One Night Only: Offensive Packers-Redskins Game Review, Mythbusters Edition

[GTripp0012]

Anbody want to talk about the defense?

Didn't think so.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Anbody want to talk about the defense?

Didn't think so.

I'm more worried about the defense than RG3. Frankly, I expected him to start off slow, not this slow though. The defense is atrociously bad and needs numerous players replaced.

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Anbody want to talk about the defense?

Didn't think so.

We have been talking about the defense:
1) rotten tackling
2) not disrupting routes for receivers with jams at the line, thus allowing for easy completions of things like slants
3) Fletcher not getting it done physically
4) lack of adjustment to Rodgers' three-step drops
5) rookie growing pains
6) rotten tackling
7) rotten tackling

[skinsfaninok]

Bottom line is the entire OFFENSE is playing bad in the 1st half of games, Griffin needs to get it going now or else this season will be a lost cause. We wont come back from a 3-6 start like last season

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by skinsfaninok

Bottom line is the entire OFFENSE is playing bad in the 1st half of games, Griffin needs to get it going now or else this season will be a lost cause. We wont come back from a 3-6 start like last season

It would be awesome if Griffin would play at a pro bowl level the rest of the way...but if he plays like he has the first two weeks the whole season, then this season's not on him.

The Redskins are a struggling team, and that should be the story after two weeks. That's what we can conclude.

[htownskinfan]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Felt like this was necessary today. Not so much based on the Warpath's reaction to yesterday's lost, but the media scrutiny on the team is reaching an unproductive level, and the rosy narratives from the preseason that weren't based on anything of substance have turned sour -- though they remain without substance.

I have a relatively small platform that I am going to use to set the record straight for those who are interested in deeper analysis. I'm not going to fight a war against the crazies: the narrative is still going to win the day. I'm just trying to save a few people some trouble by writing this.

Coaches Tape isn't yet available, so I've done pretty much all this off the broadcast feed. I'm not going to be telling you what percentage cover two the Redskins played. Sorry.

Redskins Myth #1: RG3 isn't 100% healthy and he's hurting the team by playing

This is probably the largest, most aggressive myth about the start to the Redskins season, because you neither need to be a Redskins fan or have watched either of their games this year to hold this opinion. But if you did watch the first half of the Eagles game, and know the Redskins started 0-2, you probably feel very strongly about this.

Futhermore, there are no shortage of people who will go on TV and basically vouch for this conclusion. These are the worst kind of people: analysts who get money to go on TV and be poor analysts. I'd be a hypocrite if I told you don't listen to anything you hear, but at least consider the source.

I can't tell you whether Griffin is 100%. I suspect that from an explosive, sprinter/athlete type of perspective, Griffin isn't going to be like that all year, if ever again. But we don't pay him to be an olympic sprinter, we pay him to be a quarterback. And from the perspective of quarterback, who dealt with injuries and quarterbacked -- he's good. He's healthy. The ball comes out with excellent velocity from a clean pocket. But if you have a Twitter account and follow Redskins beat reporters like John Keim et al, you already knew that, and aren't going to change your mind because of some mouthbreather on television (or four).

Which leads us to the seemingly more glaring issue:

Redskins Myth #2: RG3 has really struggled with throwing from the pocket in both games this season

I mean, if you slipped into a coma at halftime of the Eagles game and awoke from that coma specifically to read this article, 1) thank you and feel better soon, 2) you'd pretty much have nothing to throw you off that conclusion.

For the rest of us, it just depends if you know what you are looking at. Griffin has forced a lot more balls into tight coverage (sometimes foolishly) the first two games, and has shown a general lack of patience. He's also left very, very few plays on the field in that time.

Griffin's biggest issues are consistent with last season, well before the injury. He's struggling at times to move though his progressions with the pocket collapsing around him. His timing from the shotgun short passing game isn't good, and this can affect his accuracy. He's relatively short for a quarterback, and sometimes doesn't get a clear picture of the defense on half field reads. All of these issues are consistent with last year when he won offfensive rookie of the year. In a lot of ways, he's actually more advanced as a pocket passer now than he was last year, against all odds (you do have to throw out the first half of both games to see statistical evidence of this, which is not something I suggest you do).

The single, and possibly only, biggest difference in RG3 2013 and 2012 has nothing to do with throwing from the pocket. It's as a runner, and more generally, extending plays. Griffin has simply not been effective through two games when forced to extend a play. He hasn't risen beyond all reasonable expectation to save a crumbling team. He's mixed it up between throwing the ball away and forcing a pass to a covered receiver. And it's led to underwhelming results, which should not be a surprise.

