Chargers and Norv

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Everyone wants to say Marty is a choker because he's never made it to the Super Bowl, yet no one considers a.) crazy circumstances (except skinsfan69 apparently) such as the Byner fumble or the drive, b.) that he overachieves with limited talent. Not to mention all the byes he earned.

Should he be declared a choker for not winning a championship or one of the better coaches for getting his team that far?

Limited talent????? I whole heartedly disagree with you there.
I have never called him a choker, my thoughts about him is he doesn't know how to step up in the playoffs. He is too arrogant to mix things up and try new things and the teams he plays are prepared for his teams. You have to ask yourself why the team is so dominant during the season then they suck in the postseason. It's not cause he overachieves, but it is cause he underachieves in the postseason, when it counts.
Again I say, there were more missed chances in that Byner fumble game...the one play does not define a coach, nor can be pointed to in an excuse to say he's a good postseason coach.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by jsarno

Limited talent????? I whole heartedly disagree with you there.
I have never called him a choker, my thoughts about him is he doesn't know how to step up in the playoffs. He is too arrogant to mix things up and try new things and the teams he plays are prepared for his teams. You have to ask yourself why the team is so dominant during the season then they suck in the postseason. It's not cause he overachieves, but it is cause he underachieves in the postseason, when it counts.
Again I say, there were more missed chances in that Byner fumble game...the one play does not define a coach, nor can be pointed to in an excuse to say he's a good postseason coach.

I'm not sure I ever said you called him a choker. If so, I apologize. SF called him a choker and I'm just saying, well to say he's a choker because of his post-season record is a fairly myopic way of seeing things.

And credit has to be given to the Broncos in that game. Both teams played great. Seems kind of ridiculous for anyone to blame Schottenheimer for that loss.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I'm not sure I ever said you called him a choker. If so, I apologize. SF called him a choker and I'm just saying, well to say he's a choker because of his post-season record is a fairly myopic way of seeing things.

And credit has to be given to the Broncos in that game. Both teams played great. Seems kind of ridiculous for anyone to blame Schottenheimer for that loss.

No, you didn't say that, I was just making a point of saying I never calling him a choker. I apologize for implicating you like that.

I don't think anyone is really "blaming" him for that loss, just that it's common place for him to lose in the playoffs. His teams seem to find a way to lose in the playoffs, and I think it's cause they are not willing to learn to play better teams, and adjust accordingly. Just an opinion though.
Personally, I could care less about the guy. He was hated here in Washington and deserved to be hated. So I don't care if he ever succeeds.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by jsarno

He was hated here in Washington and deserved to be hated. So I don't care if he ever succeeds.

Actually, it was my understanding that by the end of his first year many players had bought into the Schottenheimer method. I know he ticked a lot of them off at first (Oklahoma drills, trying to tell DG how to play cornerback), but, after his turnaround at the end of the year, I thought many of the players wanted him back.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Should he be declared a choker for not winning a championship or one of the better coaches for getting his team that far?

Ah the great paradox of evaluating coaches.

My answer of course is neither, grade the coaches on how well their past players respect them.

[SFREDSKIN]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Ah the great paradox of evaluating coaches.

My answer of course is neither, grade the coaches on how well their past players respect them.

Bottom line is. Do you want to win? If I recall the Chargers started the season at 1-3 and then 5-5, if Turner was so bad they would have folded, but instead they made a run for the playoffs and beat 2 pretty good teams in the playoffs one of them the former SB champs.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by SFREDSKIN

Bottom line is. Do you want to win? If I recall the Chargers started the season at 1-3 and then 5-5, if Turner was so bad they would have folded, but instead they made a run for the playoffs and beat 2 pretty good teams in the playoffs one of them the former SB champs.

Yes, I want to win.

Bottom line: I'm confused?

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by SFREDSKIN

Bottom line is. Do you want to win? If I recall the Chargers started the season at 1-3 and then 5-5, if Turner was so bad they would have folded, but instead they made a run for the playoffs and beat 2 pretty good teams in the playoffs one of them the former SB champs.

Of course we want to win. That's why Norv Turner isn't in Washington anymore.

[SFREDSKIN]

John Butler was the GM before A.J.Smith.

ESPN Classic - Butler dies of lung cancer at 56

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by SFREDSKIN

Bottom line is. Do you want to win? If I recall the Chargers started the season at 1-3 and then 5-5, if Turner was so bad they would have folded, but instead they made a run for the playoffs and beat 2 pretty good teams in the playoffs one of them the former SB champs.

SD didin't fold cause;
1. They have one of the best RB's of all time
2. They have the best pass rushers in the NFL
3. They have one of the best CB that Marty S. hand picked in Cromartie
4. They have one of the best o-lines in the NFL
5. They get to play Oak and Den twice, Balt and Det. That's 6 easy wins for a talented team.
6. Not because of Norv Turner

[SFREDSKIN]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

SD didin't fold cause;
1. They have one of the best RB's of all time
2. They have the best pass rushers in the NFL
3. They have one of the best CB that Marty S. hand picked in Cromartie
4. They have one of the best o-lines in the NFL
5. They get to play Oak and Den twice, Balt and Det. That's 6 easy wins for a talented team.
6. Not because of Norv Turner

All this things you mention are because of John Butler and AJ Smith the GM's. Smith fired Marty for a reason. Are you sure AJ Smith didn't draft Cromartie? He traded Manning for Rivers was that also Marty, got rid Brees was that also Marty. If you love Marty so much how would you feel if your coach was 5-13 in the playoffs and never took you to the SB.

[MTK]

SD will have to play one hell of a game to beat NE, I just don't see it happening.

[lespaul]

What misery it was to watch the Bills in four straight SB's.

Seeing the pats in it every damn year is gonna suck out loud. Not saying thats going to happen but...

[Campbell17]

I predicted the upset a while ago, I have a feeling it may be a looong game next weekend though.

[GTripp0012]

I'm sure that you could find better OC's than Norv, much like you can find better HC's. Thing is, Norv holding either position on your team does not disqualify them from playoff contention.