The Anti-Media Media

Schneed10 · 10-20-2005, 10:58 PM

I guess to sum up my thoughts, I like the Post for it's coverage of the team when it's reporting objectively. I like the Warpath because it has, in my opinion, the smartest, most civilized, and well-educated fans, which makes for very stimulating debate and discussion. (and I LOVE the inside info you're able to get us, Joe) I like ExtremeSkins.com because when I read the column they post on Redskins.com, it always makes me feel warm and fuzzy about the Skins, even if it's biased.

Some sources provide information, some sources allow for fruitful discussion, and some sources just plain make me feel good. I like them all.

But I'm here at the Warpath more often than all of them.

BigSKINBauer · 10-20-2005, 11:20 PM

The only two problems i have had with the extremeskins thing with the skins so far is

1. Joe got his fan reporter credits taken away --this i was seriously pissed about

2. Just a couple paragraphs in the one article posted on Redskins.com about arrington-this is such a small thing but while i agree with what the author was saying i don't think that there should be a division among fans between right and wrong. EXPECIALLY on redskins.com. I don't care if people here, at extremeskins, hogs.net, hailredskins or anyother place called a certain group of fans stupid but it being on redskins.com just erked me. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, even if the opinion is that everyone that disagrees with them are dumbasses, but it shouldn't be on redskins.com. Basically i am much more mad at the redskins than at the writer because the writer has an opinion but we are all fans and the redskins shouldn't start dividing us to build their self image(propaganda)

Other than that 1 big thing about joe and that one article i love everything else. There is nothing not to like as fans as we get interviews, pictures, and media attention.

ExtremeArt · 10-20-2005, 11:23 PM

Joe,

I just wanted to say I'm sorry things didn't work out better for you. I have always promoted your work. When we were able to become part of the Redskins I even engaged in discussions to bring you on board as we needed experience and local guys to help us out since we're missing out on a lot of stuff we could be doing by being short-staffed.

Unfortunately, you developed something of a negative reaction with many at Redskins Park who felt you were obtrusive and self-serving. I have heard stories about how uncomfortable you made some people with your self-promotion to them and that you were absolutely not going to be part of our efforts. I was surprised to hear this and think no less of you for having heard it.

I just think it's unfortunate you have developed a negative view of us for accomplishing something you wanted to accomplish but were unable to. One thing going for us, to be fair, is the team was never looking for "fan journalists". It had all the journalists it could handle and it had all the fans it could handle. It didn't need fans acting like reporters. It wanted fans acting like fans.

As you know, the "press" box is not just for "press". It's for PR folks, scouts, writers from team sites, etc. There are lots of people who are not in the professional media, with strong team ties, who are in every press box there is. The media has rules it is responsible for abiding by. A team scout isn't bound by the same. I think you know this. I hope you do.

I'm sorry you feel as upset with us. We've always considered you a friend who we've promoted. We will continue to do so. With hope, you'll come to forgive us.

FRPLG · 10-20-2005, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ExtremeArt

Joe,

I just wanted to say I'm sorry things didn't work out better for you. I have always promoted your work. When we were able to become part of the Redskins I even engaged in discussions to bring you on board as we needed experience and local guys to help us out since we're missing out on a lot of stuff we could be doing by being short-staffed.

Unfortunately, you developed something of a negative reaction with many at Redskins Park who felt you were obtrusive and self-serving. I have heard stories about how uncomfortable you made some people with your self-promotion to them and that you were absolutely not going to be part of our efforts. I was surprised to hear this and think no less of you for having heard it.

I just think it's unfortunate you have developed a negative view of us for accomplishing something you wanted to accomplish but were unable to. One thing going for us, to be fair, is the team was never looking for "fan journalists". It had all the journalists it could handle and it had all the fans it could handle. It didn't need fans acting like reporters. It wanted fans acting like fans.

As you know, the "press" box is not just for "press". It's for PR folks, scouts, writers from team sites, etc. There are lots of people who are not in the professional media, with strong team ties, who are in every press box there is. The media has rules it is responsible for abiding by. A team scout isn't bound by the same. I think you know this. I hope you do.

I'm sorry you feel as upset with us. We've always considered you a friend who we've promoted. We will continue to do so. With hope, you'll come to forgive us.

