Official Bench Ramsey / Start Brunell Thread

itvnetop · 09-12-2005, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TAFKAS

It should be remembered that the strength of our team is our defense and our running game. It's as simple as that. So while I enjoy seeing big plays and an exciting aerial attack, the best QB for this team is not necessarily one who's going to be make SportsCenter's Top 10. It's someone who puts the game in the hands of our defense and running game, and doesn't take opportunities away from them. I believe Ramsey is fully capable of being that QB. He doesn't need to be a superstar highlight reel to lead this team. Just a smart QB.

This is exactly what I was thinking... I just believe Gibbs doesn't trust Ramsey's decision-making skills quite yet. Yesterday, he proved he can move the ball against a solid defense. But he still hasn't shown he can not turn the ball over.

I'm not sure increased game experience can fix the problems that Ramsey has right now- it's not a matter of him growing in the offense... it comes down to keeping the ball out of the defense's possession. It's smarts that Gibbs feels shouldn't be gained during Sundays at full tilt.

BleedBurgundy · 09-12-2005, 01:34 AM

I am going to disagree with the notion that the O is smoother with Brunnell under center. Ramsey had just gotten settled into the game, was driving the team, had a touchdown called back because of phantom offensive pass interference and got clotheslined on a play that was ignored by the zebras. Brunell managed not to fuck things up. That's not the definition I want of our STARTING quarterback, that's a back-up, plain and simple.

12thMan · 09-12-2005, 01:37 AM

Well seeing that's basically what his role was when he went into the game, it's good he didn't screw up. And it's not like Brunell is calling the plays anyway. But I still stick by my initial statement.

That Guy · 09-12-2005, 03:47 AM

I think i agree with most, leave ramsey in, he's got more big plays (but is inconsistant)... and be thankful brunell can serve as a good backup.

I'm not really happy with the level of play coming out of the QBs, I think brunell is on the decline and it takes a long time to figure out if a QB is any good (mcnabb and manning lost bunches of games), but I really don't know how much talent we have there right now total. Hopefully campbell learns how to read defenses so he can clear the issue up in the next two years, and hopefully ramsey can limit the turnovers until then.

The scheme is MUCH better this year, I didn't want to break my TV once this game, but I'd really like to leave ramsey in because brunell seems to refuse to try and attack opposing defenses.

e16bball · 09-12-2005, 04:59 AM

Brunell did his job. He's a backup. I can't see why the media, fans, and even Joe Gibbs himself can't be satisfied with that. Ramsey had the first pick that was bad, no doubt, although I have no idea why there were two WRs practically side-by-side...you'll note if you watch the replay that it was actually Patten's defender who catches the overthrow, and I have to think David was supposed to run him off.

In any case, aside from the pick and a few early struggles, Ramsey looked pretty damn good, I thought. He looked very efficient, and even converted some 3rd and longs, which we simply NEVER did last season. He would have had a TD had Cooley not been called for a ridiculous PI, and he quite frankly outplayed Brunell easily. I still don't know why everyone thinks Brunell was a different player out there; I saw the same QB with better arm strength. He is simply not dynamic, and will not LEAD this team to victories. He may keep us from losing a few, but this team is not good enough to go into games TRYING NOT TO LOSE. We have to go into games cutting it loose, playing a bit recklessly at times even, not simply settling for safe 4 yard dumpoffs, and more importantly, not settling for the mindset that goes along with those 4 yarders. As much as I hate to say it, Gibbs needs to take a miniscule page from the Ol' Ball Coach's book and let Patrick go out there and "play a little pitch and catch." He excels in that sort of role, as we saw today, and it would open things up wide for Clinton and Ladell.

That's my two cents, anyway, and two cents is just about what it's worth.

skinsfan0201 · 09-12-2005, 06:49 AM

12th man: RUNS better, as in OFFENSE running better, I don't think I understand your definition of offense running better, given that when Ramsey was in last year the team preceded to go 3-2 the remaining 5 games, whereas Brunell was incapable of getting anything going and is still relying on our running backs to do anything offense. In addition the Redskins are more versatile with Ramsey and the passing game in there. Furthermore, I am a little tired of fans always ready to bench or get rid of a guy that has not been given a true chance. RE: Trent Green, or Rich Gannon.