Overall, Griffin was 26 of 40 for 320 yards, 2 TDs and a pick against Green Bay. If he has that game in a losing effort in October of last season, before the seven game winning streak raised expectations, we're talking about how advanced he is for his age. Dude is 23 years old.

Redskins Myth #3: RG3 is afraid to keep on the Read Option and Kyle Shanahan is not calling it because he is afraid Griffin will get hurt

Kyle Shanahan didn't call the read option as much as you probably remember last year. It was devastatingly effective when he did call it, but he used it carefully last year. He's doing the same this year. I don't think he's sequencing as well this year, and the defenses aren't playing nearly as scared against us this year as they were last year, and Kyle deserves real blame for this. But this isn't a read option issue.

In the handful of read options Griffin has been given this year, somewhere between 4-6 depending on how you define the play, Griffin has handed off every time.

He's made the right read every time. Alfred Morris is averaging better than 5.0 YPC this year on the read option, again, depending on how you define the play.

This is how disciplined teams defend the read option. You force the quarterback to give the football to the back, and you try to make up the numbers in the running game with safeties filling the hole.

I wish Kyle Shanahan would call the RO a lot more than he does, because it's one less defender Morris has to worry about. But Griffin is not going to get to keep very often against disciplined defenses. That's because the quickest way to get gashed on the read option is to let the quarterback outside contain. Making Griffin give to Morris on the option is choosing death by a thousand papercuts as opposed to having Griffin keep on the option, which is quick and painless.

Redskins "Myth" #4: Forget the Read Option. Kyle Shanahan hasn't called any designed runs for RG3. You mean to tell me he's not using his mobility as a weapon at ALL?

Well, pretty much, yeah. This is not a myth. Kyle and Mike have been a bit protective of RG3 -- and by extension themselves -- at the expensive of the team. But this is a minor reason, not a major reason, the Redskins are 0-2.

So wait, if the Redskins offense talent is capable of attacking and constraining defenses the way Philadelphia and Green Bay have done to ours...why have we struggled so poorly in back to back first halves?

So happy you asked, straw man Redskins fan!

The Redskins have done a number of silly things over the last (insert timeframe you are comfortable with here, not exceeding four years) with their personnel and it's lead to some real, undeniable offensive issues.

The pass protection has been a bit of an issue through two games, although the five starters on the OL are all playing better than they did last year. The Redskins have faced a high pct of blitzes from Green Bay and Philadelphia. Last year, teams hardly ever blitzed RG3, because they were terrified he would break contain and beat them down the field with his legs and arm. Combine that with a run heavy offense out of the pistol, and we never really found out how Griffin handled the blitz last year.

Early returns on that this year aren't good. But the real issue is not about Griffin, or the offensive line (our TEs and backs have done a crappy job picking up blitzes, and that's accounted for more than half of the hits on RG3 this season). It's about a total difference in how teams are defending the Redskins. Specifically, man to man coverage with a high safety.

Last year, teams preferred to zone cover the Redskins, because it allowed their defense to keep 11 sets of eyes on RG3. This year, the Eagles went with a lot more man coverage against the Redskins than they had done last season, and enjoyed some success. Cary Williams picking off RG3 in the second half was a great example of a route you expect a Redskins receiver to win on vs. a mediocre corner, combined with a noodle-armed throw, turning a Redskins first down into an Eagles INT and short field.

The Packers though are a zone coverage team, and so when they are playing man coverage on your receivers, they simply don't respect them. With Casey Heyward out, I didn't think GB could or should try to man cover the Redskins.

They did. And they won decisively. Josh Morgan can't separate from anyone. Garcon can and did, but he's inconsistent in doing so. But the guy the lack of zone coverage really hurts is Santana Moss, whose one remaining NFL skill is finding the void in zone coverage before it closes. That was the Redskins go-to on third down last year, now that teams are man covering Washington on third downs, Moss just gets engulfed by whoever is covering him. He's erased from the pattern. Garcon's routes are inconsistent. And too often, the coached leave Hankerson and Fred Davis (!) on the bench on third down with Paulsen and Morgan on the field instead. Bad moves.

Griffin is going to have to pick up some first downs with his feet before the Redskins start seeing a stead diet of zone coverage again, and the offensive line has allowed him to be pinned inside the pocket a bit. The real issue on third down has been the blitz: we're not picking it up, and our receivers aren't freeing up. In the event that one or both of those things happen, there's a good chance the Redskins lined up illegally or held or something that will bring it back.