Well if anyone really felt this way about Joe then they are a dumb shit! He gets his passes pulled for no damn reason like the day before camp and they expected him to be like "well that's life". WTF?
Joe is about being a responsible journalist (wheteher they want it or not) and not about being a fan who writes fluff articles. The difference is he can write fair and balanced articles from the perspective of a journalist all the while holding a loyalty to the team. Maybe that loyalty would hold him in check when barraged by the anti-Snder crowd. Seems to me that maybe that is EXACTLY what the skins should want.
And it is contradictory to say they want a fan's prespective not a fan journalists' and then group them together when handing out passes. He is either a journalist or a fan to them and in the former case he should have gotten passes like other journalists and in the other he got screwed for no good damn reason.

ExtremeArt · 10-20-2005, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FRPLG

Well if anyone really felt this way about Joe then they are a dumb shit! He gets his passes pulled for no damn reason like the day before camp and they expected him to be like "well that's life". WTF?
Joe is about being a responsible journalist (wheteher they want it or not) and not about being a fan who writes fluff articles. The difference is he can write fair and balanced articles from the perspective of a journalist all the while holding a loyalty to the team. Maybe that loyalty would hold him in check when barraged by the anti-Snder crowd. Seems to me that maybe that is EXACTLY what the skins should want.
And it is contradictory to say they want a fan's prespective not a fan journalists' and then group them together when handing out passes. He is either a journalist or a fan to them and in the former case he should have gotten passes like other journalists and in the other he got screwed for no good damn reason.

As I said, I'm a fan of Joe's work and we featured it prominently on our site during mini-camp. I think the problem is also the strength you attribute to him, and it's something too few running fan sites recognize. Joe is, absolutely, able to write fair and balanced articles from the perspective of a journalist all the while holding a loyalty to the team. As am I.

The difference is, I don't want to, because, more important to me than being a journalist is being a fan. More important to Joe is being a journalist. And, the team, in seeking fans to associate with, looked for those who actually seemed to BE fans. They had all the journalists capable of being journalists they needed. They didn't need fans being the same.

FRPLG · 10-21-2005, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ExtremeArt

They had all the journalists capable of being journalists they needed. They didn't need fans being the same.

Isn't that the big problem? That they don't have journalists capable of being journalists? Isn't this one reason Extereskins was brought on? To offer an 'unfilitered' fan's view?

ExtremeArt · 10-21-2005, 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FRPLG

Isn't that the big problem? That they don't have journalists capable of being journalists? Isn't this one reason Extereskins was brought on? To offer an 'unfilitered' fan's view?

No, not really.

ES was brought on to provide fans a place to talk about the team so they wouldn't have to build it themselves

. It was our idea to bring a Fan View column where we'd attempt to put forth areas fans were discussing while at the same time taking a position on those views.

The Arrington column which many did not like because it distinctly taunted some fans, was very controversial at the Park just for the reasons I saw in this thread. Do they really want to divide fans on their official site. I actually credit them for having the guts to publish it and thank them for it.

One thing I can promise anyone who wonders, no one has sold out or altered positions based on the relationship. If the team tries to make everyone go to a single MasterCard for all payment while I have voice, you can bet they'll get absolutely hammered

. So far my natural inclination as a fan is to believe in experienced, proven coaches who set direction rather than individual players I may love. That's why I didn't weep a whole lot when we lost Smoot, who was my favorite.

joecrisp · 10-20-2005, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ExtremeArt

Unfortunately, you developed something of a negative reaction with many at Redskins Park who felt you were obtrusive and self-serving. I have heard stories about how uncomfortable you made some people with your self-promotion to them and that you were absolutely not going to be part of our efforts. I was surprised to hear this and think no less of you for having heard it...

Wow, Art. That's news to me. I don't recall ever promoting MYSELF to anyone at Redskins Park. I quite frequently promoted The Warpath around Redskins Park, as I'm sure you have promoted ExtremeSkins. I'd be interested to know who in particular was put off by my presence there and why. As I've said, I always tried to conduct myself as professionally as possible. There were some players with whom I tried to develop a better rapport in order to benefit The Warpath, but that's no different than anything any other representative would do to benefit their constituents. If they were put off by that, then someone should have told me.

You see, I was there, by myself, with no one there to guide me as to how things are supposed to work. I didn't have the benefit of a guinea pig who went before me to let me know what I should and should not do. I did my best to pass on what I had learned to TK and Tarhog, as well as the guys from TheHogs.net, when they arrived for minicamp in the spring. I really wish someone had told me to back off, if that's what was necessary. I truly thought I was being as nice and polite to everyone as I could possibly be.

