Sally J.'s latest is spot on

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Notice what the caption says about Spurrier

No way. Not even close. Spurrier turned out to be a horrible NFL coach, but the hire itself was exciting and had every chance to work. NFL teams were falling over each other to hire Spurrier as a head coach. This isn't even in the same ballpark as the Mangini hire.

I love Posnanski.

The Mangini hire was completely indefensible.

[SBXVII]

SlinginSammy,

You said;
49ers
Cerrato was with the San Francisco 49ers for nine seasons. He joined San Francisco in 1991 as the Director of College Scouting, helping to draft players including Ted Washington, Ricky Watters, Dana Stubblefield and Bryant Young. In 1994, he was part of the Super Bowl XXIX Championship team. In 1995, Cerrato was promoted to Director of Player Personnel, overseeing all college scouting and draft activities as well as pro scouting of NFL players and opponents.

Cerrato has only been formally in charge since the 2008 off-season. Hardly enough time to be judged a "failure".

This is what I find funny, people think that since Cerrato came from the 49ers and they won a SB under his reign we must be great, including Snyder. People sometimes don't stop to actually digest the material or facts but who cares cause it sounds so good that we pulled him from the SB 49ers right?

Why would any team fire....."FIRE" their GM if he got them to the SB and did such great things for the team? They wouldn't. Cerrato inherrited a team that was put together by another GM. The year he became GM the team went to the SB (with the players the previous GM put together). Then although Cerrato supposedly drafted good players, the team started becoming mediocre and the team fired him(Cerrato). In other words under Cerrato's helm the team started it's downward spiral, the owner recognized this and fired his lame arse.

I can't speak for his college days but I would imagine most colleges have scoutes who go out to the high schools and evaluate the talent. Then they would report to him. I presume he had to finalize the college scholarships. I'm not trying to take anything away from what he might have done at the college level cause he might be a guru there like Spurrier but certainly he's not a guru at the NFL level. He has yet to prove he's GM material cause the teams he has been apart of started crapping out after he arrived to them.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

This is what I find funny, people think that since Cerrato came from the 49ers and they won a SB under his reign we must be great, including Snyder. People sometimes don't stop to actually digest the material or facts but who cares cause it sounds so good that we pulled him from the SB 49ers right?

Why would any team fire....."FIRE" their GM if he got them to the SB and did such great things for the team? They wouldn't. Cerrato inherrited a team that was put together by another GM. The year he became GM the team went to the SB (with the players the previous GM put together). Then although Cerrato supposedly drafted good players, the team started becoming mediocre and the team fired him(Cerrato). In other words under Cerrato's helm the team started it's downward spiral, the owner recognized this and fired his lame arse.

I can't speak for his college days but I would imagine most colleges have scoutes who go out to the high schools and evaluate the talent. Then they would report to him. I presume he had to finalize the college scholarships. I'm not trying to take anything away from what he might have done at the college level cause he might be a guru there like Spurrier but certainly he's not a guru at the NFL level. He has yet to prove he's GM material cause the teams he has been apart of started crapping out after he arrived to them.

This is what I find funny, people make assumptions about what other people think, and then they don't stop to check their facts or to actually digest the material. But who cares cause it sounds so good to call Vinny a dumbass and blame everything on him right?

Pretty good article on Vinny.
Meet the New Boss - washingtonpost.com

As I linked above, he arrived in SF in 1991, SF won the SB in 1994, three years later with Ted Washington, Ricky Watters, Merton Hanks, Dana Stubblefield, Bryant Young, William Floyd, Lee Woodall and Doug Brien, all Cerrato draftees, and all making significant contributions to the team.

Your "facts" above about Vinny's performance are completely off-base and flat-out wrong. Cerrato wasn't fired because he was doing a poor job. It was because of Bill Walsh's pending return. After the SB year through 1998, the 49ers never went worse than 11-5, hardly "mediocre" or in a "downward spiral".
CNN/SI - NFL Football - Report: 49ers fire personnel director Cerrato - Tuesday January 12, 1999 11:20 AM

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

I can't speak for his college days but I would imagine most colleges have scoutes who go out to the high schools and evaluate the talent. Then they would report to him. I presume he had to finalize the college scholarships.

What exactly do you think NFL scouts do?

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

What exactly do you think NFL scouts do?

Honestly I can't figure out what ours does to get paid for?

but I thought the blogger that I responded to was refering to how Cerrato has done so many great things in his college days and in the NFL with the 49ers. I was arguing that I was not sure what his roll was at the college level perhaps the same job he's doing now but in the NFL he record is not good.

[The Goat]

Once again why anyone takes the time to defend the Skins' FO or the its decision-makers is absolutely, positively beyond me. It's akin to Will Ferrell shouting "I drive a Dodge Stratus" on SNL...except there's exactly zero humor wrt the franchise.

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by The Goat

Once again why anyone takes the time to defend the Skins' FO or the its decision-makers is absolutely, positively beyond me. It's akin to Will Ferrell shouting "I drive a Dodge Stratus" on SNL...except there's exactly zero humor wrt the franchise.

To me, the problem with the Redskins is not the acquisition of talent. Vinny has done a reasonable job of putting capable players on the field.

The problem is that, once they are on the roster, players regularly underperform. I do not think that that is a problem which arises from Vinny. That is a problem with the team culture.

[freddyg12]

Originally Posted by Lotus

To me, the problem with the Redskins is not the acquisition of talent. Vinny has done a reasonable job of putting capable players on the field.

