Redskins trade for Free Safety Dashon Goldson

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by Irrefutable

The Redskins do not have a game until September, so the projected April starter is moot. Rosters are now about 90 players, so Free Safetys will be cut. Hall is a question mark at FS, he might be good. Goldson has been bad for a few years, expecting him to revert to high caliber play is a long shot.

Bring in as many veterans as you can, draft a FS or two, sign UDFAs, move CBs and SS to FS , and see who emerges. There is no Sean Taylor in the draft, but there are probably a few solid ones.

Doesn't basically trading nothing for Goldson fall solidly in the "Bring in as many veterans as you can" category?

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by Irrefutable

The Redskins do not have a game until September, so the projected April starter is moot.

Not in any way responsive to the questions posed, but, okay.

Originally Posted by Irrefutable

Rosters are now about 90 players, so Free Safetys will be cut.

Again, not in any way responsive to the questions posed, but, yes, inevitably safeties will be cut. I would suggest - with a high degree of confidence - that neither Goldson nor Johnson will be among them for all the reasons previously cited.

Originally Posted by Irrefutable

Hall is a question mark at FS, he might be good.

So might Breeland or Goldson or a rookie. Why bet on Hall rather than these other options? You can't even parrot a blatantly clichéd basis in support of your assertion that Hall "might be good." He might suck. In fact, there is ample to reason to believe he might suck badly at FS. Given his lack of experience at the position, his past history of biting on double moves, and his willingness to take risks by going for all or nothing in coverage (oh, and his return from a season ending injury at age 31), there is a significant basis to believe he lacks the mindset to play a position requiring him to see the field and act as the last line of defense.

Again, other than wild-ass speculation, give some solid reason to believe that banking on the possibility Hall "might be good" is a sound basis for addressing the FS position in either the short term or the long term.

Originally Posted by Irrefutable

Goldson has been bad for a few years, expecting him to revert to high caliber play is a long shot.

"Bad for a few years"?! He had two bad years in Tampa after two pro bowl years in SF. In SF, he played a one-high safety position but, in TBay, he was playing as a cover two safety - different schemes emphasizing different abilities and skill sets. Two years removed from pro-bowl play, and after being removed a poor scheme fit, Why is it a "long shot" to expect that Goldson's play will improve enough to be better than any other option out there? or, at least, an upgrade over last year.

As to that, show me where ANYONE who is providing a positive review of this move based on an expectation that Goldson will "revert to high caliber play." The "expectation" that I have seen is that he will "revert" to "better than the sh** we had last year" play. For a guy two years removed from the pro-bowl and leaving a poor scheme fit, that doesn't seem like a "long shot" to me. It's not a guarantee, but I'm not seeing a better gamble out there.

Ultimately, taken in conjunction with your wild speculation that Hall "might be good" because we don't know he will suck, your reasoning is just painfully obtuse. The risk presented by Goldson being able to provide a short term upgrade at FS is a significantly smaller one than your "close my eyes and blindly hope the aging CB coming back from a season ending injury can switch to safety" plan.

Originally Posted by Irrefutable

Bring in as many veterans as you can, draft a FS or two, sign UDFAs, move CBs and SS to FS , and see who emerges. There is no Sean Taylor in the draft, but there are probably a few solid ones.

Move guys, sign guys, draft guys? Holy Crap! That's brilliant! Why didn't I think of that?? You're right! That is a much better plan than the one Scot McC seems to have been operating under!

Couple questions ...

Move guys? Who are we moving and, once moved, who are replacing them with?

Sign guys? What veterans should we sign and how much will they cost? How would any of the veterans available in this UFA period be a better option as an upgrade from last year than Goldson/Johnson/Culliver? What cheaper options were out there now? How is any one of these moves [Goldson/Johnson/Culliver] something to be criticized in light the available veteran options - and the salaries they have been signing for - and your amorphous assertion that we should "Bring in as many veterans as you can [and] sign UDFAs"?

Draft guys? So, in a year when the safety pool is bad, your plan is to draft two of them? Excellent planning - that's some real long term thinking right there man. Just a follow-up though ... Who are the solid ones that you think might be starter ready such that trading for Goldson and his $4M cap hit was in any way a bad move?

See who emerges? ummmm, okay. Isn't that what we are doing? Like you said, regardless of who's on the roster today, final cut down is in September. Are you suggesting that having an expectation when you sign certain players that they will be the guys who "emerge" is a bad thing? Rather, we should just randomly sign/draft players without any expectation that they will fill or address a particular role? Well, hey, it's a little out of the box but, if that's your method of long term planning who am I to argue with you Mr. Cerratto.

...