Where is your faith? If you were really supporting Ramsey "for the most part (ha ha)" you would opportune him a little more than a few series to prove his worth. In addition, he settled down after that few series yesterday. In my opinion, if you don't start Ramsey you will never know the full capability of a guy that we drafted in the first round a little over 3 years ago.

skinsfan0201 · 09-12-2005, 06:53 AM

In addition, doesn't this all seem like a little deja vu to you 12th man .....

skinsfan0201 · 09-12-2005, 06:56 AM

where would the commitment be to a guy that Gibbs promised would be the starter at the beginning of this season and in addition Ramsey did nothing for his job to be dramatically stripped from him in the second week of the season. Furthermore, Brunell did nothing yesterday to earn the starting quarterback role back given his performance yesterday.

Hog1 · 09-12-2005, 08:39 AM

I have watched Ramsey over the past few years like everyone else. I was really excited when we drafted him. Big arm, tough! Gonna' take us to the next level in the model of Brett Farve! However, even with obvious chances to take the team, and establish himself as the uncontested starter, he has failed thus far. It's not my call to determine who should be the starter, and I want him to make it. The mistakes he makes REPEATEDLY are horrific and always at a catastrophic moment! We might argue, he has been jerked around by 18 different coaches and schemes, confidence shot, Gibbs doesn't like him, etc. Gibbs LOVES the QB who can PROVE he deserves it, like we all do. With all the confusion over the past couple of years that is responsible for Ramseys lack of confidence. so what? It doesn't matter. Just like the addiction commercial of a few years ago said " It's not your fault, but it is your problem". Such is the case for Ramsey. I have been a big fan of his and still am, however, at this time I am not sure he has it. Many QB's have made successful careers of doing what they know how to, and NOT killing their teams by doing the same drive KILLING stupid stuff. That may be the opening for Brunell. I did not see the game, but by the look of things, we have a running game. That with our D and a decent passing game, that sould be enough (Ala' Carolina). This may give us time to unf...k PR or move on with Jason. Just food for thought!!!!!!!!!!1

celts32 · 09-12-2005, 01:30 PM

I am torn. I think Brunell gives the team a better chance to win in Dallas, but I also don't think Ramsey did enough to lose the starting job in a little over a quarter of football...

That said, I think I would start brunell...it's about wins and losses in pro football not about whats fair to Pat...

TheMalcolmConnection · 09-12-2005, 01:34 PM

I'm torn also. I think that Dallas's defense is VERY easy to beat. Brunell thus far, has shown he is extremely accurate with short and intermediate passes while Ramsey can hit the deep ball or at least draw some PI calls. Basically, it's a pick your poison type of choice. I think that as long as we keep the turnovers down, we have a very good shot at this game.

As Gibbs has stressed time and time again, turnovers are the key. Score minus turnovers/bonehead (or BS) penalties: 16-0.

jermus22 · 09-12-2005, 01:55 PM

I'm surprised we're actually talking about a qb change this early.

jermus22 · 09-12-2005, 01:59 PM

IMO Gibbs should continue to let Ramsey start but keep him on a short leash. He did get decent yardage for only 1 1/2 quarters of play, but his interception and two fumbles are unacceptable (guess you can't blame him for the one since Briggs should've been called for a clothesline). If he can avoid turnovers and continue to move the offense effectively, he deserves to start. It would be rotten to demote the guy for getting injured. Brunell was decent, and I'm confident with him as a backup, but he didn't exactly put up a lot of points. If Ramsey falters badly in the next three games, then we should go to Brunell.

skinsfan0201 · 09-12-2005, 02:11 PM

True it is not what is completely fair to Pat (though Gibbs should keep his word). Though in addition, in response to who gives the Redskins the best chance to win, overall Pat has a better record than Brunell in that catagory over the past season.

eppykid · 09-12-2005, 02:35 PM

Ramsey deserves the start if healthy. I'm not convinced that the receiver didn't partially cause his interception by going outside instead of in. In addition, Ramsey made some nice throws. His arm is much stronger than Brunell. He should be afforded more than a quarter of football prior to losing his job.

View Poll Results: Assuming Ramsey is healthy, who's your starter for week 2?
Ramsey	57	76.00%
Brunell	18	24.00%
Voters: 75. You may not vote on this poll

09-12-2005, 01:34 AM	#2
BleedBurgundy Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 4,471	Re: Official Bench Ramsey / Start Brunell Thread I am going to disagree with the notion that the O is smoother with Brunnell under center. Ramsey had just gotten settled into the game, was driving the team, had a touchdown called back because of phantom offensive pass interference and got clotheslined on a play that was ignored by the zebras. Brunell managed not to fuck things up. That's not the definition I want of our STARTING quarterback, that's a back-up, plain and simple.