The problem is that, once they are on the roster, players regularly underperform. I do not think that that is a problem which arises from Vinny. That is a problem with the team culture.

You sound like Michael Wilbon, which is a compliment btw. Wilbon et al (including Sally) have often said the "culture" of the organization is dysfunctional. That's something that becomes really tough for someone on the outside to debate, but there have been plenty of signs to indicate that's true.

Case in point, let's look back at Zorn's hiring; it was reported that Snyder had said GW made disparaging remarks about Gibbs, that Spagnola said he was offered the job but the redskins denied the offer, and that Fassell was led to believe he might get the job. Add to that, Zorn was already hired as O coordinator & a Blache was on board as d coordinator.

Even if all of the above isn't true, how can an organization have so much drama out in the air over hiring a head coach? Is it true that not many coaches are interested in the job, and Zorn was about the only guy that would take it?

Reports such as these by reputable journalists (Adam Schefler (sp?)) lead me to believe that there is a negative work culture in this organization. Joe Gibbs' gift was to shield his players from it & get them to focus on football. I don't know if Zorn has that ability.

[dmvskinzfan08]

Originally Posted by freddyg12

You sound like Michael Wilbon, which is a compliment btw. Wilbon et al (including Sally) have often said the "culture" of the organization is dysfunctional. That's something that becomes really tough for someone on the outside to debate, but there have been plenty of signs to indicate that's true.

Case in point, let's look back at Zorn's hiring; it was reported that Snyder had said GW made disparaging remarks about Gibbs, that Spagnola said he was offered the job but the redskins denied the offer, and that Fassell was led to believe he might get the job. Add to that, Zorn was already hired as O coordinator & a Blache was on board as d coordinator.

Even if all of the above isn't true, how can an organization have so much drama out in the air over hiring a head coach? Is it true that not many coaches are interested in the job, and Zorn was about the only guy that would take it?

Reports such as these by reputable journalists (Adam Schefler (sp?)) lead me to believe that there is a negative work culture in this organization. Joe Gibbs' gift was to shield his players from it & get them to focus on football. I don't know if Zorn has that ability.

I agree it is the Culture. Starting with DS and even us fans. Other fans are critical of their QBs. But we take it to the extreme. I dont think we will ever see a QB blossom here. It would have to be perfect circumstances for a rookie QB to reach his potential here. He would have no learning curve. HE would have to come right in and play like a pro bowler. We never have been in rebuilding mode. Have we? That's the problem with our team and is very much part of the Skins "current culture". We have unrealistic expectations every year and when we get our feelings hurt we take it out on certain players instead of realizing no matter how many acquisitions we make we actually should have been in rebuilding mode but we were in denial. -- We were actually rebuidling but sold a dream along with it. Most teams bite the bullet and start over from scratch but the Fo can't swallow its pride so our climb back to respectability takes even longer than most teams. We are not living in reality. When we boo when we win. That's a perfect example. But let some people tell it. JC is the anti-christ. lol

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by freddyg12

You sound like Michael Wilbon, which is a compliment btw. Wilbon et al (including Sally) have often said the "culture" of the organization is dysfunctional. That's something that becomes really tough for someone on the outside to debate, but there have been plenty of signs to indicate that's true.

Only speaking from my personal experience, there has been since the days of John Kent Cooke (and I don't really know the Gibbs 2.0 years too well) a lack of harmony within the organization. I would say it was ultra competitive in there and no one really had much fun, and the trust levels could be alarmingly low.

The culture needs to be feng shui'd

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by Lotus

To me, the problem with the Redskins is not the acquisition of talent. Vinny has done a reasonable job of putting capable players on the field.

The problem is that, once they are on the roster, players regularly underperform. I do not think that that is a problem which arises from Vinny. That is a problem with the team culture.

How much of the underperformance is that the HC is not utilizing his talent the best way he can? How much is it that the coach's will not alter their scheme to fit the players we have? I can't imagine we have a whole team of crappy or underperformers. Which to me points the finger back at the coaching staff for not actually putting the players in the best possible situation to win.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

How much of the underperformance is that the HC is not utilizing his talent the best way he can? How much is it that the coach's will not alter their scheme to fit the players we have? I can't imagine we have a whole team of crappy or underperformers. Which to me points the finger back at the coaching staff for not actually putting the players in the best possible situation to win.

See, I think that fans tend to over-value the playmakers we have. If you look at it, we peaked offensively way back in 2005 -- and nobody, other than Portis (who is fed an enormous workload) and Cooley (who is Jason's woobee) has come close to that level of offensive production. But even in these cases, they aren't scoring touchdowns.

I'm not saying they're "crappy" but they certainly are underperforming.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by The Goat

Once again why anyone takes the time to defend the Skins' FO or the its decision-makers is absolutely, positively beyond me. It's akin to Will Ferrell shouting "I drive a Dodge Stratus" on SNL...except there's exactly zero humor wrt the franchise.

I don't know, I guess it's those pesky facts that need to be brought to light every once in a while.

But for the record, I would like to see a true GM (I've mentioned Holmgren).

[TheMalcolmConnection]

I will blame it on anything but the rain. The rain did NOTHING to me. NOOOOOOOOOOOOTHING!

[Mechanix544]

I second Holmgren as GM, but would he want to work with Shanahan? Im actually a little bit pessimistic with a small side of optimism knowing that Shanahan might really be the future HC for this franchise, I just hope he can draft another Elway..........