As I stated originally, you have bitched, moaned and poor-mouthed just about every move Scot McC has made so far. I asked a simple question: Specifically, how you would have done better than McC has done so far and you got nothing but bs platitudes and generalities.

Your name fits. Avoiding simple questions, falling back on speculation, cherry picked facts, and broad rhetorical platitudes makes you truly and absolutely irrefutable.

[DYoungJelly]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

Seriously, tell me your plan at safety? Not what we should have done two years ago. Not who we should have drafted or signed last year. Tell me, given the current situation - the one Scot McC walked into - how you would have done better: Who you would have signed, for how much, and who you would draft.

And before you just once again assert that D.Hall is the better option at FS, you do realize he is a year older (31) than Goldson (30) and has never done more than spot duty at the position as opposed to Goldson who has played the position since entering the NFL. While there are similarities in the CB/S positions in that both are DBs, CB and Safety are NOT interchangeable and require different mind sets, different physical skill sets, and different recognition skills - you're big on past stats taken in isolation, find me D. Hall's stats in the FS position (only). How many pro-bowls has D.Hall been to as a FS? Goldson went to two - 2011, 2012. Alternatively, show me some solid analysis that D.Hall will have an easy transition to the free safety role such that he is more likely to be an improvement over last year's play than Goldson will.

Also, so DHall moves to FS, making Amerson the 3rd CB - that's a pretty gutsy call on your part given his play last year. What's your plan for depth in the defensive backfield? Seriously. What's your plan for depth at safety and cornerback if we don't make the trade for Goldson? If it involves rookies - tell me why you think counting on a rookie to step into any regular role in the backfield is better than counting on Hall or Breeland to be the depth guy.

As to SS, what rookie safety are you drafting that is an instant starter? When do you draft him? You realize that the consistent opinion of every reasonable draft analyst is that this year's safety class is pretty barren. Where are you finding this diamond in the rough SS that is less of a risk than J. Johnson is at the position? If not a rookie, what is your plan for SS? What UFA would you have signed given your constant whining about the cap?

All you have done is poor mouth every move that McC has made in the defensive backfield and whined about salary cap room. I have yet to see one well thought out idea from you as to how you would improve on the moves made so far this year. McC walked into crap and appears to have made solid moves to improve that situation both from a talent and salary cap perspective.

Tell me how you would have done better.

Fantastic observation! Your analysis strips away all the bs and sees the situation for what it is now, not what it could have been.

I'm with ya. SM is dealing in the now and using FA as it should be when in complete rebuild mode. He is making solid, yet economical signings.

This is a 1 year $4m deal that we are out of next season if it goes poorly. If Goldson is SM's type of player he may be here longer with a restructure.

Several posts have noted that Tampa did not use Goldson correctly or in the alternative, he did not fit their Tampa 2 system. I would love to read more discussion and debate on the nuts and bolts of his role with Tampa.

[skinsy]

Dashon Golson=Brandon Merriweather. Both are often fined head hunters with terrible coverage skills.

[SFREDSKIN]

Originally Posted by SirLK26

Is Chris Conte An Upgrade Over Goldson? - Bucs Nation




Meh. Low cost, but I'm not expecting anything good either.

No way!! Conte sucks, He gets burnt a lot and is slow. We got the better end of the deal, another reason to be happy we didn't get Lovie as our coach.

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by SFREDSKIN

No way!! Conte sucks, He gets burnt a lot and is slow. We got the better end of the deal, another reason to be happy we didn't get Lovie as our coach.

Was it goat or cult that had a hard-on for lovie? One of them right now is typing somewhere how lovie just punked the skins with this trade...

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

Was it goat or cult that had a hard-on for lovie? One of them right now is typing somewhere how lovie just punked the skins with this trade...

It was Goat.

Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk

[mooby]

Cost wise this feels like a solid move, but performance wise I'm not sure he'll be any better than Clark. When we got Clark everyone was saying he should be solid for a couple years, and instead he was terrible. This feels like another stopgap move, hopefully we get 1 good season out of him. I'm not upset about it because we really didn't give up anything to get him.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by mooby

Cost wise this feels like a solid move, but performance wise I'm not sure he'll be any better than Clark. When we got Clark everyone was saying he should be solid for a couple years, and instead he was terrible. This feels like another stopgap move, hopefully we get 1 good season out of him. I'm not upset about it because we really didn't give up anything to get him.

Anytime you sign a player that's 30+ it is a stopgap move. If I remember correctly, a lot of people were wondering if Clark had anything left in the tank when we signed him. I'm not saying that Goldson is going to be an all-pro, but I don't see this that similar to our acquisition of Clark.