It's kinda like the 2010 season all over again, from a talent, usage perspective. The Redskins issues are correctable to an extent, but it's not going to be enough to just throw Jordan Reed out there and hope for the best. Reed, Hankerson, Robinson, Helu, and Garcon can all beat man to man coverage quickly on third down, and so the Redskins need to get players who can't or won't (like Josh Morgan) off the field to give themselves enough options to move the chains.

That is what is ailing the offense right now.

I just got finished watching the nfl rewind tape of the last game of reg season with the cowboys.They skip some plays on the nfl rewind but out of the plays I saw the skins used the Pistol formation 35-51 plays.Thats what almost 75% of the time?
Rg3 had terrible game passing,9-18 100yards,BUT out of the pistol he ran it 6 times for 63 yards even with the gimpy knee and brace.Everytime he ran it that I saw he ran it it was for over 8 or 9 yards and picked up a first down on every run,except for the time he ran it 10 yards for a td!

I cant see the pistol working for us this yr with no threat to run at qb and it doesnt look like our team is good enough to overcome it.The pistol covered up a LOT of our problems on the off line last yr.
With defense's blitzing us so much,combine that with our off line,RG3 not running with the ball and his accuracy problems it's just too much to overcome for us SO FAR.
Then combine that with how bad the defense is

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by htownskinfan

I just got finished watching the nfl rewind tape of the last game of reg season with the cowboys.They skip some plays on the nfl rewind but out of the plays I saw the skins used the Pistol formation 35-51 plays.Thats what almost 75% of the time?
Rg3 had terrible game passing,9-18 100yards,BUT out of the pistol he ran it 6 times for 63 yards even with the gimpy knee and brace.Everytime he ran it that I saw he ran it it was for over 8 or 9 yards and picked up a first down on every run,except for the time he ran it 10 yards for a td!

I cant see the pistol working for us this yr with no threat to run at qb and it doesnt look like our team is good enough to overcome it.The pistol covered up a LOT of our problems on the off line last yr.
With defense's blitzing us so much,combine that with our off line,RG3 not running with the ball and his accuracy problems it's just too much to overcome for us SO FAR.
Then combine that with how bad the defense is

The most common play they run from pistol is the stretch. The second most common is their play action series. Read option is probably the most common play after that, but I don't know of any game where they ran it more than five or six times.

I think -- and you point this out -- the fact that the team may not be good enough to overcome some run of the mill offensive struggles is probably the biggest story through two weeks, not RG3's knee/confidence.

[htownskinfan]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

The most common play they run from pistol is the stretch. The second most common is their play action series. Read option is probably the most common play after that, but I don't know of any game where they ran it more than five or six times.

I think -- and you point this out -- the fact that the team may not be good enough to overcome some run of the mill offensive struggles is probably the biggest story through two weeks, not RG3's knee/confidence.

Sorry I was getting the read option confused with the pistol.However,for at least this game they ran the read option more than 5 or 6 times.Rg3 had 6 carries that all came out of the read option,so thats 6 times right there,and thats not counting the times he handed it off to Morris out of the read option

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by htownskinfan

Sorry I was getting the read option confused with the pistol.However,for at least this game they ran the read option more than 5 or 6 times.Rg3 had 6 carries that all came out of the read option,so thats 6 times right there,and thats not counting the times he handed it off to Morris out of the read option

Fair point. Could have been a few more times than I accounted for.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

The most common play they run from pistol is the stretch. The second most common is their play action series. Read option is probably the most common play after that, but I don't know of any game where they ran it more than five or six times.

I think -- and you point this out -- the fact that the team may not be good enough to overcome some run of the mill offensive struggles is probably the biggest story through two weeks, not RG3's knee/confidence.

RG3 may have only ran it 5 or 6 times per game, but the fact remains they used the pistol more and RG3 was a viable threat to run. He could have ran it all 35 times they were in the pistol, although he didn't. This year I just feel opponents are of the mind set of prove to us you can run then we will do something different. Until then we will stack the box and come after you.

Basically their gambling RG3 and the coaching staff will not have him running and it's paid off. The Skins have bluffed and the opponents have called us on it and they won.

