Steelers until that happens. Why the Steelers? Simple. They exemplify the kind of ownership and management needed in Washington.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by MrSpectre

Many of us remember Jack Kent Cooke, who may not have been one of nature's noblemen as a human being, but who, in retrospect, was a superb owner. He hired professionals and gave them time to get the job done. He demanded long-term competence but never interfered short-term.

I had been a Redskins fan since 1971, but, as of last Sunday night, I've checked out until Snyder sells the team. As a protest, I'll be rooting for the Steelers until that happens. Why the Steelers? Simple. They exemplify the kind of ownership and management needed in Washington.

I've been a fan since 1972. We've been through: 93-95 and you stayed a fan, that wasn't Snyder's fault. We survived the "bodybag game" and you didn't check out. My parents were fans during the 50s & 60s and they remained fans until they passed.

You can dislike Snyder, but he's doing what every other owner in the NFL needs to do, generate revenue. The Steelers have a brand new stadium and they've seen ticket, parking and concession hikes too. We're 9th in the league in ticket pricing with no raise this year.

Redskins don’t raise ticket prices - Washington Business Journal:

BTW we made the playoffs 3 of the 10 years Snyder's owned the Skins. JKC also didn't have a salary cap to deal with.

A shame you're checking out, but enjoy the Steelers. Also, don't try to hop back on the Skins bandwagon when they turn things around. I'll bet Snyder ain't selling the team until he dies and he'll probably pass it to his kids.

[TheMalcolmConnection]

And that exemplifies the kind of bandwagon jumping that got the Cowboys so many fans in the 90s. I don't root for owners, I root for the damn team and players who are trying so hard for us.

[MonkFan4Life]

Well if you'll be rooting for the Steelers why don't you join a Steelers board ? Or change your avatar ? I don't understand "longtime fans" like you. Did you feel that way in '05 ? Doubt it, go on and cheer for the Steelers and have a good time with your towels.

[SmootSmack]

Here are a couple of JKC articles that make for an interesting read

A Foundation for Success - Redskins: Owner Jack Kent Cooke and Coach Joe Gibbs enjoy a strong working relationship after three Super Bowls and several tough losses. (page 2) - Los Angeles Times

In his own estimation, at least, Jack Kent Cooke, the - 12.16.91 - SI Vault

And here's another interesting article from 15 years ago

That's what the fans are asking as the Washington - 10.03.94 - SI Vault

[TheMalcolmConnection]

Maybe it's a cop-out, but sometimes I just think the Redskins are the unluckiest franchise in the NFL.

I'm not going to give you a bunch of numbers or stats here, but just think about the injuries and problems we've had over the years. I mean things are the tragic, such as possibly the best safety to ever play the game being murdered, to the insanely unlucky like Portis hurting himself TACKLING someone in preseason.

Maybe it's because I don't follow other teams to know their "luck", but it's always a key injury here or a bad draft pick there that causes a problem. I don't care who you are, who would have said Desean Jackson would have been eating people up at WR? Who would have said that numerous other rookie picks by the Redskins, while serviceable, would pale in comparison to the rest of the NFC East?

Blame it on Snyder, blame it on Cerrato, blame it on Gibbs, Turner, Spurrier... I don't care who you blame it on, but it always seems this team is in a perpetual cycle of wrong place at the wrong time.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by TheMalcolmConnection

Maybe it's a cop-out, but sometimes I just think the Redskins are the unluckiest franchise in the NFL.

I'm not going to give you a bunch of numbers or stats here, but just think about the injuries and problems we've had over the years. I mean things are the tragic, such as possibly the best safety to ever play the game being murdered, to the insanely unlucky like Portis hurting himself TACKLING someone in preseason.

Maybe it's because I don't follow other teams to know their "luck", but it's always a key injury here or a bad draft pick there that causes a problem. I don't care who you are, who would have said Desean Jackson would have been eating people up at WR? Who would have said that numerous other rookie picks by the Redskins, while serviceable, would pale in comparison to the rest of the NFC East?

Blame it on Snyder, blame it on Cerrato, blame it on Gibbs, Turner, Spurrier... I don't care who you blame it on, but it always seems this team is in a perpetual cycle of wrong place at the wrong time.

[DynamiteRave]

Originally Posted by TheMalcolmConnection

Maybe it's a cop-out, but sometimes I just think the Redskins are the unluckiest franchise in the NFL.

I'm not going to give you a bunch of numbers or stats here, but just think about the injuries and problems we've had over the years. I mean things are the tragic, such as possibly the best safety to ever play the game being murdered, to the insanely unlucky like Portis hurting himself TACKLING someone in preseason.

Maybe it's because I don't follow other teams to know their "luck", but it's always a key injury here or a bad draft pick there that causes a problem. I don't care who you are, who would have said Desean Jackson would have been eating people up at WR? Who would have said that numerous other rookie picks by the Redskins, while serviceable, would pale in comparison to the rest of the NFC East?

Blame it on Snyder, blame it on Cerrato, blame it on Gibbs, Turner, Spurrier... I don't care who you blame it on, but it always seems this team is in a perpetual cycle of wrong place at the wrong time.

I definitely thought of blame it on the alcohol, right away.

Milli Vanilli is a little bit before my time.