[Stacks42]

I like this guys attitude:

“Now to my new team, the Washington Redskins. I want you all to kno how excited my family and I are to be part of this strong organization. Ive been a fan of the team for awhile. One of my favorite players (Sean Taylor) set the tone for the position for years there. I’m not Sean but Im honored to be patrolling the same playgrounds as he did. I’ll do my best on makin him happy from the position as he watches down on us as a secondary. To the fans this is gonna be a fun and exciting ride. Our goal as a team will be simply to whoop ass and take W(wins). Those who dnt know much about me I luv to play this game. I will bring an attitude for sure to this defense. With the experience and knowledge Ive accumulated throughout I will do everything to make those better around me. My goal will be for us to have the same heartbeat as a team and ESP as a defense cuz that’s where it starts. With that bein said #HAIL TO THE REDSKINS!"

via twitter Dashon Goldson

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by Stacks42

I like this guys attitude:

“Now to my new team, the Washington Redskins. I want you all to kno how excited my family and I are to be part of this strong organization. Ive been a fan of the team for awhile. One of my favorite players (Sean Taylor) set the tone for the position for years there. I’m not Sean but Im honored to be patrolling the same playgrounds as he did. I’ll do my best on makin him happy from the position as he watches down on us as a secondary. To the fans this is gonna be a fun and exciting ride. Our goal as a team will be simply to whoop ass and take W(wins). Those who dnt know much about me I luv to play this game. I will bring an attitude for sure to this defense. With the experience and knowledge Ive accumulated throughout I will do everything to make those better around me. My goal will be for us to have the same heartbeat as a team and ESP as a defense cuz that’s where it starts. With that bein said #HAIL TO THE REDSKINS!"

via twitter Dashon Goldson

this gets me pumped!

Washington Redskins hope Dashon Goldson solves long-time safety issue - Washington Redskins Blog - ESPN

Keim saying Goldson is great in the lockerroom

[EARTHQUAKE2689]

Originally Posted by Stacks42

I like this guys attitude:

“Now to my new team, the Washington Redskins. I want you all to kno how excited my family and I are to be part of this strong organization. Ive been a fan of the team for awhile. One of my favorite players (Sean Taylor) set the tone for the position for years there. I’m not Sean but Im honored to be patrolling the same playgrounds as he did. I’ll do my best on makin him happy from the position as he watches down on us as a secondary. To the fans this is gonna be a fun and exciting ride. Our goal as a team will be simply to whoop ass and take W(wins). Those who dnt know much about me I luv to play this game. I will bring an attitude for sure to this defense. With the experience and knowledge Ive accumulated throughout I will do everything to make those better around me. My goal will be for us to have the same heartbeat as a team and ESP as a defense cuz that’s where it starts. With that bein said #HAIL TO THE REDSKINS!"

via twitter Dashon Goldson

Isn't Twitter 140 characters?

[Defensewins]

Originally Posted by mooby

Cost wise this feels like a solid move, but performance wise I'm not sure he'll be any better than Clark. When we got Clark everyone was saying he should be solid for a couple years, and instead he was terrible. This feels like another stopgap move, hopefully we get 1 good season out of him. I'm not upset about it because we really didn't give up anything to get him.

There is a big difference:
The secondary teammates of Clark the prior two seasons were really weak. A terrible CB Wilson (2 years ago), a struggling Amerson, a terrible E.J Biggers, a rookie Breeland, injury prone Merriweather and a good D. Hall. Once Hall was injured the wheels fell off the secondary and defense last season.

We now have a capable set of CB's in Culliver, Breeland, D. Hall and Amerson (still struggling) off the bench. Plus a new SS in Jeron Johnson. This makes Goldson's life a lot easier compared to Clark's.
Add that Culliver and Goldson have played together before. Plus from what Jeron Johnson's former teammates and coaching staff are saying about Jeron, he will be an improvement over what we had.
We went from a terrible secondary to one that is improved and we still have the draft and #5 pick coming up soon.

[over the mountain]

Originally Posted by mooby

Cost wise this feels like a solid move, but performance wise I'm not sure he'll be any better than Clark. When we got Clark everyone was saying he should be solid for a couple years, and instead he was terrible. This feels like another stopgap move, hopefully we get 1 good season out of him. I'm not upset about it because we really didn't give up anything to get him.

pretty sure the consensus was that Clark was a 1 year stopgap but an upgrade over Rambo/thomas.

now the consensus is that Goldson is a 1 year stopgap but an upgrade over retired Clark.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by over the mountain

pretty sure the consensus was that Clark was a 1 year stopgap but an upgrade over Rambo/thomas.

now the consensus is that Goldson is a 1 year stopgap but an upgrade over retired Clark.

This.