Wanted: Playmakers

[diehard]

Moss? Check.
Cooley? Check.
Randle El (now known as Santonio Holmes)? Check.
Jason Campbell? Hmmm.

I too am warming up to the idea that if we want to get to the promise land it may take drafting Sanchez or probably giving Colt Brennan a shot. Why? It's no secret that Campbell has had a lot of instablility as far a OCs go but, look at his game. Even at Auburn his impressive W-L record and national championship title was helped much by a strong defense and running game (Cadillac Williams and Ronnie Brown). This reveals Campbell strengths. He does a great job making safe reads and takes very few chances with the football. The Skins have had a top 5 defense for most of the years he's started and a very effective running game so, we can afford to be more risky in that regard. Also, even though we have had great defenses, we are not one that have a lot of takeaways, or points off of, as the 2000 Ravens did. And before you say the WR corps was the culprit, Moss, Randle El, and Cooley are better than Cutler's Brandon Marshall, Eddie Royal, and Daniel Graham/Tony Sheffler. I believe Cutler's big numbers are a result of his ability to let it fly (watch what he does in CHI under his new OC and former FA bust Brandon Lloyd and REL-like Devin Hester). Something Campbell doesn't risk doing often. That's why Jay Cutler or a Brett Farve will have a eye-popping number of INTs to go with thier impressive TD stats. Who's to argue that Farve isn't a winner? A franchise QB? A team can surely win with Jason Campbell or a Trent Dilfer but, you have to make sure other attributes of the team make up for the lack of risk taking.

[53Fan]

Another Campbell bashing thread?

[diehard]

Originally Posted by 53Fan

Another Campbell bashing thread?

No. Campbell just doesn't fit where we are right now as a defense. If we commit to him and re-sign him for another multi-year deal we're in for more mediocrity as we'll spend more money and draft picks on FAs trying to make his production go up or get more points off TOs. That's what we've done. He's a great guy and a better QB than more than half of the leagues' starers. My question is to you is: Do you want to get to the next level or continue to be one step away?

[Lotus]

You have Randle El listed as a playmaker?

I agree that JC has to go down field more often and show off that cannon arm. Nonetheless, in a new system in 2008, and behind a creaky OL, JC's qb rating was better than Favre, Flacco, Kerry Collins, and Roethlisberger. His completion percentage was better than Romo, Eli Manning, and Matt Ryan. He also threw for more yards than Eli Manning. And he threw fewer interceptions than just about everyone who starts. JC actually makes more good plays than you give him credit for.

As for bad plays, I will argue against Favre. Except when Green Bay had a solid defense and a good running game in the late '90s, Green Bay was up-and-down with Favre. So were the Jets. Cutler has a sub-.500 record as a starter.

The fact is, Super Bowls are more often won with qb's who are careful with the ball than they are with wild gunslingers. During the course of a 3 or 4 game playoff run, a wild gunslinger is going to kill you, sooner or later, with picks. On this note the 2007 Giants still owe Favre a thank-you card.

[SOUL-SKINS]

GTripp, go easy.

[GTripp0012]

I'm not even going to respond to this. You can't have a playmakers post and not mention Anthony Mix. That's just crazy.

[SC Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by SOUL-SKINS

GTripp, go easy.

GTripp, don't bother. How much more breath must be wasted here?

[diehard]

Originally Posted by Lotus

You have Randle El listed as a playmaker?

Yes. REL is a playmaker. He's proved that before signing with us. Would you say Santonio Holmes or Devin Hester are play makers? The answer is, with the right QB, (Cutler, Roethlisberger) definitely yes.

Originally Posted by Lotus

I agree that JC has to go down field more often and show off that cannon arm. Nonetheless, in a new system in 2008, and behind a creaky OL, JC's qb rating was better than Favre, Flacco, Kerry Collins, and Roethlisberger. His completion percentage was better than Romo, Eli Manning, and Matt Ryan. He also threw for more yards than Eli Manning. And he threw fewer interceptions than just about everyone who starts. JC actually makes more good plays than you give him credit for.

I'm not taking away Campbell's QB rating or his safe decision making. Just as your posts states, QB ratings obviously don't get you into the playoffs. I'd rather have a one of those QBs you mentioned and have a shot at postseason play than have a QB with a perfect QB rating and miss the playoffs.

Originally Posted by Lotus

As for bad plays, I will argue against Favre. Except when Green Bay had a solid defense and a good running game in the late '90s, Green Bay was up-and-down with Favre. So were the Jets. Cutler has a sub-.500 record as a starter.