ExtremeArt · 10-21-2005, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joecrisp

Wow, Art. That's news to me. I don't recall ever promoting MYSELF to anyone at Redskins Park. I quite frequently promoted The Warpath around Redskins Park, as I'm sure you have promoted ExtremeSkins. I'd be interested to know who in particular was put off by my presence there and why. As I've said, I always tried to conduct myself as professionally as possible. There were some players with whom I tried to develop a better rapport in order to benefit The Warpath, but that's no different than anything any other representative would do to benefit their constituents. If they were put off by that, then someone should have told me.

You see, I was there, by myself, with no one there to guide me as to how things are supposed to work. I didn't have the benefit of a guinea pig who went before me to let me know what I should and should not do. I did my best to pass on what I had learned to TK and Tarhog, as well as the guys from TheHogs.net, when they arrived for minicamp in the spring. I really wish someone had told me to back off, if that's what was necessary. I truly thought I was being as nice and polite to everyone as I could possibly be.

I can't really go into details due to personal trusts I've developed, but, I have been working to rehabilitate your image with those who would help me bring you into a coverage role -- had you had an interest in such -- as a primary "beat" reporter for the site given you are closer and have the experience.

I won't do that any longer, obviously, given your position as to who we are in your mind, but, I thought you should know.

That Guy · 10-21-2005, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ExtremeArt

I can't really go into details due to personal trusts I've developed, but, I have been working to rehabilitate your image with those who would help me bring you into a coverage role -- had you had an interest in such -- as a primary "beat" reporter for the site given you are closer and have the experience.

I won't do that any longer, obviously, given your position as to who we are in your mind, but, I thought you should know.

He was there for three years, you come along and he gets told the day before (after already booking rooms etc) that its a no-go, but just for him... and he's got no right to be upset?

If its been this long and he still has zero love from inside the park for whatever reasons that you won't share, I highly doubt they'd suddenly 180 now. Maybe if you clued him in before that post about anything he wouldn't seem so bad to you personally.

ExtremeArt · 10-21-2005, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by That Guy

He was there for three years, you come along and he gets told the day before (after already booking rooms etc) that its a no-go, but just for him... and he's got no right to be upset?

If its been this long and he still has zero love from inside the park for whatever reasons that you won't share, I highly doubt they'd suddenly 180 now. Maybe if you clued him in before that post about anything he wouldn't seem so bad to you personally.

At no point did I say or hint that Joe seemed bad to me personally. I have no ill-will or anger or disappointment in Joe in the slightest. I saw his post as it was sent to me to look at and I thought I'd let him know something and express my sympathy for the situation he found himself under.

As you may recall, no fan sites of any sort received camp access. We did ONLY on August 9 after the deal was solidified on August 8, up to which point we thought it would fall through. The decision to block fan sites was made long before. I think I even mentioned it on ES that we were denied access to camp some weeks prior but I don't know the time frame of that off the top of my head.

Tarhog · 10-21-2005, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joecrisp

I did my best to pass on what I had learned to TK and Tarhog, as well as the guys from TheHogs.net, when they arrived for minicamp in the spring.

Thats absolutely true, and Joe, we really appreciated it.

MTK · 10-20-2005, 11:27 PM

I just want to make it clear that I'm well aware, as I'm sure Joe is, that the piece written about ES is full of inaccuracies. I guess it just sparked off a debate is all. It still doesn't change the way we think, but again we're aware the article was a hack job.

FRPLG · 10-20-2005, 11:51 PM

I honestly wish Joe hadn't been dicked over like he was. It was wrong, ham-handed and pisses me off to no end. The guy does a commendable job year in and year out and gets nothing for it all the while hacks like DeMasio get SI jobs based on their 'hard hitting' journalism. I am pissed at Snyder and crew for this but I am not pissed that they put extremeskins reps in the press box. If Joe was there I would want him to feel as free as he pleased to cheer or not. The press shouldn't own the press box. Why do they get to decide how one acts in there? It's not theirs. It's provided to them by the team to allow them to cover the team. This arrangement is in everyone's best interest for sure since the team gets coverage (=money) and the journalists sell their product(=money) but in the end the Skins can boot their butts. They cover the team from the press box at the Skins' leisure.

FRPLG · 10-21-2005, 12:03 AM

Man we all saw these types of discussions coming when this whole deal went down didn't we?

And Exteremskins guys. I think we all appreciate you all for coming here to actually discuss this.