"IF" RG3 is healthy then he needs to do what he did last year with caution. Run the ball, slide or get down ahead of time. But be the threat.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

RG3 may have only ran it 5 or 6 times per game, but the fact remains they used the pistol more and RG3 was a viable threat to run. He could have ran it all 35 times they were in the pistol, although he didn't. This year I just feel opponents are of the mind set of prove to us you can run then we will do something different. Until then we will stack the box and come after you.

Basically their gambling RG3 and the coaching staff will not have him running and it's paid off. The Skins have bluffed and the opponents have called us on it and they won.

"IF" RG3 is healthy then he needs to do what he did last year with caution. Run the ball, slide or get down ahead of time. But be the threat.

The biggest difference between what our average opponent did last season and what Green Bay and Philly have done this year is blitz the crap out of us. And, yeah, a blitz heavy gameplan is a really bad idea if the first blitzer who gets to the quarterback can't bring him down -- it's almost certainly going to lead to a big play at that point.

I doubt RG3's knee is strong enough for him to reliably break tackles in the pocket, although that was never really his game to begin with.

The bigger issue is that the pressure schemes we have faced have exposed flaws in the offense. These flaws were probably there last season, but defensive coordinators played scared against us.

This one is on Kyle to show he can scheme against a hyper aggressive defense. We've seen Kyle's offense torch passive defenses for years, regardless of who is playing quarterback. But we haven't seen a lot of plays called that would force defenses to play us straight up.

I thought we started to see some signs of that against Green Bay. WR screens to Garcon, as well as a RB screen or two, and crossing up the defense with runs in potential passing situations are all ways to force a defense out of it's pressure schemes. But until we focus on beating big blitzes, this offense will continue to struggle against them.

Although once RG3 breaks a long run against a big blitz, I predict DCs will go back to playing scared against us, and then things will return to normal.

[The Goat]

The focus on RG, both here and across football media, is overdone. The problems around him, most especially on the sidelines, are far greater than anything amiss in his head or that knee. We've been outcoached thoroughly in two games, the first by a rookie nfl coach. Maybe in a perfect world RG could overcome the issues surrounding him (see last year) but to focus on that is just silly.

[scowan]

Haslett needs to come back downstairs. Where he is is not working and didn't D Hall say something about them not getting the calls in on time? He needs to come back to the sidelines. The young guys need his presence.

[skinsfaninok]

Trending up

Robert Griffin III, Washington Redskins: RGIII took a step forward. Once we get past the histrionic analysis about benching Griffin, there's no denying he was more accurate in Week 2. He made a number of nice throws. His biggest problem came in setting protection and recognizing blitzes.



Pressure overwhelmed the Redskins' offense early in Sunday's game. Teams are blitzing the Redskins with impunity, and Washington doesn't have great answers. But Griffin was down 17-0 against Green Bay before he made a mistake. His interception came off a drop. I'm not a quarterback tutor and won't pretend to analyze his mechanics. But a lot of the issues he's being criticized for (throwing while backpedaling) were evident last season. Griffin made a lot of nice throws to well-covered receivers against the Packers, and that has nothing to do with the score.

The Redskins' problems go beyond RGIII. They are trying to change their offense on the fly. They have called just five zone-read plays in two weeks, with virtually no called runs for Griffin. The running game isn't the same without the threat of RGIII running. It's an adjustment period as the Shanahans figure out how to call games with Griffin 2.0, but it can be done. And they don't have time to adjust because their defense is historically bad.


NFL.COM

[MTK]

Originally Posted by skinsfaninok

Trending up

Robert Griffin III, Washington Redskins: RGIII took a step forward. Once we get past the histrionic analysis about benching Griffin, there's no denying he was more accurate in Week 2. He made a number of nice throws. His biggest problem came in setting protection and recognizing blitzes.



Pressure overwhelmed the Redskins' offense early in Sunday's game. Teams are blitzing the Redskins with impunity, and Washington doesn't have great answers. But Griffin was down 17-0 against Green Bay before he made a mistake. His interception came off a drop. I'm not a quarterback tutor and won't pretend to analyze his mechanics. But a lot of the issues he's being criticized for (throwing while backpedaling) were evident last season. Griffin made a lot of nice throws to well-covered receivers against the Packers, and that has nothing to do with the score.

The Redskins' problems go beyond RGIII. They are trying to change their offense on the fly. They have called just five zone-read plays in two weeks, with virtually no called runs for Griffin. The running game isn't the same without the threat of RGIII running. It's an adjustment period as the Shanahans figure out how to call games with Griffin 2.0, but it can be done. And they don't have time to adjust because their defense is historically bad.


NFL.COM

Sums it up pretty well.