KC Chiefs' Player Commits Murder-Suicide

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by DynamiteRave

I agree.

Belcher is a killer in technical sense of the word, but like I said way earlier in this thread, rational people don't just go off and shoot people. Belcher obviously had issues of some sort.

Before he was a "killer" he was someone's son, a little girl's father, a teammate and a friend. There's nothing wrong with people remembering him as that and that only. Only WE know Belcher as a cold-blooded killer.

While his acts were detestable, because he took an innocent soul from this world, that doesn't mean he was a horrible man or father. From all accounts he was an otherwise decent (that doesn't mean he didn't F up) guy.

Sometimes otherwise normal people do horrible things. The only person who may have known what was wrong is dead and the only person who REALLY knew what was going on is also dead.

I hope everyone involved eventually finds peace from such a horrible incident.

Actually Rave if you kill someone you are a horrible person. If you rape someone you are a horrible person. If you beat someone to s bloody pulp you are a horrible person. If those things dont make you horrible what does? Doesnt mean Belchers friends should not remember the "good " Belcher - but ill ask you the same thing i asked Warriorz- if someone killed your sister/best friend - would you be ok with that person being memorialized or honored?

[DynamiteRave]

Originally Posted by punch it in

Actually Rave if you kill someone you are a horrible person. If you rape someone you are a horrible person. If you beat someone to s bloody pulp you are a horrible person. If those things dont make you horrible what does? Doesnt mean Belchers friends should not remember the "good " Belcher - but ill ask you the same thing i asked Warriorz- if someone killed your sister/best friend - would you be ok with that person being memorialized or honored?

As someone who HAS been raped and who HAS had people taken from me, yeah, I can understand because people have lives beyond said incidents. Intent means a lot in regards to what people do. People rape and regret it. People kill and regret it. Then there are those who have no remorse for their actions. Those that don't have remorse, ARE the horrible people.

Oddly enough, sometimes people make terrible decisions and act irrationally without thought.

[warriorzpath]

But, punch_it_in- I understand why you would be so mad about what you experienced - cause from just reading what you described, I feel angry at the killer and sadden for everyone affected by it.

[DynamiteRave]

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I'm willing to forgive those who make poor choices. If you lived a good life before and after the incident, I can chalk it up to some godless behavior and in time, forgive.

I think to make a sweeping generalization that Belcher is now a horrible person is kind of narrow. I've never done anything criminal in my life, but if I go out and hit and kill someone with my car, I don't think that makes me killer.

If I go out decide to mow down people with my car... Then I'll say I'm a bad person.

[los panda]

Originally Posted by DynamiteRave

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I'm willing to forgive those who make poor choices. If you lived a good life before and after the incident, I can chalk it up to some godless behavior and in time, forgive.

I think to make a sweeping generalization that Belcher is now a horrible person is kind of narrow. I've never done anything criminal in my life, but if I go out and hit and kill someone with my car, I don't think that makes me killer.

If I go out decide to mow down people with my car... Then I'll say I'm a bad person.

did he accidentally shoot her?

[DynamiteRave]

Originally Posted by los panda

did he accidentally shoot her?

Only he knows that.

It wasn't like there was a struggle with the gun, but I'm assuming because he killed himself afterward, he probably realized he F'ed up big time.

Premeditation means a lot in cases like this.

[warriorzpath]

Originally Posted by DynamiteRave

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I'm willing to forgive those who make poor choices. If you lived a good life before and after the incident, I can chalk it up to some godless behavior and in time, forgive.

I think to make a sweeping generalization that Belcher is now a horrible person is kind of narrow. I've never done anything criminal in my life, but if I go out and hit and kill someone with my car, I don't think that makes me killer.

If I go out decide to mow down people with my car... Then I'll say I'm a bad person.

But see that's my point in all of this- whoever knew belcher and was affected by his act has a right to say or do anything in response to it (breaking laws and all of that excluded). But you have to respect it - good or bad. If you are an outsider you have no right to judge anyone's words or actions that were affected. Sort of calling the kettle black at this point - but Tom Jackson was wrong to say anything about what his team members were saying or doing.