10-20-2005, 10:58 PM	#1
Schneed10 A Dude Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Newtown Square, PA Age: 46 Posts: 12,458	Re: The Anti-Media Media I guess to sum up my thoughts, I like the Post for it's coverage of the team when it's reporting objectively. I like the Warpath because it has, in my opinion, the smartest, most civilized, and well-educated fans, which makes for very stimulating debate and discussion. (and I LOVE the inside info you're able to get us, Joe) I like ExtremeSkins.com because when I read the column they post on Redskins.com, it always makes me feel warm and fuzzy about the Skins, even if it's biased. Some sources provide information, some sources allow for fruitful discussion, and some sources just plain make me feel good. I like them all. But I'm here at the Warpath more often than all of them.

10-20-2005, 11:20 PM	#2
BigSKINBauer Pro Bowl Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Washington, DC Age: 37 Posts: 5,688	Re: The Anti-Media Media The only two problems i have had with the extremeskins thing with the skins so far is 1. Joe got his fan reporter credits taken away --this i was seriously pissed about 2. Just a couple paragraphs in the one article posted on Redskins.com about arrington-this is such a small thing but while i agree with what the author was saying i don't think that there should be a division among fans between right and wrong. EXPECIALLY on redskins.com. I don't care if people here, at extremeskins, hogs.net, hailredskins or anyother place called a certain group of fans stupid but it being on redskins.com just erked me. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, even if the opinion is that everyone that disagrees with them are dumbasses, but it shouldn't be on redskins.com. Basically i am much more mad at the redskins than at the writer because the writer has an opinion but we are all fans and the redskins shouldn't start dividing us to build their self image(propaganda) Other than that 1 big thing about joe and that one article i love everything else. There is nothing not to like as fans as we get interviews, pictures, and media attention.

10-20-2005, 11:23 PM	#3
ExtremeArt Camp Scrub Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 12	Re: The Anti-Media Media Joe, I just wanted to say I'm sorry things didn't work out better for you. I have always promoted your work. When we were able to become part of the Redskins I even engaged in discussions to bring you on board as we needed experience and local guys to help us out since we're missing out on a lot of stuff we could be doing by being short-staffed. Unfortunately, you developed something of a negative reaction with many at Redskins Park who felt you were obtrusive and self-serving. I have heard stories about how uncomfortable you made some people with your self-promotion to them and that you were absolutely not going to be part of our efforts. I was surprised to hear this and think no less of you for having heard it. I just think it's unfortunate you have developed a negative view of us for accomplishing something you wanted to accomplish but were unable to. One thing going for us, to be fair, is the team was never looking for "fan journalists". It had all the journalists it could handle and it had all the fans it could handle. It didn't need fans acting like reporters. It wanted fans acting like fans. As you know, the "press" box is not just for "press". It's for PR folks, scouts, writers from team sites, etc. There are lots of people who are not in the professional media, with strong team ties, who are in every press box there is. The media has rules it is responsible for abiding by. A team scout isn't bound by the same. I think you know this. I hope you do. I'm sorry you feel as upset with us. We've always considered you a friend who we've promoted. We will continue to do so. With hope, you'll come to forgive us.

10-20-2005, 11:27 PM	#13
MTK \m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 52 Posts: 99,835	Re: The Anti-Media Media I just want to make it clear that I'm well aware, as I'm sure Joe is, that the piece written about ES is full of inaccuracies. I guess it just sparked off a debate is all. It still doesn't change the way we think, but again we're aware the article was a hack job.

10-20-2005, 11:51 PM	#14
FRPLG MVP Join Date: May 2004 Age: 46 Posts: 10,164	Re: The Anti-Media Media I honestly wish Joe hadn't been dicked over like he was. It was wrong, ham-handed and pisses me off to no end. The guy does a commendable job year in and year out and gets nothing for it all the while hacks like DeMasio get SI jobs based on their 'hard hitting' journalism. I am pissed at Snyder and crew for this but I am not pissed that they put extremeskins reps in the press box. If Joe was there I would want him to feel as free as he pleased to cheer or not. The press shouldn't own the press box. Why do they get to decide how one acts in there? It's not theirs. It's provided to them by the team to allow them to cover the team. This arrangement is in everyone's best interest for sure since the team gets coverage (=money) and the journalists sell their product(=money) but in the end the Skins can boot their butts. They cover the team from the press box at the Skins' leisure.

10-21-2005, 12:03 AM	#15
FRPLG MVP Join Date: May 2004 Age: 46 Posts: 10,164	Re: The Anti-Media Media Man we all saw these types of discussions coming when this whole deal went down didn't we? And Exteremskins guys. I think we all appreciate you all for coming here to actually discuss this.

The Anti-Media Media

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