09-12-2005, 01:37 AM	#3
12thMan MVP Join Date: May 2005 Location: washington, D.C. Posts: 11,460	Re: Official Bench Ramsey / Start Brunell Thread Well seeing that's basically what his role was when he went into the game, it's good he didn't screw up. And it's not like Brunell is calling the plays anyway. But I still stick by my initial statement.

09-12-2005, 03:47 AM	#4
That Guy Living Legend Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: VA Age: 42 Posts: 17,620	Re: Official Bench Ramsey / Start Brunell Thread I think i agree with most, leave ramsey in, he's got more big plays (but is inconsistant)... and be thankful brunell can serve as a good backup. I'm not really happy with the level of play coming out of the QBs, I think brunell is on the decline and it takes a long time to figure out if a QB is any good (mcnabb and manning lost bunches of games), but I really don't know how much talent we have there right now total. Hopefully campbell learns how to read defenses so he can clear the issue up in the next two years, and hopefully ramsey can limit the turnovers until then. The scheme is MUCH better this year, I didn't want to break my TV once this game, but I'd really like to leave ramsey in because brunell seems to refuse to try and attack opposing defenses.

09-12-2005, 04:59 AM	#5
e16bball Special Teams Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 163	Re: Official Bench Ramsey / Start Brunell Thread Brunell did his job. He's a backup. I can't see why the media, fans, and even Joe Gibbs himself can't be satisfied with that. Ramsey had the first pick that was bad, no doubt, although I have no idea why there were two WRs practically side-by-side...you'll note if you watch the replay that it was actually Patten's defender who catches the overthrow, and I have to think David was supposed to run him off. In any case, aside from the pick and a few early struggles, Ramsey looked pretty damn good, I thought. He looked very efficient, and even converted some 3rd and longs, which we simply NEVER did last season. He would have had a TD had Cooley not been called for a ridiculous PI, and he quite frankly outplayed Brunell easily. I still don't know why everyone thinks Brunell was a different player out there; I saw the same QB with better arm strength. He is simply not dynamic, and will not LEAD this team to victories. He may keep us from losing a few, but this team is not good enough to go into games TRYING NOT TO LOSE. We have to go into games cutting it loose, playing a bit recklessly at times even, not simply settling for safe 4 yard dumpoffs, and more importantly, not settling for the mindset that goes along with those 4 yarders. As much as I hate to say it, Gibbs needs to take a miniscule page from the Ol' Ball Coach's book and let Patrick go out there and "play a little pitch and catch." He excels in that sort of role, as we saw today, and it would open things up wide for Clinton and Ladell. That's my two cents, anyway, and two cents is just about what it's worth.

09-12-2005, 06:49 AM	#6
skinsfan0201 Special Teams Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Falls Church, VA Age: 46 Posts: 234	Re: Official Bench Ramsey / Start Brunell Thread 12th man: RUNS better, as in OFFENSE running better, I don't think I understand your definition of offense running better, given that when Ramsey was in last year the team preceded to go 3-2 the remaining 5 games, whereas Brunell was incapable of getting anything going and is still relying on our running backs to do anything offense. In addition the Redskins are more versatile with Ramsey and the passing game in there. Furthermore, I am a little tired of fans always ready to bench or get rid of a guy that has not been given a true chance. RE: Trent Green, or Rich Gannon. Where is your faith? If you were really supporting Ramsey "for the most part (ha ha)" you would opportune him a little more than a few series to prove his worth. In addition, he settled down after that few series yesterday. In my opinion, if you don't start Ramsey you will never know the full capability of a guy that we drafted in the first round a little over 3 years ago.

09-12-2005, 06:53 AM	#7
skinsfan0201 Special Teams Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Falls Church, VA Age: 46 Posts: 234	Re: Official Bench Ramsey / Start Brunell Thread In addition, doesn't this all seem like a little deja vu to you 12th man .....

09-12-2005, 06:56 AM	#8
skinsfan0201 Special Teams Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Falls Church, VA Age: 46 Posts: 234	Re: Official Bench Ramsey / Start Brunell Thread where would the commitment be to a guy that Gibbs promised would be the starter at the beginning of this season and in addition Ramsey did nothing for his job to be dramatically stripped from him in the second week of the season. Furthermore, Brunell did nothing yesterday to earn the starting quarterback role back given his performance yesterday.