GB had more winning seasons than losses with Farve and did they ever win the SB? You know the team that Farve is playing on always had a chance, even last years NYJ. As for DEN they were ranked near the bottom as far as defense goes.

Originally Posted by Lotus

The fact is, Super Bowls are more often won with qb's who are careful with the ball than they are with wild gunslingers. During the course of a 3 or 4 game playoff run, a wild gunslinger is going to kill you, sooner or later, with picks. On this note the 2007 Giants still owe Favre a thank-you card.

On the contrary. Defense wins championships. And we don't do a lot of scoring of turnovers (see James Harrison and his low rating QB Roethlsberger)

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I'm not even going to respond to this. You can't have a playmakers post and not mention Anthony Mix. That's just crazy.

[diehard]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I'm not even going to respond to this. You can't have a playmakers post and not mention Anthony Mix. That's just crazy.

What else is there to say. We'll all have to wait and see. Most of you aren't still crying over Patrick Ramsey although he wasn't given a fair chance. And Campbell was always a better prospect than Ramsey.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by diehard

A team can surely win with Jason Campbell or a Trent Dilfer but, you have to make sure other attributes of the team make up for the lack of risk taking.

Hey bro, superbowls are one by a TEAM not a QB.
You can't rob Peter to pay Paul in the NFL and expect to win.
Going after a Cutler or Sanchez might improve the QB.*
But giving up what it would take to get them would surely weaken other areas of the team.

I personally don't think Cutler would have been a sure-fire improvement over Campbell. If you project the trend of Campbell's play in his 1st year with Zorn to Cutler's 3rd year with Shanahan i think the numbers would be similiar and you have to factor in the defenses in the NFC East and the AFC West.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by diehard

Moss? Check.
Cooley? Check.
Randle El (now known as Santonio Holmes)? Check.
Jason Campbell? Hmmm.

I too am warming up to the idea that if we want to get to the promise land it may take drafting Sanchez or probably giving Colt Brennan a shot. Why? It's no secret that Campbell has had a lot of instablility as far a OCs go but, look at his game. Even at Auburn his impressive W-L record and national championship title was helped much by a strong defense and running game (Cadillac Williams and Ronnie Brown). This reveals Campbell strengths. He does a great job making safe reads and takes very few chances with the football. The Skins have had a top 5 defense for most of the years he's started and a very effective running game so, we can afford to be more risky in that regard. Also, even though we have had great defenses, we are not one that have a lot of takeaways, or points off of, as the 2000 Ravens did. And before you say the WR corps was the culprit, Moss, Randle El, and Cooley are better than Cutler's Brandon Marshall, Eddie Royal, and Daniel Graham/Tony Sheffler. I believe Cutler's big numbers are a result of his ability to let it fly (watch what he does in CHI under his new OC and former FA bust Brandon Lloyd and REL-like Devin Hester). Something Campbell doesn't risk doing often. That's why Jay Cutler or a Brett Farve will have a eye-popping number of INTs to go with thier impressive TD stats. Who's to argue that Farve isn't a winner? A franchise QB? A team can surely win with Jason Campbell or a Trent Dilfer but, you have to make sure other attributes of the team make up for the lack of risk taking.

I'd have to strongly disagree here. Marshall is better than Moss. Is there really even an argument over that? Royal is hands down already a better wr than ARE. He had some monster games as a rookie. I don't know his numbers but he was near 100 catches. ARE has never even caught 60. Cooley is better than Tony S. But TE's don't have the same impact as top flight wr's do.

[diehard]

Originally Posted by Lotus

Those three trophies as your avatar are starting to rust. I don't know about y'all but I'm tired of 'eating off' championships of yesteryear. I might as well root for DAL if I have to do that...

[EARTHQUAKE2689]

Originally Posted by diehard

No. Campbell just doesn't fit where we are right now as a defense. If we commit to him and re-sign him for another multi-year deal we're in for more mediocrity as we'll spend more money and draft picks on FAs trying to make his production go up or get more points off TOs. That's what we've done. He's a great guy and a better QB than more than half of the leagues' starers. My question is to you is: Do you want to get to the next level or continue to be one step away?

I didnt know Campbell played defense

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by diehard

What else is there to say. We'll all have to wait and see. Most of you aren't still crying over Patrick Ramsey although he wasn't given a fair chance. And Campbell was always a better prospect than Ramsey.

Originally Posted by diehard

I too am warming up to the idea that if we want to get to the promise land it may take drafting Sanchez or probably giving Colt Brennan a shot.

Wow. Give Colt a shot AND Ramsey wasn't given a fair chance all in one thread. It's like I died and went to Redskins fan QB fantasy hell.