Around the NFL: Week 3

[Kope]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Really... Rippen?

Ok Mr Matty I will go to the blackboard again....

Rypien, Rypien, Rypien, Rypien, Rypien, Rypien, Rypien, Rypien, Rypien, Rypien ....

speller I am not

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by 30gut

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...egative-grade/

Its a good read for those interested in more then a cursory hot take viewpoint of what PFF is about.

More.....

"The greatness of Rodgers’ performance last night was in the intangibles. Recognizing the blitz, drawing the defense offsides, catching the Chiefs in bad situations and exploiting those scenarios with simple passes to open receivers. But you cannot — and we do not try to — quantify intangibles, or what comes pre-snap. Our system grades what can be graded — the execution of the play post-snap — and in that regard Rodgers did not stand out in the same way that his statistics did. "

BUT these intangibles seperate the great ones. Intangibles are extremely extremely important...thats why Rogers is, along with Brady, the best QBs in the league. That why I say "use your eyes" the dude could be the best QB in the history of the league...im not joking. He could be.

[Alvin Walton]

Originally Posted by Kope

We have had QBs executed their duties with in the team construct to win 3 SBs. But in my opinion those were great teams not great QBs.

There is a pretty extensive list of teams that have never won a super bowl.
AFAIC that keeps us off of any worst team list that you perceive.

[KI Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by RedskinJake

Again, PFF looks at each play and grades the player based on his ability and the decision he makes. It takes out the effect of the other players and focuses solely on what that specific player did in that specific opportunity.

Which makes their grades worthless when it comes to quarterbacks. I don't care how the stats came out for Rodgers in that game, analysts are supposed to be more than just input/output devices. Any so-called analyst who can give Rodgers a poor grade for his performance last night forgot to do a reality check. His performance was masterful. The analyst should have used his judgement to adjust his grade upwards or simply admitted that their system doesn't work well for QB's and declined to grade him. Here's my grade: HOF.

[RedskinJake]

Originally Posted by Kope

We have had QBs executed their duties with in the team construct to win 3 SBs. But in my opinion those were great teams not great QBs.

I played a little QB in school so I am biased towards the position but I will be the first to tell you that the QB position is not the end all, be all of a football team. Having Tom Brady on the Jaguars doesn't get them 14 wins and Trent Dilfer won the Superbowl with a good ravens team. It's a team game. It takes a strong 53 man roster to win games. Great QB's only matter if the team is average or above at every other position and average QB's perform well with the same average or above average teams. It's easy to give credit for a win or a loss to the QB but this is a team sport.

[RedskinJake]

Originally Posted by KI Skins Fan

Which makes their grades worthless when it comes to quarterbacks. I don't care how the stats came out for Rodgers in that game, analysts are supposed to be more than just input/output devices. Any so-called analyst who can give Rodgers a poor grade for his performance last night forgot to do a reality check. His performance was masterful. The analyst should have used his judgement to adjust his grade upwards or simply admitted that their system doesn't work well for QB's and declined to grade him. Here's my grade: HOF.

He'll be in the HOF but that doesn't mean that he doesn't make mistakes and it doesn't mean that every TD he throws is 98% because of his ability. There are 11 guys on that offense at any given time and they are performing well. What PFF is saying with that grading is that most QB's in the league would've had success last night. He did not contribute anything more than a typical quarterback is expected to do in those situations. I'm not saying I fully agree but I'm also not sitting here for 4 hours a day doing film study..

[RedskinJake]

From PFF

Two of his touchdown passes were good or very good throws. His first touchdown pass on a whip to Ty Montgomery was a good throw leading his receiver away from the coverage for the score, so it earned a positive grade. His third touchdown pass to James Jones was a good throw on a back-shoulder pass yet again taking advantage of a free play, so it earned a positive grade.

The other three touchdowns, however, were passes thrown short of the end zone on speed outs to Randall Cobb. Were they bad throws? No, they were expected throws with the credit going to Cobb for fighting through contact or defeating the coverage with speed to the edge. That makes these zero-graded throws: Three passes that have a massive effect on Rodgers’ statistical performance but do not increase his grade.

However, those touchdown passes aren’t the story of what takes Rodgers’ grade from a grade with a plus in front of it to a grade with a minus in front of it. The story of what takes Rodgers’ grade below zero are two plays that you aren’t likely to see mentioned anywhere else today, but are taken into account of in a play-by-play grading system.

1. Rodgers had a fumble, which displayed poor pocket management, with 8:39 remaining in the second quarter. That play earned a negative grade.

2. With 12:58 remaining in the third quarter, Rodgers forced a pass that Josh Mauga could and possibly should have been returned for six points for Kansas City. If Mauga makes this interception, it would have tacked an ugly interception onto Rodgers’ stat line. Instead, Rodgers maintained his interception-less streak at Lambeau field, but it is a negatively graded play regardless. These are poor plays on Rodgers’ part that bring his game grade down that won’t show up on any widely quoted statistical analysis of his performance.

