Should Brunell be replaced? (merged)

[Twilbert07]

We need to stick with the one who brung us (Brunell). That said, I hope he picks up his game. He's thrown only 4 TDs in the past 7 weeks.

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by TAFKAS

I think you're talking about this thread Yours is post #36. Yeah you called it, but I don't see that anyone even responded to your post, let alone said you were nuts.

LOL!!!! PWNED!!!

[MTK]

Originally Posted by offiss

That is my opinion, although I do base a lot of that on what I saw last season when both played under the same conditions, where Ramsey clearly outplayed the seasoned veteran in Brunell, obviously we have nothing to base it on this season as Ramsey hasen't been given a chance to show whether or not he can play in this offense.

But in all do respect Matty, you were on the Ramsey bandwagon last season as well, and I wonder how you based your conclusion last season, as well as through training camp, and up until Gibbs decieded to change QB's?


In all likelyhood we will mis the playoff's for the second year in a row, would anyone be willing to say if Gibbs came out and said when he first took over that we are trading for Brunell, and we will be out of the playoffs for the first 2 years of his tenure, would then support the trade for Brunell? I doubt it, I believe most would say if this is a 3 year project then allow Patrick to play and develope and see where we are at the end of the first year, because Brunell will be over the hill by the time we are a playoff team, and Ramsey if he is the goods will be in his prime, instead we have an ageing QB who again has us looking for a lot of help to squeek into the playoffs.

If some want to argue that regardless Brunell would have outplayed Ramsey? OK, but we will never really know because he wasen't given a legitamate chance to prove otherwise, now we are 2 years down the road, Brunell's on his way out, and we still don't really know for sure what we have in Ramsey, seems like a major waste of time, and money, but that's just my opinion.

I'm tired of talking about what could have been with Ramsey and hypotheticals, let's talk about facts and the facts say Brunell is the better and more proven QB. Ramsey has shown nothing in his career to indicate he would be having a similar or better season than Brunell is having. However, looking at Brunell's career it's not a huge surprise. The guy has been there, done that.

Regarding last year yes I supported the decision to play Ramsey and I supported it during the preseason. But I also defended Brunell along the way when the majority of people here thought he was all washed up.

As I've said before, I'm not choosing sides here, I support and stand behind Gibbs' decision making more than anything. If Brunell went down and Ramsey came in this week I'd be 100% behind Ramsey just as I'm behind Brunell right now.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by skinsguy

LOL!!!! PWNED!!!

Tafkas is the king of pwning people by digging up old threads.

Be careful of what you say around here, it's right there in print waiting to be found by Tafkas, LOL.

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Tafkas is the king of pwning people by digging up old threads.

Be careful of what you say around here, it's right there in print waiting to be found by Tafkas, LOL.

LOL!!! Must be something only mods and admins can do, I haven't been able to look up old threads. Of course I don't have time to do so at work. (I'm always nervous when people walk past my door! Could be the boss, LOL!!!)

[wilsowilso]

Whatever Gibbs masterplan is I'm sure we haven't been wasting time these past two years. Our team effort is such a pleasure to watch. We had one bad game this entire year against a really tough schedule. That's a huge improvement. I didn't mind the switch back to Brunell at all, because I figured Gibbs knew best, but I now argue that we should go with Ramsey. I just don't think Brunell can take us as far as we dream of going right now. That being said I think Brunell has a great opportunity. So here's to our starting QB. May he manage our great team with all that he has. Oh and Dallas Cowboy fans are dumber than a bag of rocks.

[NFLeurope]

Just for the record...so people know where i stand...i also believe Patrick Ramsey is...or at the very least could be if given the opportunity, the best QB on our team.

i was upset when Gibbs replaced Ramsey in the first game...and in my opinion i think we prolly could have gotten to where we are now if Ramsey had started all season.

I believe this because while Brunell played awesome in the beginning of the year...he has been at best mediocre in the second half of the season. I posted a comparison of some of Brunells key stats from the 1st 6 games vs the last 7 games...and it is obvious his performance has gone way down. Also part of this gut feeling i have comes from the fact that Brunell is on the down-side of his career wheras i believe that if Ramsey were given the opportunity he could improve greatly, learn to cut down on turnovers, and begin to realize the potential that i believe he has.

Also if people remember back to last year...Ramsey posted a couple of 100+ passer rating games himself. And whereas Brunell has seemed to get progressively less effective as the season has gone on...Ramsey seemed to get progressively better as he continued to play.

That of course is just my opinion on who would have been our best option at QB this season. And it is altogether a different question than the one of knowing whether Brunell should be benched in favor of Ramsey at this point in the season.

In my opinion Brunell should start the Dallas game...and if he really struggles...and either has a bunch of turnovers...or shows a complete inability to move the offense...and it becomes clear that we dont stand a good chance of winning the game with him then i would prefer to see Ramsey come in and attempt to lead us to victory...rather than just changing nothing...and losing.

We need to win this game. IF Brunell cant get it done...try Ramsey...thats my opinion.

[mheisig]

Originally Posted by NFLeurope

We need to win this game. IF Brunell cant get it done...try Ramsey...thats my opinion.

If we get knocked out of the playoff race, I say to hell with it - bench them both and start Campbell.

Can't we all stop arguing and just agree they both suck?