09-12-2005, 08:39 AM	#9
Hog1 Quietly Dominating the East Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Naples, Florida Posts: 10,675	Re: Official Bench Ramsey / Start Brunell Thread I have watched Ramsey over the past few years like everyone else. I was really excited when we drafted him. Big arm, tough! Gonna' take us to the next level in the model of Brett Farve! However, even with obvious chances to take the team, and establish himself as the uncontested starter, he has failed thus far. It's not my call to determine who should be the starter, and I want him to make it. The mistakes he makes REPEATEDLY are horrific and always at a catastrophic moment! We might argue, he has been jerked around by 18 different coaches and schemes, confidence shot, Gibbs doesn't like him, etc. Gibbs LOVES the QB who can PROVE he deserves it, like we all do. With all the confusion over the past couple of years that is responsible for Ramseys lack of confidence. so what? It doesn't matter. Just like the addiction commercial of a few years ago said " It's not your fault, but it is your problem". Such is the case for Ramsey. I have been a big fan of his and still am, however, at this time I am not sure he has it. Many QB's have made successful careers of doing what they know how to, and NOT killing their teams by doing the same drive KILLING stupid stuff. That may be the opening for Brunell. I did not see the game, but by the look of things, we have a running game. That with our D and a decent passing game, that sould be enough (Ala' Carolina). This may give us time to unf...k PR or move on with Jason. Just food for thought!!!!!!!!!!1

09-12-2005, 01:30 PM	#10
celts32 Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Hackettstown NJ Age: 54 Posts: 2,665	Re: Official Bench Ramsey / Start Brunell Thread I am torn. I think Brunell gives the team a better chance to win in Dallas, but I also don't think Ramsey did enough to lose the starting job in a little over a quarter of football... That said, I think I would start brunell...it's about wins and losses in pro football not about whats fair to Pat... __________________ Section 116 Row 19 “Goal line, goal line. I-left, tight wing, 70 chip on white.” www.facebook.com/HackettstownBeerClub

09-12-2005, 01:34 PM	#11
TheMalcolmConnection I like big (_\|_)s. Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Charlottesville, Virginia Age: 43 Posts: 19,264	Re: Official Bench Ramsey / Start Brunell Thread I'm torn also. I think that Dallas's defense is VERY easy to beat. Brunell thus far, has shown he is extremely accurate with short and intermediate passes while Ramsey can hit the deep ball or at least draw some PI calls. Basically, it's a pick your poison type of choice. I think that as long as we keep the turnovers down, we have a very good shot at this game. As Gibbs has stressed time and time again, turnovers are the key. Score minus turnovers/bonehead (or BS) penalties: 16-0. __________________ Regret nothing. At one time it was exactly what you wanted.

09-12-2005, 01:55 PM	#12
jermus22 Special Teams Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Frankfort, KY Age: 43 Posts: 336	Re: Official Bench Ramsey / Start Brunell Thread I'm surprised we're actually talking about a qb change this early. __________________ Win it in the trenches.

09-12-2005, 01:59 PM	#13
jermus22 Special Teams Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Frankfort, KY Age: 43 Posts: 336	Re: Official Bench Ramsey / Start Brunell Thread IMO Gibbs should continue to let Ramsey start but keep him on a short leash. He did get decent yardage for only 1 1/2 quarters of play, but his interception and two fumbles are unacceptable (guess you can't blame him for the one since Briggs should've been called for a clothesline). If he can avoid turnovers and continue to move the offense effectively, he deserves to start. It would be rotten to demote the guy for getting injured. Brunell was decent, and I'm confident with him as a backup, but he didn't exactly put up a lot of points. If Ramsey falters badly in the next three games, then we should go to Brunell. __________________ Win it in the trenches.

09-12-2005, 02:11 PM	#14
skinsfan0201 Special Teams Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Falls Church, VA Age: 46 Posts: 234	Re: Official Bench Ramsey / Start Brunell Thread True it is not what is completely fair to Pat (though Gibbs should keep his word). Though in addition, in response to who gives the Redskins the best chance to win, overall Pat has a better record than Brunell in that catagory over the past season.

09-12-2005, 02:35 PM	#15
eppykid Camp Scrub Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Baltimore, Maryland Age: 58 Posts: 6	Re: Official Bench Ramsey / Start Brunell Thread Ramsey deserves the start if healthy. I'm not convinced that the receiver didn't partially cause his interception by going outside instead of in. In addition, Ramsey made some nice throws. His arm is much stronger than Brunell. He should be afforded more than a quarter of football prior to losing his job.

Official Bench Ramsey / Start Brunell Thread

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