[jamf]

PFF came up with a bullshit rating to generate clicks.

They don't account for field position in the ratings.
a 3 yard pass inside the 5 yard line is a lot harder to complete compared to a 3 yard pass on 1st and 10 from their own 20YL.

[RedskinJake]

Originally Posted by jamf

PFF came up with a bullshit rating to generate clicks.

They don't account for field position in the ratings.
a 3 yard pass inside the 5 yard line is a lot harder to complete compared to a 3 yard pass on 1st and 10 from their own 20YL.

I agree but from a grading standpoint you are looking at 1 question, did the player perform below average or better than average at whatever specific tasks are unfolding during that play. If a CB is 2 yards off a WR and the QB throws a perfect back shoulder throw that exceeds what most QBs would've done there, then it's a positive grade. If he throws a bit to the right and the CB gets a hand on it and its still caught for a TD then that's a negative grade. If he fumbles, it's a really negative grade. The grading of a good decision/bad decision or good throw/bad throw is going to be the same no matter where the LOS is. You can't take it personal. They aren't grading him as a bad QB. They are saying that he did pretty much exactly what any average or better QB would have done in the same situations.

Also, PFF is a pro scouting agency.. I don't think they would want to scout each player separately for their NFL clients and again with a BS grading system for clicks..

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

Through three games, Andrew Luck ranks dead last in passer rating | ProFootballTalk

why is this guy seen as the second coming of Peyton? Why does the media tend to give him a pass?

73 turnovers in 51 games played...give me a effing break. "oh its the Oline, Pagano's fault, irsay fault, oh they have a bad defense" folks enough is enough, dude isnt that great.

Because he threw for like 40 td's last year and a ton of yards.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by Kope

We haven't drafted a good QB since Slinging Sammy Baugh. Seriously. Thiesman and Sonny were drafted elsewhere. Rippen and Williams were not good by any stretch of the imagination outside of one season (quarter) each in Washington (read: the team around them).

We have to be pretty close to the worst QB franchise in the NFL.

Actually Rypien did have a few good years here before the 91 season. People forget this but Monk, Clark and Sanders all went over 1,000 yards in 89 and Rypien was the qb for most of those throws. Having 3 wr's go over 1,000 is rare, even today. Very impressive stuff back in 89.

Williams was not drafted here. He was drafted by the Bucs in 77 or 78 I believe.

Some of the drafted guys I remember...Tom Flick, Jay Schreoder, Babe Laufenberg, Ryp, Stan Humphries, Cary Conklin, Heath, Gus, Rosenfels, Ramsey, JC, Brennan, Chase, RG3, Kirk.

Trent Green was really good but was drafted by someone else. Can't remember.

Out of all those scrubs, Schreoder was really the one who had serious physical skills. He had one of the strongest arms I've ever seen. He was in John Elway's league as far as big boy arms. He was mobile, really had the huge upside. Too bad he was basically Jeff George before Jeff George. But he still might hold the single season yardage record for the Skins back in 86.

[RedskinJake]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Out of all those scrubs, Schreoder was really the one who had serious physical skills. He had one of the strongest arms I've ever seen. He was in John Elway's league as far as big boy arms. He was mobile, really had the huge upside. Too bad he was basically Jeff George before Jeff George.

Nailed it..

[That Guy]

we could have also signed drew brees (potentially) but the team decided not to pursue it.

[30gut]

PFF grading system is an objective input/output device. That is why it can be trusted. That is why many NFL teams subscribe to it. PFF isn't "analyzing" Rodger's play with their grade. They are offering an objective tool that rates all QBs. Altering their grade because of something external to the on the field production would make them less objective, less valuable.
Rodgers or any QB that throws a hitch for a TD where the WR did the brunt of the scoring/playmaking isn't going to receive a grade as high as a QB that threaded the needle and located a pass to a spot where only his WR could make a touchdown catch. That is the beauty of PFF grading system.

They are not saying by any means that Rodger's didn't play well.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by RedskinJake

He'll be in the HOF but that doesn't mean that he doesn't make mistakes and it doesn't mean that every TD he throws is 98% because of his ability. There are 11 guys on that offense at any given time and they are performing well. What PFF is saying with that grading is that most QB's in the league would've had success last night. He did not contribute anything more than a typical quarterback is expected to do in those situations. I'm not saying I fully agree but I'm also not sitting here for 4 hours a day doing film study..

Aaron is one of my favorite QBs in the league. I think many people don't get or for whatever reason don't like PFF's stats. I used to be a subscriber, since they went 'big time' some of the old content is now exclusive for NFL teams only, but they do very good work. Its not perfect by any means but imho they have the most accurate/valuable stats/metrics out there.