[DynamiteRave]

Originally Posted by warriorzpath

But see that's my point in all of this- whoever knew belcher and was affected by his act has a right to say or do anything in response to it (breaking laws and all of that excluded). But you have to respect it - good or bad. If you are an outsider you have no right to judge anyone's words or actions that were affected. Sort of calling the kettle black at this point - but Tom Jackson was wrong to say anything about what his team members were saying or doing.

I agree with you.

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by DynamiteRave

As someone who HAS been raped and who HAS had people taken from me, yeah, I can understand because people have lives beyond said incidents. Intent means a lot in regards to what people do. People rape and regret it. People kill and regret it. Then there are those who have no remorse for their actions. Those that don't have remorse, ARE the horrible people.

Oddly enough, sometimes people make terrible decisions and act irrationally without thought.

Well first of all i am sorry you had such an awful thing happen to you. I dont really know you but i love u and think you come across as an awesome person. Much love.
As for the rapist To do it and than regret it. In my mind - too late. Too ****ing late.

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by warriorzpath

But, punch_it_in- I understand why you would be so mad about what you experienced - cause from just reading what you described, I feel angry at the killer and sadden for everyone affected by it.

Thank you. The guy actually died about three months ago in prison and i am happy because i believe where he is now and in the eyes and presence of his maker he finally must feel sorrow and regret for what he did. Gives me some relief.

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by DynamiteRave

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I'm willing to forgive those who make poor choices. If you lived a good life before and after the incident, I can chalk it up to some godless behavior and in time, forgive.

I think to make a sweeping generalization that Belcher is now a horrible person is kind of narrow. I've never done anything criminal in my life, but if I go out and hit and kill someone with my car, I don't think that makes me killer.

If I go out decide to mow down people with my car... Then I'll say I'm a bad person.

An accident is an accident. Usually rape is not an accident and i dont think as Panda said that Belcher accudentally shot his girlfriend. So by your own words he is a bad person. The lord forgives everyone. So i hear you about forgiveness but it doesnt make it ok. Also again - teammates remembering Belcher is a far cry from a tribute in hus locker. If i was the father of the girlfriend my God would i be on THE WARPATH about the "honoring" of the man that just shot my daughter.

[warriorzpath]

Originally Posted by punch it in

An accident is an accident. Usually rape is not an accident and i dont think as Panda said that Belcher accudentally shot his girlfriend. So by your own words he is a bad person. The lord forgives everyone. So i hear you about forgiveness but it doesnt make it ok. Also again - teammates remembering Belcher is a far cry from a tribute in hus locker. If i was the father of the girlfriend my God would i be on THE WARPATH about the "honoring" of the man that just shot my daughter.

But this is my point too- Tom Jackson has no right to say anything as an outsider, but as the father of the victim - he has every right to speak out against anything his teammates say or do. I think it's a big difference.

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by warriorzpath

But see that's my point in all of this- whoever knew belcher and was affected by his act has a right to say or do anything in response to it (breaking laws and all of that excluded). But you have to respect it - good or bad. If you are an outsider you have no right to judge anyone's words or actions that were affected. Sort of calling the kettle black at this point - but Tom Jackson was wrong to say anything about what his team members were saying or doing.

So lets be perfectly clear here. If my best friend kills your brother tomorrow in cold blood. Nobody should judge my best friend but me and i should memorialize the man who shot and killed your brother fir all the world to see? Make no bones about it - that is exactly what happened here. Tom Jackson is so incredibly rite on with his take on this situation that it makes me sick.

[warriorzpath]

Originally Posted by punch it in

So lets be perfectly clear here. If my best friend kills your brother tomorrow in cold blood. Nobody should judge my best friend but me and i should memorialize the man who shot and killed your brother fir all the world to see? Make no bones about it - that is exactly what happened here. Tom Jackson is so incredibly rite on with his take on this situation that it makes me sick.

I probably would be too angry if I was in that situation to care about right or wrong. I wouldn't say anything but I would be offended if Tom Jackson had anything to say about that situation(scenario you described) if I was in it.

[MTK]

Having a tribute in his locker does not mean they are saying what he did was right.

It's just a way of remembering the person they knew.

I'm sure there's a lot of conflicted emotions in that locker room.

Again, as many have already said it's a tragedy with a lot of layers. Too many people are trying to make it a black and white issue when it's clearly far from that.