[offiss]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I'm tired of talking about what could have been with Ramsey and hypotheticals, let's talk about facts and the facts say Brunell is the better and more proven QB. Ramsey has shown nothing in his career to indicate he would be having a similar or better season than Brunell is having. However, looking at Brunell's career it's not a huge surprise. The guy has been there, done that.

Regarding last year yes I supported the decision to play Ramsey and I supported it during the preseason. But I also defended Brunell along the way when the majority of people here thought he was all washed up.

As I've said before, I'm not choosing sides here, I support and stand behind Gibbs' decision making more than anything. If Brunell went down and Ramsey came in this week I'd be 100% behind Ramsey just as I'm behind Brunell right now.

Regarding last year yes I supported the decision to play Ramsey and I supported it during the preseason. But I also defended Brunell along the way when the majority of people here thought he was all washed up.

Yes, as did I, after Brunells debacle last season pretty much everyone wanted his head, and yes I was one of the few to defend the fact that although I felt Ramsey would be better for us, brunell was made to look far worse than he was, I put a lot of the blame on Gibbs and his simplistic offense, well guess what the team has evolved some from last season, and Brunells play has been head and shoulders better than last season, which brings me to my point, under the same circumstances last season Ramsey outplayed Brunell [against better defenses I might add] then why is it so difficult to believe that under better circumstance this year Ramsey wouldn't be even better than he was last season, and yes better than brunell has been this season, at least I have something to base my evaluation on, there is no way to base an evaluation on him being a failure this season because he hasen't played, the only thing anyone can hang their hat's on is Gibbs deciesion to bench him, I know this is taboo around here but is there a remote possiblity, just a chance, that Gibbs could perhaps have been wrong about the QB situation? Does that possibility exist, he has admitted to making mistakes personel wise in other areas, I am not saying that that is the case, but could it be possible?

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by NFLeurope

Just for the record...so people know where i stand...i also believe Patrick Ramsey is...or at the very least could be if given the opportunity, the best QB on our team.

i was upset when Gibbs replaced Ramsey in the first game...and in my opinion i think we prolly could have gotten to where we are now if Ramsey had started all season.

I believe this because while Brunell played awesome in the beginning of the year...he has been at best mediocre in the second half of the season. I posted a comparison of some of Brunells key stats from the 1st 6 games vs the last 7 games...and it is obvious his performance has gone way down. Also part of this gut feeling i have comes from the fact that Brunell is on the down-side of his career wheras i believe that if Ramsey were given the opportunity he could improve greatly, learn to cut down on turnovers, and begin to realize the potential that i believe he has.

That of course is just my opinion on who would have been our best option at QB this season. And it is altogether a different question than the one of knowing whether Brunell should be benched in favor of Ramsey at this point in the season.

In my opinion Brunell should start the Dallas game...and if he really struggles...and either has a bunch of turnovers...or shows a complete inability to move the offense...and it becomes clear that we dont stand a good chance of winning the game with him then i would prefer to see Ramsey come in and attempt to lead us to victory...rather than just changing nothing...and losing.

We need to win this game. IF Brunell cant get it done...try Ramsey...thats my opinion.

Just a quick note. If we would have replaced Brunell in our last game with Dallas using your same criteria Ramsey would have been our QB in the last 4 minutes of the game. Would Ramsey have made those TD's and the crucial 1st down late in the game. I also think alot of Brunell's drops in numbers have been teams are just keying in on our real threats.

[#56fanatic]

Originally Posted by NFLeurope

Is the game saturday or sunday? I thought it was on sunday?

Sunday my bad, next week is saturday. Christmas shopping and crap has my brain fried.

[offiss]

Originally Posted by firstdown

Just a quick note. If we would have replaced Brunell in our last game with Dallas using your same criteria Ramsey would have been our QB in the last 4 minutes of the game. Would Ramsey have made those TD's and the crucial 1st down late in the game. I also think a lot of Brunell's drops in numbers have been teams are just keying in on our real threats.

Well it was Brunells inept ability to remotly move the ball for the first 56 minutes of that game, which put us in a position to need miracle throws in the final 4 minutes, are you saying Ramsey would have been as horrible in the first 56 minutes of that game as Brunell was?

Consider this, Ramsey had more passing yards in the first quarter of the Bears game than Brunell had in the final 3 quarters, yes the Bears defense which everyone is proclaiming the best in the NFL this season.

[firstdown]

I was just asking the question and was not supporting Brunell or Ramsey. I think its an argument that neither side knows or will never know the answer to.

[56FAN]

No you don't replace him unless he is hurt or his play continues to go down hill. i mean i don't want our playoff dreams to go down the toilet with out a fight.i'm not going to lie my confidence in mark is a little strained.i also know that the reserve qb always looks better.i hope it doesn't come to that but if we are losing we need to take shot.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by skinsguy

LOL!!! Must be something only mods and admins can do, I haven't been able to look up old threads. Of course I don't have time to do so at work. (I'm always nervous when people walk past my door! Could be the boss, LOL!!!)

I don't think the search feature is regulated to just mods and admins. But I tend to remember relatively trivial things (like what irish wrote in late august) rather easily so it makes it easier to look for the actual thread or post to confirm. I have a good memory I guess-it's how I'm able to write those Rewind columns.

But I wasn't trying to Pwn anyone, just getting annoyed sometimes when people get into hyperboles "Everyone said" "I always knew", etc.